jamaican "lambsbread"

[Marcus67]

Having grown out CBGen Durban I can say that there are some similarities, but the most symilarities phenotypically in terms of leaf expression, pigmentation of the stems and rubberyness feel of stem rub as well as terpene expression is very similar to idukki Kerala offered by trsc. The Jamaican I have is from @Roms collection. But I see a stronger symilarity in aspect between JLB and Kerala than Durban. But JLB remains rather distinct from either the Durban and the Kerala in terms of terpene profile. These are preliminary observations from having grown all three of the purported strains. That said, I remember reading a marker distribution graph and Durban is weirdly enough almost it's own niche genetically, if there was a Landrace closer to a speciation event within cannabis that would result in textbook hybridization that would be some SA cannabis populations.

Very nice info! It would make sense that both Bengal and Kerala are similar. In the mid/late 1800s during larger scale ganja production by competing liscenced suppliers in India, they would have sought out the best tropical varieties around. While Bengal was the main hub of consumption, production and export (big port of Kolkata), if there was a great variety in Kerala, it may have been collected and grown in Bengal and vice versa. This is just speculation based on how competition usually works. Kerla and Bengali NLDs are tropical (relatively) lowland varieties that are geographically close together (compared to South Africa) and are more than likely quite inter- related. Preserving Bengali NLDs for DNA testing is needed.

Here is a funny very angry editorial by an English expat living in India producing Opium, bashing the anti-Opium politicians back in England, arguing that Opium is much safer than ganja and alcohol, and that Charas is the real evil haha. But here he notes- like in many other sources- that the notable place for ganja consumption is in Bengal (now West Bengal/Bangladesh/Kolkata). Bengal was where many Indians "Coolies" were from and Kolkata (Bengal in the East) and Madras (South) were the main ports where they emigrated to Mauritius/South Africa/Jamaica from. The second article notes that Madras ganja was not as good or as prevalent as in Bengal at that time. Ok I will shut up now

 

[Eltitoguay]

At the time 15/16/17/18th centuries only hemp seeds traveling for marine rope resource and food for the animals, NLD was taboo, mostly unknown and rejected by "religious" morals imho.

Je, je,... La Inquisición española otra vez, sin duda...
I understand that each one can continue to insist on their opinions and beliefs, ignoring scientific evidence... But, as Serrat sang, "the truth is not so difficult; what it has no remedy"... (something, by the way, that Galileo could have said to the Italian Catholic Inquisition instead of "...and yet it moves...", or Miguel Servet aka Michael Servetus to the French-Swiss Protestant Inquisition, before he was burned at the stake because his discoveries about pulmonary blood circulation did not please Calvin...)

We repeat: "Psychoactive cannabis arrived in Latin America in the 16th century":

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg2286

 

[funkyhorse]

It would be nicer for readers if you leave all nationalistic Spain vs France bullshit for the next football world cup or the next football euro cup
It is more interesting commenting historical facts and trying to put the pieces of the puzzle in their correct place rather than trying to debate or being biased about a position or ideology

Iberian Slave Trade | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

French Slave Trade | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

This is how slaves travelled

The ones who brought the weed to Americas are the ship captains or the ship officials, it doesnt make sense at all being the slaves the ones who brought the weed with them when they were kidnapped and robbed of all their posessions

It is interesting to note that there are kimbundu words in the southern cone countries which belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata. There are even famous football songs including a kimbundu word
There is an influence in the local culture but the weed is something else

In the article posted above there is no reference and this is what it says without citing any reference for such claims, it is vague

Over the next centuries, drug-type Cannabis traveled to various world regions, including Africa (13th century) and Latin America (16th century), progressively reaching North America at the beginning of the 20th century and later, in the 1970s, from the Indian subcontinent.

What arrived in the 16th century is this

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321820458_Cannabis_Sativa_y_Chile_1577-1700_Un_Insumo_al_servicio_del_Imperio

And these guys created an economical empire in the region and are the ones who brought hemp/weed with them among other things and wars were fought

Jesuits - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesuit missions among the Guaraní - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

have a nice end of 2023

 

[mexcurandero420]

Very nice info! It would make sense that both Bengal and Kerala are similar. In the mid/late 1800s during larger scale ganja production by competing liscenced suppliers in India, they would have sought out the best tropical varieties around. While Bengal was the main hub of consumption, production and export (big port of Kolkata), if there was a great variety in Kerala, it may have been collected and grown in Bengal and vice versa. This is just speculation based on how competition usually works. Kerla and Bengali NLDs are tropical (relatively) lowland varieties that are geographically close together (compared to South Africa) and are more than likely quite inter- related. Preserving Bengali NLDs for DNA testing is needed.

Here is a funny very angry editorial by an English expat living in India producing Opium, bashing the anti-Opium politicians back in England, arguing that Opium is much safer than ganja and alcohol, and that Charas is the real evil haha. But here he notes- like in many other sources- that the notable place for ganja consumption is in Bengal (now West Bengal/Bangladesh/Kolkata). Bengal was where many Indians "Coolies" were from and Kolkata (Bengal in the East) and Madras (South) were the main ports where they emigrated to Mauritius/South Africa/Jamaica from. The second article notes that Madras ganja was not as good or as prevalent as in Bengal at that time. Ok I will shut up now View attachment 18938479 View attachment 18938482

This was 19th century Cannabis cultivation in Bengal.

