Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Thread

[guest123]

ha wally i think many aussies don't relise what there holding and growing in short a lot that don't log on to canna sites don't think the sativas they are growing are basically going the way of the dodo.

I did not know this my self until i started to read and work things out from 2002 and on so.

I know there are many sats from all over the world still being grown here only thing we can do is basically collect shear and educate the others that don't understand or know about strain loss and how valuable some of the lines there holding and growing are.

couldnt agree more delai ,, some very valuable genetics here that need preserving , and your right ,, most of the folks holding them have no idea of their importance ... guess at some point one of us will have to attempt a save the aussie sativa campaign ... lol ...

 

[Guest]

well I gotta chime in here. I don't know that electro is wrong but I certainly disagree with him.

its anyones guess what might've happened but this is my guess.

1) they aren't growing the faster genetics pure because they aren't accustomed to the local climate. You've gotta realise a vast majority of the marijuana grow regions of mexico are flowering plants small. if you ever see pictures of mexican marijuana commercial fields they look like jamaica. similiar flower seasons. The indicas are too small, and get screwed up in the heat and humidity. a direct hybrid is still probably too indica or perhaps has uneven flower times.

IMHO most are probably 25% indica. or less nowadays. Years ago they crossed them. then crossed them back to the original stock they liked. shortening the flower time, getting bigger easier to trim buds, smaller easier to hide plants, and they acclimated in the process.

Also don't forget how much seeds weigh. if its expected in the weed you sell as long as it isn't too seedy that adds alot of weight per lb. (and ironically sensi mexi doesn't seem to command much higher price unless its better quality anyway; not adjusted for seed weight)

They don't have to worry about killin EVERY male, just 90% of them. plus the variety of seeds assures they'll have plants that do what they want.

people don't realize but alot of mexi pot is highly adapted. I have one that I'm pretty sure is adapted to either being grown under thick canopy or in mountain crevaces. heat doesn't hurt it but more than a couple hours of light and the leaves wilt. its really weird. if you didn't know better you'd think it was just bunk but its great for fringes of lights or under trees.

but I don't think hardly any of it is dutch and certainly not feminized. what indicas have been there I think have been there since they came. the regular old indicas of the late 80's early 90s. the super cheap indicas nobody thinks about much anymore. viking (top 44), hollands hope, the first skunks. stuff like that.

but in the world of mexican commercial pot. honestly... who knows?

Having travelled in south eastern Mexico, I can tell you that I never saw a single plant that could have been called an indica. I never visited a farmer's crop, but did see a couple of small family patches and they are growing wild sativas, it was March and they weren't flowering, but they were definitely not indica.

Motaco is dead right about the Dutch genes beign a pinch 20 years ago. In the late 80s and early 90s, verious Colombians and Mexicans turned up in Amsterdam with the sole mission of buying thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of seeds. So if you wanna know what genes they introduced, look at what was commercially the money makers back then - stuff like Viking, Top55, Holland's Hope and various Skunks like motaco says.

If what I've read is correct, the intense marijuana cultivation in Mexico is in the north or the Pacific coastal mountains - Oaxacan. Michoacan etc. I know for a fact that the indigenous marijuana in Merida and Quintana Roo in the SE is tall, thin-leaved and very sativa, and there had never been much large scale cultivation is this area so I doubt much foreign genes ever made it to this area of Mexico, indicas would just rot I reckon, much of the year it;s way too humid, it s mostly jungle in this region afdter all. I saw wild sativas growing in swampland, no indica could grow there, far too wet and humid and hot.

 

[Herbalistic]

Very good points GP

I dont know shit about Mexican mj, so take my following thoughs with healthy sceptism, just trying to throw ideas and speculate, I seriously think we can accomplish something when all of us think different possibilities, combined with the experiences some of us have..

What I do think is that those indicablood plants that motaco is talking about are growed for export & cash -> imho! The classic Mexican oldschool sativa´s, that many of us think are most likely still growed by indigenous people in regions GP was talking about!

