Ever seen a MALE hermi?

[Elevator Man]

I had a Flo male reverse last year and produce four seeds, two of which made it up, and are currently on their third set of leaves. I posted a question for DJ Short on this (link below), and mercifully he answered quickly before he had to go off again, but I still think there's more for discussion, as I'm still fairly clueless as to why they're so valuable, and why they virtually guaranteee against hermaphroditism in future generations - presumably when a male or female plant is used...?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87460

 

[trichosaurus]

Interesting thread! I just recently had my first male SWT3 hermie. I was planning on keeping him for breeding but he became rootbound and a week later pistils were growing so I decided to toss it. I wish I would have saved it after reading this thread.

Great info from everyone.

 

[Stoned Cold]

What if the male has an average 50% influence on any given offspring. If that male exhibits any female traits, that means part of the male influence on the offspring, is actually feminine. Thus creating a significantly larger ratio of females.

I still dont know nearly enough about genetics to REALLY understand this, but I certainly think there may be some value to the research.

 

[Green Fuel]

had my first male SWT3 hermie

Very rare

The DJBB, Ganja Pasha, was growed like you and stressed like you. See the roots, never encounter an hermie who produce tons of roots like this



I must quote the quote for give my point of view. I don't known this Rev (sorry) and he have my respect for share his knownledge. It tend to be more rare with years to years.

Just remember that hermies don't have to obey the rules of inheritance and anything is possible.

Hemp who is breed for fiber is in major cases monoecious and can be breed like all other strains for bark production for example, ask Dronkers. Or like cow for milk production too. Rules of inheritance are universal and shared by all who live. Stones don't obey the rules of inheritance.

You can reverse too a monoecious state by breeding, and conversely. Herm' state can be considered as a trait like all others traits, and be managed by breeding. It's a capacity to can reverse his sex on certain triggers, or naturally.Plants don't think, they strictly apply the gencod.

Maybe i haven't understand the quote.

Some of the males in the offspring generation will "normally" carry over this tendency, but not many. Like I implied above, it's a rare thing for sure by compare to other hermie tendencies.

It exist only one herm' tendancy : the presence of both sex on only one plant. The triggers change : genetical trigger (natural hermie) or environnemental trigger (induced hermie, like the male i show). It's binary.
In both case the specimen have the same trait : hermaphrodism capacity.

The rest of the quote is about simple potential triggers.

The hermaphrodism is simply a bridge who start from dioecious state to monoecious state, and this process can be managed by breeding from all point of the line.

Certain breeder have tolerance with herm and others not. It's binary too, and more a story of human point of views than a holly knowledge.

But both are in the process and choose different ways for make theyr business or drive theyr passion. Why complicate simple things.

 

[Wannabreed]

Hey, so... A male that hermi ["naturally"; without chemicals] is a gate (super-hermi powa) to make monoecious breeding, that is easier than dioceous one, but have to deal with end bananas ?!

 

[Green Fuel]

In fact (work to eradicate monoecious state on landrace for example) female and male influence are totally equal in offspring results.

And yes, natural herm' are "super herm genitors powa", you have understanded the logic.
It's for that by experience i think it's more easy to "de-herm" a commercial strain than a landrace.

I'm not very familiar with fem' work in practice (in other cases than test work of others and have comparative experiments), but i consider it as a slow speed monoecious management way.

As you see... it's more difficult to manage herm than understand them ;o)

 

[Wannabreed]

So such hermi male can be a key to "de-herm" ... but also an horrible thing ...
Something like

(hermi male) X (hermi female) => Seeds with high females ratio, lowering the hermi "trait".

On the other using it with a strongly gendered variete would ....

(hermi male) X (relatively pure female) => Seeds with high females ratio but all are hermies now ...

???

 

[Green Fuel]

(herm male x herm female) tend to produce the same offspring than (herm male x pure female). Herm gain always the battle in open pollenisation, if it can be usefull for your mind. See the Zamal and a lot of africaan strains for it.

In all case, if you use an herm' for your couple, the offspring is a additionnal step to monoecious state.

The day you find a female or a male who don't respond to nitrate, you have find a "super pure female/male powa" who can reverse the herm state by a backcross for example...or a false dominant ratio in a generation (75% of clone 25% of normal offspring selected)

The female/male ratio is directly induced by the pollen used. Each grain is female, male or "both".

Build very good herm who never declare is possible too.
It is very simple to explore and verify in 4 generations (SOG : ~8 months) : buy a fem' strain known as a rockstable strain, breed it with triggers and see the offspring ratios acceleration = a dragster to monoecious strain state.

 

[Wannabreed]

Another great post infos Green Fuel !
But im surprised to know that there can exist [horrible english] a female that would not respond to silver, are you sure about that ? ^^ And why use silver on males ?
Nb: just popped out a thread in grow forum.

 

[Green Fuel]

Sweet discuss i find too, and your english is clear for me.

Yes, it exist female/male who are not suitable for reverse. Fem' producers have problems sometimes with it. The female specimen reversed carry all the offspring results too.
In a same line you can find a female who produce crap fem' seeds and an another female who produce high grade fem' seeds, not experienced by myself as a breeder but as a customer. It dig big difference certain time from a fem seedbank to another fem seedbank. I talk about that with fem' producer too.

