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Refusing Knock & Talk's?
- Thread starter whodi
- Start date
EasyBakeIndica
Member
Americans don't let police into their homes, without a warrant, even if they have nothing to hide.
If you throw away your rights, and open your home to the police, no one can help you. You screwed yourself.
If you throw away your rights, and open your home to the police, no one can help you. You screwed yourself.
KnottyDollar
Member
Exactly, ask what they want through the door. If its a noise complaint tell them you will keep it down. If they say they smell pot, tell them you smell nothing and to go away you will not open the door until they have a warrant.
EasyBakeIndica
Member
KnottyDollar said:
Why say anything to them?
You have the right to remain silent.
Make them do the work.
B
British_Bulldog
whodi said:
What happens? They try to persuade you to open the door.
Even if it's well hidden, NEVER let them in - once you do that, you have given them access to ALL the house, and they can search anywhere they like, and for as long as they like....believe me, they WILL find it.
Regarding opening the door in the first place, that's a subject of debate, and more can be read in the other big threads in the Security forum.
Peace
S
sneakyninja
If there is no warrant and you give permission to search its very similar to a warrant. You can specify, I give you permission to search this floor/room etc. only and then that is what they can search. You can also say "I retract my permission for you to enter and search, effective immediately, please leave my property now or it will be considered trespassing and an improper search.
The key is to make sure you are very clear in everything you say. That said, if it was me there is no way I would be allowing them in at all. Step outside and close the door behind you, with a reason for doing so (not let dog out etc.) ready.
The key is to make sure you are very clear in everything you say. That said, if it was me there is no way I would be allowing them in at all. Step outside and close the door behind you, with a reason for doing so (not let dog out etc.) ready.
Last edited:
Ok, I agree with what you all say.
However, how bout we come up with some scenario's.. excuses that cops use, excuses as to why you won't let the cop in, etc..
What happens if they say some shit like "well i smell pot and im gonan get a warrant and have a patrol car sit outside your house until i do."
What happens if they come, but leave.. cause they don't have a warrant.. should you tear down immediately?
We've all heard the saying "if you refuse to let them search, then that sends a red flag and the cops go crazy"
However, how bout we come up with some scenario's.. excuses that cops use, excuses as to why you won't let the cop in, etc..
What happens if they say some shit like "well i smell pot and im gonan get a warrant and have a patrol car sit outside your house until i do."
What happens if they come, but leave.. cause they don't have a warrant.. should you tear down immediately?
We've all heard the saying "if you refuse to let them search, then that sends a red flag and the cops go crazy"
whodi said:
Theres only one way to properly refuse a knock-and-talk and thats by not answering the door.
As soon as you open the door the cop can say anything from they smelled MJ to they heard someone scream in distress .. any and all probable cause reasons give them the right to enter without a warrant.
Any other scenario has you playing the imaginary role of lawyer/cop/judge/jury while being the stoner victim. You can think it all you want but I guarantee you that a lawyer, cop, judge and jury are going to think different than you and your still going to end up screwed after the fact.
p.s. the only perfectly hidden growroom is one that isnt on your property.
A
Azeotrope
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that a claim of smelling mj is not probable cause in most states if not all. At least not according to my 3 family members that are practicing attourneys. Of course they do not know what I do, but I did slip in the hypothetical over dinner last year. They said that there needs to be some harder evidence than a claim of "smelling pot" as it is not an exact science.
SomeGuy
668, Neighbor of the Beast
Azeotrope said:
Depends on whether theres a precedence set in your state and how your judge rules on it. They can either allow or deny it and even set their own precedent contrary to previous rulings. You are at the mercy of the judge hearing the case.
Like Verite said, like my lawyer has told me, DON"T OPEN THE DOOR!!!!! Just ignore them, don't ask questions through the door, don't step out and lock the door behind you, don't try to slip out the back and meet them in the front, just ignore them and they will go away.
What you do after they leave is entirely up to you, but my ass is going to be tearing down.
Azeotrope said:
Therein lies most of the problem.. what people 'think' is not the same as what the laws are. All cops are trained with confiscated contraband to know what bagged marijuana and burning marijuana smells like. This is all they need to answer a judge or your lawyer to that question. Easy mistake if all your atty's are family law rather than criminal.
You may want to toss another hypothetical at them cause smelling marijuana is used as probable cause in all the states in any situation whether it be a traffic stop in a car or their favorite legal method of circumventing your rights as the knock and 'talk'.
I would be more than interested to read a case where it was thrown out after a cop used smelling weed as probable cause to enter a house without a warrant and found marijuana.
Ajunta Pall
Member
Azeotrope said:
Go to the NORML website. There you will see the truth. That it is probable cause to enter vehicles and dwellings on smell. And no it is not an exact science. See MJ Odor Preception article.
Best to do what Easy Bake said, and don't let a cop in your home w/o a warrant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
krustytheclown
Member
FWIW, the US Supreme Court just ruled that even if you are arrested improperly or on an unrelated charge, any and all evidence of other crimes they DO find can bring relevant charges. For example, if you get arrested/raided as a case of mistaken identity and your home is searched and the cops find a grow op, they can charge you with the grow even though they should not have been there.
IOW, the cops can arrest anyone for anything, bogus reason or not, and if they find anything you can get busted for it.
IOW, the cops can arrest anyone for anything, bogus reason or not, and if they find anything you can get busted for it.
Okay here is the the thing, just the fact that they say they smell MJ is probabable cause like Verite said, and guess what, that is all they need. Cause all they need then is a cell phone, and they have their warrent, it's not like they have to actually go get the warrant all they need is a judge on the other end of the phone. And if you request to see the warrant well they will just have a car come park their asses out in your drive way while they go and get it should take depending on the size of town all of about 1 hour tops, and what are you going to do run? Or what flush all your plant materials or run them thru the garbage disposal? That may work for someone with baby plants, but any kind of bigger plants I just do not see how it is possible to get rid of all of that. But that is just me, I guess you do stand a better chance of getting the evidence surpressed that way, But on the other hand we will see when the gavel falls.
KnottyDollar
Member
EasyBakeIndica said:
Depending on the situation a non-answer would give them reason to enter the home.
EasyBakeIndica
Member
KnottyDollar said:
Only if they were called to the house by 911. (Solution: Don't hook-up a land line to the house.)
KnottyDollar
Member
And btw - smell of cannabis alone is not probable cause and doesnt not give them the right to search and seizure. They would actually have a hell of a time getting a warrant on smell alone unless you are in a very conservative state. Or dealing with feds, then all bets are off.
Trust me, I know my shit. Ive been in more legal trouble/battles than I would ever care to admit. Not all drug related either. And Ive won just as many cases as Ive lost.
Trust me, I know my shit. Ive been in more legal trouble/battles than I would ever care to admit. Not all drug related either. And Ive won just as many cases as Ive lost.
EasyBakeIndica
Member
KnottyDollar said:
If the police are already at your house for a "knock and talk" which is to investigate a report of "suspicious drug activity", then it really doesn't take much more for them to get probable cause. Smelling Marijuana will do it. Having a window covered/blacked out will also give them what they need. So will "acting suspiciously".
Not answering your door will not give them what they need to get a search warrant.