So get to the point Herbalistic!!!!

-> I think these "small" family batches/gardens are going to be consumed inside family & relatives, if something is left after that they sell it locally, but most likely this stuff will never get exported. I believe these are the real jewels of Mexican marijuana and these "little" family gardens hide some real exotic varieties, that maybe are even growed for spiritual purposes

^That^ said, those gardens are most likely the best place´s to find authentic & rare Mexican varieties, only problem is the amount of connections that seedhunters have....

What you guys think about upper area´s like Zacatecas? I personally believe there should be interesting growers off the beaten track, you "just" have to find them & make friends with them to get them release their family "jewels" -> IMHO!!!

Take notice people that I really dont know shit about the situation in Mexico, this is just pure speculation and anyone with better/confident info can correct me

Thank for the K+ Wally & l33t, really appreciated from guys like you

 

[asher1er]

Asher!!

That looks AWESOME!! Is all that haze? what strain?

I wanna dive in there but that wouldn't be a very good move LOL!!!

Pedro

Pedro, yeah they are all haze. as far as strain i could'nt tell you. Its a strain thats been in the South East for many many years grown by specific people. No def don't dive in there, you can once i chop them down lol

 

[thc43]

I put this plant outside last week here at 4/5 week and shes now pumping out seed but flowering well, i havnt had males around for a while so im left watching closely hermi alert.





More Bagseed from a very strong stoney bud a mate gave to me last week

 

[Herbalistic]

Shouldn't a Mexican Sativa show the same characteristics?More and more of my brickweed is coming out to be hybrids.I'm working with a landrace now that sadly is showing hybridization.A longflowering landrace (150+ days flower)that only has medium potency,but a unique stellar high,if cured for a long time.Creeper affect,about 20-30 minutes before I start feeling it.Slightly psychedelic,with slight visual distortions etc.It begins with larger leaves,and ends with skinny leaves.

The other end of the spectrum,is a 60 day variety,Non-skunky,in your
face,soaring buzz straight from the microwave.No cure necessary,though it will increase potency.Great high,but not psychedelic the way I like it.No flavor btw,not even hay.Which is a question itself;lack of scent= lack of flavor??
The Landrace after a curebviously,small yeilds,but worth every month of time.


The closest I can come to open polinate this line is with one male and 4 females.One longflowering landrace type,one fast type and two intermediates.
Bottleneck in other words.
My question is,if farmers have access to new,faster genetics,why aren't they growing them pure?Why hybridize with a longflowering,possibly equitorial variety?I thought the idea behind hybridization is faster plants,one more harvest,more annual income to feed the family with.Obviously,quality,or type of high is of no concern,though they do still manicure the buds before pressing or bricking.
And,since they also have to produce seed for the next crop,aren't they taking a huge chance considering they can't know what their gonna get from the hybridized seed?Or,if they are purchasing seed,why are they purchasing a hybridized landrace which they prolly already had???Obviously,I'm really confused about this.Thanks
Peace

Like I previously have stated, I have no experience recarding Mexican cannabis plants....

However, many have reported Mexican plants growing wider leaves in veg and gettin thinner & thinner as the flowering starts & progress!

I wouldnt say that lack of odor (scent?) in landrace erb would mean it doesnt have desired qualities, like potency & type of high. Good example I just figured is this Peruvian Rojó sativa I got the honor to get some grams some time back.. The plants were growed by friend that other friend did bring back from Peru, he collected them seeds from some mountain district, so high altitude cultivar for sure. Rojó lacked on odor section with very little citrus type of tones. When breaked she released more of the same scent(?), but not overhelmingly like so many modern strains do.. What she lacked was potency right after harvest, luckily I was aware of the need of cure when dealing with landrace erb, so I put most of the Rojó buds into jars to cure. After cure it was like smokng way different erb!! It has reached it´s real potency & type of high! This erb produced the most headiest & clearest, uplifting & energitizing effect I have ever experienced

Since then, I have hunted erb like that.. I got two immature white seeds from little pollen escaping drama friend had, before he culled pollenating Rojó plants..