Harvest and further processing

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

It would be nicer for readers if you leave all nationalistic Spain vs France bullshit for the next football world cup or the next football euro cup
It is more interesting commenting historical facts and trying to put the pieces of the puzzle in their correct place rather than trying to debate or being biased about a position or ideology

Iberian Slave Trade | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

French Slave Trade | Slavery and Remembrance

Through sites and objects from across the globe, Slavery and Remembrance aims to broaden our understandings of a shared and painful past, the ways in which we collectively remember and forget, and the power of legacies to shape our present and future.

slaveryandremembrance.org

This is how slaves travelled

The ones who brought the weed to Americas are the ship captains or the ship officials, it doesnt make sense at all being the slaves the ones who brought the weed with them when they were kidnapped and robbed of all their posessions
View attachment 18938540
It is interesting to note that there are kimbundu words in the southern cone countries which belonged to the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata. There are even famous football songs including a kimbundu word
There is an influence in the local culture but the weed is something else

In the article posted above there is no reference and this is what it says without citing any reference for such claims, it is vague


What arrived in the 16th century is this

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321820458_Cannabis_Sativa_y_Chile_1577-1700_Un_Insumo_al_servicio_del_Imperio

And these guys created an economical empire in the region and are the ones who brought hemp/weed with them among other things and wars were fought

Jesuits - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesuit missions among the Guaraní - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

have a nice end of 2023

Very informative article/study on Hemp arriving to Americas. I sure accept all theories on it.

I have to say as Native South American (Venezuelan born and raised), I found in my adulthood that our history has been fucked with by the Colonial empires. Much of our ancestral lineages, culture, rituals, life style and so on, have been intensively manipulated, re arranged and edited, as part of the unrightful missappropiation of the resources and the organized way los pueblos de las Americas were thriving on their own.

As many things claimed to be invented, discovered or put in place by colonialsm, I still chose to beleive Drug type cannabis existed in the vast universe that was the Americas, dating back to pre colonial dates pre 1500. Most of the modern information on America starts with Colonial arrival as they had the "tecnology" to document their findings. Everything was set in place to make the Kingdoms thrive, and goes as far as introducing non native species or domesticated ones to wipe out endemic non profit making crops already in place and used by the many indigenous peoples scattered everywhere from Nunavut to Patagonia.

Once again I beleive its historicaly accurate that Indian Hemp arrived to America with the slave boats, between 1500-1800. But there is almost no data of what was there before occupation.


Its a very passionate subject to disccuss, espcially Cannabis being the link between us all.

 

[Marcus67]

Ok I lied, not my last post haha. Here we have a very evolved article on cannabis and it's dangers from 1875 in India. They say that Rajshahai (now Bangladesh) has the most sought after ganja, and just nearby south in Kolkata this is where many Indians got recruited (conned) and left for Mauritius/Durban coast/Jamaica. In South Indian Port of Madras (closer to Kerala) they say there is not a lot of good cannabis or a big culture of ganja consumption like in Bengal.

Funny note as well that Burmese sativa may also be from Bengal India/Bangladesh.

I am also finding many import logs from London from 1860s-80s of imported ganja mainly from Kolkata but also a few from Bombay, which was also a port of recruitment and departure for Indians gojng to Jamaica/Mauritius etc. Maybe some genetics came from there as well, but most exports seem to be Bengali ganja. Victorian London has some good ganja back then haha!

Also of note is that lots of endentured worker recruiting (conning) happened in the near surrounding rural areas of these port of departure. For Kolkata that mean right in the areas where the best ganja of that day was grown.

The article from 1883 from the botanist of Kew Garden is the most interesting. He says organized ganja cultivation (vs wild stuff that grows on bathroom waste areas outside villages) is only done in Bengal, plants start in a nursery in August and planted in the ground in September. In November they show sex and males are removed. They are harvested end February, and processed (trimmed- dried, compressed and rolled into bundles) in March for export.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

I think we can all agree that this particular genepool we call “Lambs bread” or “Coolie ganja” is very rare and it’s great to see so many in the cannabis scene are doing their fare share in keeping it alive.

Perhaps the spiritual energy people feel when lambs bread is smoked is fraction accumulated energy from the incredible voyage these genetics went thru during it’s 500+ years of existence.

 

[acespicoli]

 

[mexcurandero420]

 

[Eltitoguay]

It would be nicer for readers if you leave all nationalistic Spain vs France bullshit for the next football world cup or the next football euro cup
(...)

I, however, what I smell like "bull shit" is your clever argument presented... It has the same line and argumentative weight as when they described my arguments as the result of brainwashing by the Inquisition... (bullshit argument competition?) Or as when you dared to say that my cultivated plants were shit subsidized by shitty seed banks to trick poor, honest growers into buying and growing shit... My 8 year old niece argues better than many here...