Understand the choice of the female is as important than dosage of reverse product (in common A/B like World of Seeds sell for example) and the temperature in this case.

Silver on male? The same way than female bro', but inversed. Male are not so current than growers think in ratio. The choice can be very limited certain time.
I look this thread.

 

[guest123]

i found many males can and will reverse , most folks destroy males at sight , so never really see the full matured plant .. when u grow a lot to maturity youll see quite a few will attempt to be female also ,, it doesnt seem that rare ...
i dont think it stops your plants becoming hermie ,, it seems to increase the rate of females from what ive seen ,, though it does not hermie proof them ,,, anything that has intersexed genes seems to show them when stressed from what i have seen anyhow ..
others may have found different ,, but you always have to consider the amount of plants grown ... a limited amount is not considered a good test subject ...
id say reverse hermies are not really good breeding stock , and one would need to fully test a male before considering it breeding material ,, .. its not always the female plants that cause the intersexing traits of the progeny ...

 

[Green Fuel]

Wallyduck ...the ducksfoot. Have all my respect, man.

Five years ago i try to reproduce your idea with pure sativa and totally fail... the smoke was the baddest i have cross in my stoner life.I stop the project.


I must agree to the fact that male are not well known by majority. I known only one place where i can see the fully flowered male of breeders, and i can't name it lol

Lot of people forget the male is 50% of the heritage, i must agree.

In my mind, the minimum amount of plants for judge a genotype is simply 100. Because you can make in ease a %.

have my best wally

 

[Wannabreed]

So your guys said that the silver nitrat can be used to reverse males...

I though the silver was used only for females due the fact it "break" the ethylen production from plant that would reverse like a stress
Though is more natural to stress as female and become male but not vice-versa ...
Though ethylen gaz or why not more advanced product ("giberellins" ?) would be used to reverse a male

Maybe though broke ^^

Ty for the infos all my best guyz

 

[Stoned Cold]

,, it seems to increase the rate of females from what ive seen ,,..

Thanks for your feedback! I agree with nearly your whole post.
If I can find the means to do it; I'd like to BX a line from a couple heavily hermed males to the same stable mom like:

male herm x mom= high femininity amongst offspring...Find a hermed male amongst this offspring and run back into mom. Repeat this a few times, and I believe we COULD end up with a feminised varietyof cannabis? Am I wrong? Why or why not?

 

[guest123]

well i guess u would have to do the test to see if u are right or wrong ,,
but as i mentioned it would have to be large test numbers to be able to see if any real change had occured ..
also that hermie females may not always come from the mother , the father will also be passing those traits , u could be further compounding the problem by backcrossing ...

 

[Don Cotyle]

I haven't seen where anyone has mentioned their may be LRS (Land Race Strain) somewhere in that strains lineage! LRS's usually self pollenate the females and show a few bannanas late in flowering stage to continue their lineage. I've seen males that act as the original photo...male plant showing female pistles to self pollinate. This was from a Moly Moly strain cultivated for thousands of years by the Ashanti Tribe in East Africa. The resulting seeds were 85% female self pollinating approximatly 40-50 seeds per plant!

Here's a shot with approximatly 75% of the hairs turned before this bannana opened!!



Hope this helps, Don

 

[BudLove]

Wow - this thread has blossomed! Perhaps should be moved over to the Strains section eh?

Either way - this is a Serious Seeds Chronic male - grown from seed in soil. No deficiencies, nice and healthy, however my methods for keeping it away from the ladies may have been the stressing factor.

I basically keep it in its own room, using light from a nearby window to basically keep it alive and slowly growing. I manually cover it with a 5gal bucket taped up with panda paper....

SO... it's light times are never the same - sometimes from 7am-5pm, sometimes 9am-7pm... dark periods are just as random, but never go less than 12 hours.

Light strength is pretty low since it's just sunlight through a window... I've recently added a cfl to help boost it's growth.


To add to the weirdness... it has had quite a few flowers bloom and fall off - but NO POLLEN from what I can see!

hahah...

Either way - if I CAN get some pollen, I'm going to use it to pollinate a portion of another SER chronic I have (female/not hermi). I'll label these as test seeds along with any that actually form on the male itself.

I grow small for personal use only, so it's not like even if these seeds turn out to be hermi's that it'll shut down a 300 plant grow...haha

 

[Whatever]

I hear what you're saying Wally and this is an interesting subject for sure. I know Rolan does pretty thorough testing on his fems and guys and will not hesitate to trash something less than desirable. From what I understand the he/she Cherry Hemmingway changed to a full blown fem and would not go male again. I wish the grower that gave me the beans had a different fem going than Purple Meteor. Don't know much except it's a clone only, will veg very slowly but is pretty good smoke. It is what it is though. At the least it'll be interesting to play with these beans someday.

 

[Whatever]

ya ive seen a few crazy things rev has written some good some bad

I'm sorry...you're right man. Here's a pic of a C99 at 45 days from seed grown 100% organics in soil. Hopefully Rev will get it right someday.

 

[Green Fuel]

In all cases, it appear all right. Nice shape and regular leafs !