Here´s couple pics of that erb, more pics can be found on the smokereport I did:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=56353

Sorry for recycling these old pics again..






I really do hope this Swazi im currently growing would have similar qualities with Rojó. I have heared so mixed reports considering Swazi that dont know what to expect anymore, I quess the only real way would be to let the plants tell it! Plants dont disagree, or nether do they agree, they just "reveal" what they have to offer

Btw, I would cross that long flowering, pure sativa charastetics showing Mexican of your with similar male and try to isolate those "pure" plants, but that´s me

 

[Guest]

I think Herbalistic is right, there are still plenty of little patches of old sativas in Mexico, hell, Merida and Quintana Roo are covered in wild cannabis, it's everywhere, it is a weed after all!

As for further north, Zacatecas, the Sierra Madre range, I'd say stay the hell away from there, it is far too dangerous, there is open warfare there between the cartels and the army and asking folks about cannabis there will probably be a good way to meet a nasty painful death, life is very, very cheap in Mexico, I never felt 100% safe and I was in possibly the safest part ofthe country. Guatemala was fucking scary, and looking back I was fucking stupid to go there on my own,The people are lovely, some of the warmest, kindest and friendly souls I have ever met, but the poverty is harsh and there are many people who will kidnap or kill you in a heartbeat, hell if I was poor as dirt and my family were too, and a fat wealthy American tourist walked past with a fat wallet in his pockt I;d do what I needed to support my family and take that wallet, so easy to see how someone could have looked at me the same way although I tried hard to look more like a down-at-heel hippy than a wealthy gingo and it worked, stinking of ganja also helped methinks! LOL

 

[hardhat22]

see these fields..... but you see the plants are alot different than what alot of people picture for mexi sats.

Yea,you got me on that one.And now I know why so much of our bagseed did so poorly,LOl.We would allow a runt like those in the pictures to quietly fade away.I only tended the ones that grew shoulder high or more.Now I know those runts were right on track.Crap,wonder how many "runts" I let fade away during the 80's?Lol.I had the wrong picture in mind about Mexican commercial.Thanks alot Motaco.

@ ElecroSticky.About the skunk.I'm not sure if I grew it in the 80's as herbs were not named other than their geographic origins,Jamaican,Hawaaian,Columbian,etc.There were powerful skunky smells for sure occasioanally,but the Hawaaians were the sweet or (bad memory,perhaps) fruity ones,and the seed highly sought after.But are we talking about original skunk or Sams skunk?Sorry for incessant questioning,but I was told of a skunk variety in these parts long before I saw photos of Sams skunk in high times.Somehow I think they are 2 different varieties.I think Zamalito stated elsewhere that the original skunk didn't smell of skunk.

@Herbalistic.Perpetual confusion sucks,Lol.I thought Punto Roja (Red Point?)was Mexican.Beautiful example of the types we see here.With long chains of calyxes rather than clumps of florets.He may correct me,but I think Ganja Pashas El Yucateca grew these chains of calyxes.I had plans for a Punta Roja this year but alas,looks like it won't happen unless I can find another seedbank that has it,and can actually get it to me,heh.I really need to go have a look at Charlies stuff anyway as he shows pics of wonderful looking Sativas.
Peace and thanks to everyone for their knowledge.

(Edit)Here is a pic of one of my Mexicans that grows strings of calyxes,though I can't remember any lemony scent or flavor.Think it has the average menthalatum smell when I rub a stem.Notice how the red hairs are in lines?Some of these calyx strings grew to be about 10 inches in length and were so light and fragile.