In the article posted above there is no reference and this is what it says without citing any reference for such claims, it is vague
"Over the next centuries, drug-type Cannabis traveled to various world regions, including Africa (13th century) and Latin America (16th century), progressively reaching North America at the beginning of the 20th century and later, in the 1970s, from the Indian subcontinent."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321820458_Cannabis_Sativa_y_Chile_1577-1700_Un_Insumo_al_servicio_del_Imperio

Yes Yes Yes. The study is "vague"; It is very clear in the numerous reasons you give to qualify it... Damn, they should have called you to do it, heh...

I also tell you that, of course, your link about Chile is very very interesting :

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321820458_Cannabis_Sativa_y_Chile_1577-1700_Un_Insumo_al_servicio_del_Imperio

(but it was Mexico, before Chile and others, the first American territory where cannabis would be grown)

 

[albertgriffiths]

What's so good in carribean/south american music/food/ganja/dance/carnivals/et caetera is, in my opinion, its being creole, crioulo, criollo, kreyol.​

People from all over the world gathered "en esa comarca del mundo que hoy llamamos América Latina" (E.Galeano) , for various reasons, most of them not being exempt of violence and greed, and a miracle happened: despite said violence and greed, they mixed all their cultures into something new. None of them could truly replace anything, nor take control of the whole of it.

Black jews smoking Indian ganja and burning Arawak tobacco in memory of Xango and Yemaya during a European carnival.​

Same happens with ganja. Seeds travel, plants hybridize, get selected. Nothing replaced anything. Just like humans: it came to the carribeans, and got creolized. You can trace back some of its origins, you can make educated guesses... But I wouldn't fight over it too much. It is a bit of everything AND it is something new. That's the beauty of it.

Same with Rasta.​

The world is fighting for identity, nationalism, religion, borders... Seems it has always been. Ism Skism game. Hope is that nuestra comarca del mundo que hoy llamamos América Latina is the proof something else is possible:

The creolization of the world.​

 

[Normannen]

What's so good in carribean/south american music/food/ganja/dance/carnivals/et caetera is, in my opinion, its being creole, crioulo, criollo, kreyol.​

People from all over the world gathered "en esa comarca del mundo que hoy llamamos América Latina" (E.Galeano) , for various reasons, most of them not being exempt of violence and greed, and a miracle happened: despite said violence and greed, they mixed all their cultures into something new. None of them could truly replace anything, nor take control of the whole of it.

Black jews smoking Indian ganja and burning Arawak tobacco in memory of Xango and Yemaya during a European carnival.​

Same happens with ganja. Seeds travel, plants hybridize, get selected. Nothing replaced anything. Just like humans: it came to the carribeans, and got creolized. You can trace back some of its origins, you can make educated guesses... But I wouldn't fight over it too much. It is a bit of everything AND it is something new. That's the beauty of it.

Same with Rasta.​

The world is fighting for identity, nationalism, religion, borders... Seems it has always been. Ism Skism game. Hope is that nuestra comarca del mundo que hoy llamamos América Latina is the proof something else is possible:

The creolization of the world.​

i think your pictures didn't come through

 

[Roms]

Hemp growing did not very well in big parts of Africa. Only the cooler parts of South-Africa would do, although havent read any documents about it.

I know and experimented that there's some hemp kind of pheno in pure sativa from tropical or equatorial situations, process of feral evolution of landrace compared to man selection heirloom in fact. I consider most of those endless Green pheno 24+ like closer to NLH than NLD ^^

 

[Roms]

Here's two pheno i found in Kerala 10y ago, at right it's hemp kind and longer in flowering time, both were harvested at 20/22 weeks

NLD/NLH

 

[Wwbsox]

@BC LONE WOLF

Forgive me for being lazy, BC, but I've done so much reading. Have you tried the Double Jam, from USC? JLB x JBM? Just ordered a pack from them. Read some threads on this strain and it looks promising.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

@BC LONE WOLF

Forgive me for being lazy, BC, but I've done so much reading. Have you tried the Double Jam, from USC? JLB x JBM? Just ordered a pack from them. Read some threads on this strain and it looks promising.

I haven’t, but have seen it grown on here and other forums. Looks enticing from the pictures I find online.
Its great to work with Jamaican phenotypes.

 

[Wwbsox]

I haven’t, but have seen it grown on here and other forums. Looks enticing from the pictures I find online.
Its great to work with Jamaican phenotypes.

I agree, BC. That's why I thought I'd give them a try, in a future run.

Most growers report a lot of JLB dominant phenos, too.

 

[Wwbsox]

Due to grow room restrictions, I only started 6 of the JLB from Atao Genetics. All six have sprouted, although number six is just breaking the surface.

 

[BC LONE WOLF]

Narrow leaf from the start

 

[Wwbsox]

Narrow leaf from the start

Yes, I am looking forward to growing an actual sativa. I haven't had much luck with seed banks in this regard. On the left is the JLB I started with, not Roms, (a little frostbite from being in the snow). On the far right is Anesia's Panama Red (advertised as a pure landrace sativa).