 

[motaco]

@hardhat. nice broomstick mexican seen alot of them. But what do you mean by runts? because those smaller plants like in the pics are still capable of growing tall if given a long veg. did you mean you were flowering them with just a lil veg time and only keepin tall ones? because yeah you could miss some good ones like that for sure. But there is also DEFINITELY alot of runts in mexi brick.

@dalai. in the particular instance of of chihuhua field you may be right. lack of water may have helped keep them small. thats more northern mexico. but most of mexico's major weed growing spots stay small just because of the photoperiod I think.


@ the rest of the guys. I think I should've made myself more clear in my earlier post when I said "what indicas are there have been there..."

what I meant wasn't that the indicas are being grown there now, there are hardly any. what I meant is the indica contained within the hybrids that are growing there now are probably top 44, shiva etc. what it was when it was brought. not that its still being grown there now as an indica crop if you know what I mean. Only that those are probably the strains that make up the indica percentage of the sativa hybrids available now.

@JJ. yeah those cottom mouths are bastards. they are really slow moving but stike very fast. since they are so slow moving they tend to just hide instead. makes them dangerous. But I wear snake boots and shoot them with a rubber blunt arrow. hit them good with sticks before I take the machete too them. I need two matching young ones or one big pretty old one. the bow is 64in long so one 6ft cotton mouth would certainly be easiest. but they usually lose alot of color by then.

 

[Guest]

Punta Roja (Red Point I think) is from Colombia, but many have speculated that it's a modern variety rather than a decades old heirloom cultivar, I think dubi said it's a modern variety unrelated to the old taditional Colombia Reds.

El Yucateca most certainly does grow strongs of calyxes, it's not so obvious in pictures though as the strongs are so fat and the calyxes so large that they have a much chunkier, more solid look that many foxtailed plants, but having spent a lot of time studying her as she developed through flowering, she definitely has a classic sativa foxtail bud structure. She's like Marilyn Monroe - a bit of a fat lass but still stunning! lol

As to why those Mexican plants are small - it's because it's a cultivated crop grown that way, you cannot judge indigenous Mexican genetics by those grows as they are grown in a particular way to maximise profit, if grown according to the natural seasons - planted in March, harvested in November/December, those plants would be a whole lot bigger. I have no pics of Mexico, I didn't take any valuables such as a digicam out of the hotel apart from when on a guided tour, it woulddn't have been too smart to go the places I did with a nice hunk of electronics slung around the neck and a wad of cash in the pocket. I went in a beaten up old shirt, a pair of old combat pants cut off as shorts and a battered Panama hat, all my money was in pesos, not dollars and I didn't have much on me, just what I neede that day and I had it split up into a couple of bills here and there literally all over my person - even under the insoles of my sandals and in the band of my hat as the idea of being robbed and left penniless in some sweltering flyspeck of a Mexican village didn't appeal to me one bit, but I can tell you that the wild plants I saw were 75% tall, thin-leaves and sativa, I was there for a month in 2004 (October/Novmeber) and another month in 2005 (March/April) and in 04 I saw hundreds of 12-15 feet sativas, not fields of plants, just clumps at roadsides, on vacant lots, all over the place as it's a wild weed in those parts and grows everywhere. I was with non-smoking friends on that trip and had to do he tourist thing most of the time, but driving around I saw loads of plants. I went back on my own a few months later and had a better exploration of the inland and less traveled parts, I used the local buses to get around and properly mingled into the culture, but silly me, wrong time of year to see wild plants and I saw few plants on that trip as it's much harder to spot a 2-3 foot young plant than a 15 foot sativa swinging in the breeze at the side of a rural road like I saw in 04. Several times I asked to stop and investigate, but they refused to through fear of ending up in a Mexican jail. I did manage to snaffle some wild buds though and laid them out to dry but one of my friends flipped when he saw them and made me toss em, which was damn annoying.

However, if anyone has Lawrence Cherniak's books, in one of them there is a picture of the main pyramid at Chichen Itza sometime in the 70s and in the foreground is a huge wild sativa, that plant is a very good indication of the plants I saw. I went to Chichen Itza and stood in the same exact spot Cherniak must have done to take that picture and I can tell you with 100% certainty there is no cannabis within a mile of that pyramid these days as it's a national park these days and tourists trample round it in their thousands every day, the Mexican govt have cleared the entire site of all undergrowth, just leaving a sparse covering of small trees for shade, the ground is bare and baked hard, but I am sure that the surroundign jungle will still be teeming with wild cannabis plants, but it would be a foolhardy person to go wandering into that jungle to look for such plants as the Yucatan peninsula s home to over 50 species of snake, all of them deadly poisonous, many species of poisonous spiders, poisonous toads, poisonous scorpions, massive iguanas and other lizards, huge alligators in the swampy parts, it's friggin dangerous, if you were to slip and break your ankle you would be done for, you couldn't call the emergency services, no-one would find you (for a few days at least) and by nightfall you would be dead, eaten alive by ants if something bigger didn't snack on you first. My grandfather told me all about having to burn the leeches off the end of his cock many times a day with a cigarette when he was in Burma so I have no illusions that the jungle is no place for someone like me to go, even someone like Ray Mears would think twice about entering the jungle alone.

What has happened in this region of Mexico is that in the 70s, the Mexican government did a survey of the whole country to find the best place to build a new holiday resort specifically to attract US holidaymakers. They cose an extremely remote lagoon on the tip of the mostly uninhabited, jungle-covered Yucatan peninsula. They name that resort Cancun and it became a huge success right away, the Yankees and their dollars came in droves. Of course, in order to create the resort and make the area suitable for Yankee tourists they had to carry out an eradication program to get rid of the abundant wild cannabis, if the area down hear the guatemalan border is anything to go by, Cancun was once absolutely thriving with cannabis! Before Cancun was built there was only the old city of Valladolid and a few small fishing villages like Playa Del Carmen in this region. Chichen Itza is but one of many ancient sites in this area, it;s so remote and innaccessible that somewhere as huge and monolithic as Chichen Itza could be lost in the jungle for centuries. The road from Cancun to Valladolid inland is a straight line, they had to bring EVERYTHING for the resort in by sea and then they just drove a bulldozer in a straight line all the way to Valladolid and the inland foothills. The actual Yucatan peninsula is just one big, flat, inhospitable stinking jungle, these days there are pockets of population and Cancun town and resort, so there is a local population, but upto the late 70s there was nothing there apart from jungle and the odd fishing village on the coast apart from long abandoned ruined cities. At that time, if you went to any of the little towns and villages of this region, you would have seen large amounts of cannabis being consumed openly and big wooden boxes of dried cannabis openly on display at every market, there are some good pictures in Cherniak's book. It would still be that way if it weren't for the building of Cancun and the influx of US tourists. However, given that 90% of the region remains undeveloped, there will still be huge populations of wild cannabis, but to go find it, it would take much more than a hire car, guidebook, phrasebook and handful of dinero like Cherniak had to go and find it. All he had to do was head down to the region with his camera and everything was right there on display for all to see, buy smoke and enjoy.

Mexico is probably the wrong place to go looking though, it's had far too much US influence to still be the marijuana-friendly place it used to be, sure you can buy weed anywhere and most locals won't bat an eyelid if you wander by smoking a joint, but the eradication programmes have driven the plants from the public places, I'm sure that in other Latin American countries with less US influence (and most importantly, less US tourists) is a better place to go looking for indigenous cannabis. Peru, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Paraguay, Chile, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia, Uruguay, Argentina, you don't hear much about these places, I left out Nicaragua, Colombia, Panama and Brazil as I know those are far too dangerous for gringos, but I'm sure there are other, safer countries to visit in the region that will still have abundant populations of wild cannabis.

I'm of the opinion that with the global nature of the internet and the fact that there are growers from Latin America on this forum and other places, it would be better to establish relationships with these local growers and obtain germplasm that way than to travel there and look yourself, in many places a gringo stranger turning up and asking questions about how marijuana is grown locally will probably find himself in grave danger of losiing his life.

 

[3dDream]

I thought you guys would enjoy this. I find it interesting.

This is from an interview w/ Robert Connell Clarke.
http://www.norml.org.nz/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=588

You've done a bit of research on the origins of cannabis. Is the difference between indica and sativa as simple as thin and fat leaves?

There is some new genetic based work by Karl Hillig at Indiana University, trying to work out the taxonomy of Cannabis. The main thing, is that all that Cannabis Sativa really should represent, is the narrow leaf hemp varieties from Western Europe which spread to a few other places like Chile and possibly New Mexico, and everything else should be called Cannabis Indica. I’m now using this new system - until some taxonomist changes it again!

What changed the system?

Looking at the direct gene products of cannabis. The gene technology as well as looking at cannabinoid data, THC, terpene data and other plants.

So are we smoking any Sativa at all these days?

Actually we don’t smoke sativas, it is all indicas. All the rest of the world’s hemp, drug, medical, seed and other varieties should most likely be called the indica variety. There are four different subgroups of indica that are now recognised. Cannabis Indica Biotype Afghanica is what we call Indica now. Cannabis Indica Biotype Chinensis is broad-leafed hemp from China, Japan & Korea. Cannabis Indica Spontania is from North India, Nepali, Burma. These were called the drug sativas but are now better called Cannabis Indica Indica. Cannabis Indica Caferus Anacus may represent the wild “feral” types that the other domesticated subgroups came from.

To make it easier we should just go back to what they look like. Let’s forget about where they come from. We should call what we think of as hemp from Europe, as Narrow leafed hemp. The other hemp is Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Northern Vietnam. These are broad-leafed hemp. They are not as low in THC or as high in CBD (cannabidiol) as the European ones but they are not drugs. And then you have the two drug cannabis gene pools which would be narrow leafed drug high THC varieties - Indian , Nepali, Thai, Indonesian, African, Mexican and Columbian, with narrow leafs and high THC . Afghan varieties which are now called Indica, erroneously, should be called Broad leafed drug varieties . Now of course we have hybrids of narrow and brood leafed but no hybrids of Sativa, the narrow leafed hemp. So actually the only true Indica-Sativa hybrids are hemp, and what people smoke are all Indicas.

 

[hardhat22]

@hardhat. nice broomstick mexican seen alot of them. But what do you mean by runts?

Been many moons since I heard the term broomstick Mexicans,Lol.I had forgotten it.Yea,we had many runts from mexican brick back in the day get to about 2 ft. and just stop and stare back at me,Lol.Now,indoors,I'm hunting those runts.It didn't occur to me that those photos were of a short season crop.

...eaten alive by ants if something bigger didn't snack on you first.

Thanks.That'll really help me with my insomnia problem.
Very informative post thanks alot man.Honestly if I had a chance I could spend months in Mexico just studying and photagraphing the different wild varieties.Of course it would help to compare the cultivated varieties against the wild and see the percentange of similarities.Ok,that would take years.But a guy can dream right?I'm off to google Lawrence Cherniak.Thanks again.
Peace

 

[motaco]

@british. the plants will grow tall if untended and allowed to reveg and reflower just as in jamaica. but I assure you they grow to that stately height naturally because of the photoperiod. just as in jamaica and other caribbean islands. its simply latitude.

even lou in florida has 3 harvests per year which stifles how tall a plant will grow and flower at in a year. And of course the further south you go until you get to the opposite side of the equator is the same. I truly sit on the dividing line of photoperiods. just a few hundred miles more south and its tropical photoperiod.

@hardhat. yeah they have some shorter powerhouse plants. but just be careful they sure can be easily confused with runts. I'd be wary of keepin the little fellas. I always just aim for tall with sativa leaves and tight internodes.

 

[Herbalistic]

Oh so much good information in so little time...

hardhat: The Rojó I posted pictures of is not related with Punto Rojó! Punto Rojó is authentic Colombian variety, not Mexican like GP did friendly clarify before me...

 

[DoubleJ]

GP, dont write off Brasil.

Had the best couple months of my life there, including spending time in the favelas. Plenty decent weed to be found, although the bud I got there was always bricked and seedless. Venezuela is a lot more dangerous, Caracas is not a nice place at all.

 

[Guest]

Caracas certainly is hell, one of my closest friends was murdered on the street there a few years ago.

Brazil is a big place, but places like Sao Paolo are very dangerous, kidnappings and killings there are turning it into a hellhole, corruption is the big problem throughout Brazil, from what I'm told.

Thanks for the info on photoperiod Motaco, not sure how the Mexican plants have adapted to the latitude (all cannabis in Mexico was introduced post-Columbus) and I don't know when the plants sprout, when they flower, when they are ripe etc. More study is needed, definitely!

 

[hardhat22]

I thought you guys would enjoy this. I find it interesting.

This is from an interview w/ Robert Connell Clarke.
http://www.norml.org.nz/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=588

Thanks alot.Thats very interesting and confusing at the same time.He is stating that,if we get a buzz from it,it's an indica.If we don't it's a sativa????And there is no such thing as a sativa hybrid.Not sure how to process that little bit of info.
Peace

 

[motaco]

yeah I'm not sure exactly how it works myself. I think in the most northern reaches of mexico they still flower annually, but I'm not positive on that.

but a good bit of it is a tropical photoperiod.

and I have seen mexi bagseed that pretty much refused to flower. It may well have been adapted to growing through the photoperiod and ripening for winter.

 

[Guest]

Even Rob Clarke isn't sure how it works, our understanding is not yet complete, let's just agree it's a lot more complicated than the traidtional indica, sativa, ruderalis, hemp view. Eventually they will fully map the cannabis genepool and develop a proper, complete scientific taxonomy (hopefully without lots of Latin names!)

Motaco, i've also seen Mexicans that refused to flower, grown some myself, El Yuc is possibly a lucky pheno as her two sisters were didn't flower the same, they were very similar in veg, had the same structure, smell, etc. the differences were in their flower formation, El yuc grew obese, dense colas of foxtail fat-ass calyxes, there was a similar female that had similar buds that were almost as dense but about 50% lower calyx to leaf ratio. The third female didn't flower properly and produced huge colas like the other two, but they were ocmposed f lots of leaf and just strings of small calyxes spaced a quarter inch apart on very thin wispy stems, simialr to other sativas I;ve grown that wouldn't flower indoors at all well.

Perhaps El Yuc is a polluted variety - polluted with Dutch genes from the 80s, but much inbred since then and El Yuc is just got a bit of added influence from the commercial geness, resulting in a plant that is a bit faster, a lot higher yielding and much shorter than many pure sativas from this latitude. The other females were possibly more towards the pure Mexican sativa side, which accounts for their poorer results under lights.

Dunno, it's all specualtion, but I can safely say El yuc is a superb plant to grow and smoke and I love her dearly, she's been passed on to a few folks and is soon to passed on to more, so one day I hope to see someone else's El Yuc in this thread so we can get another viewpoint. Elevator Man already grew an El Yuc cut, but he got a wierd expression that i totally at odds with the reuslts I've had, I am keen to see if anyone else's El yuc turns out much different than mine, mayb the genetics are easily altered in expreesion by environment? I'm hoping EM gets an Oaxacan male and we can cross it to the El Yuc to kmake a pure Mexican line.

 

[Elevator Man]

Ganja Pasha - both the Oaxacans went into flower last night, but I'm fairly certain both are female...

By the way, here's the three 'Mexico' pages from Cherniak's book - Vol 2, the weed one - can't see the pic of the pyramid you mention though...?