More bud exposure to air = more terpene degradation?

[little-soldier]

Sup guys,

i wanted to know if any of you ever noticed this.
If you cut a bud off the plant and let it dry for around 5 days in your house, it will often be smokable at that point. When you smoke that bud It will be harsh to the throat, but the first few puffs you will get an intense aroma/taste. Well i can never get that taste Back even after a Good cure. I mean, i will taste it but it will always be more faint. Kind of like a teasing cunt. Been growing for over 20 years and tried a few drying techniques including the paper bags.
This round i cut the plant and hung them upside down without trimming anything. Let them dry in my dark cold basement (60-65 degrees) with a dehumidifier and kept the RH between 68-63. 4 weeks later and most the taste is gone but super smooth smoke. And now no matter how much longer i will cure it, it won’t bring that powerful taste back.

my last test will be on my next run. I will cut/hang no trimming, and instead of waiting a few weeks at 68-63Rh, i will bring the rh down so that after 3 days i can feel the crisp on the outside of the bud and chop all the buds to start sweating the weed in sealed bags.
My theory is the longer the buds are exposed to the air no matter the temp/RH, the more terpenes are evaporated into the air.
What do you guys think? Im a crazy stoner? Lol

 

[Hammerhead]

Curing will not improve terpenes. Curing will make the smoke smoother and convert THC to CBN which makes the high more sedative. Any quality plant with strong terpenes will retain them the best. There's gonna be trade offs when selecting keepers. I find more potent plants with lack luster terpene profiles. It's harder to find phenos with Potency and a strong flav. Fresh high quality cannabis will always have stronger terpenes.

 

[little-soldier]

Thx Hammerhead, it makes sense. I’ve been pheno hunting for The taste rather than the high. I just want A crazy intense Taste in my mouth when i smoke. Lots of bland tasting grass out there, it’s sad. Like my buddy once said. Buds are teasing cunts

 

[Ca++]

You have a humidifier?

 

[little-soldier]

No humidifier, it’s summer time and the dehumidifier goes on for about 2 minutes every 15 minutes because the humidity keeps rising

 

[browntrout]

Sup guys,

i wanted to know if any of you ever noticed this.
If you cut a bud off the plant and let it dry for around 5 days in your house, it will often be smokable at that point. When you smoke that bud It will be harsh to the throat, but the first few puffs you will get an intense aroma/taste. Well i can never get that taste Back even after a Good cure. I mean, i will taste it but it will always be more faint. Kind of like a teasing cunt. Been growing for over 20 years and tried a few drying techniques including the paper bags.
This round i cut the plant and hung them upside down without trimming anything. Let them dry in my dark cold basement (60-65 degrees) with a dehumidifier and kept the RH between 68-63. 4 weeks later and most the taste is gone but super smooth smoke. And now no matter how much longer i will cure it, it won’t bring that powerful taste back.

my last test will be on my next run. I will cut/hang no trimming, and instead of waiting a few weeks at 68-63Rh, i will bring the rh down so that after 3 days i can feel the crisp on the outside of the bud and chop all the buds to start sweating the weed in sealed bags.
My theory is the longer the buds are exposed to the air no matter the temp/RH, the more terpenes are evaporated into the air.
What do you guys think? Im a crazy stoner? Lol

What the easiest method for preserving the smell and taste closest to what it smells like growing for me has been cut, hang, dry with decent airflow (important) and RH around 40-50. about 1.5-2 weeks till they're actually dry, then i let them hangout another 1-3 weeks usually if no rush to manicure. PS. it's not dry when you think it's dry. Jar curing has always yielded loss in smell/taste unless bone dry and kept that way. keep in ziploc or vacuum seal. Drying at a lower RH like this seems to preserve better, but doesn't quite allow the fermentation process and those uncommon strains that get better with cure. in my experience there are very few strains that cure out better (Subjective). Has been very fool proof. I would like to try a slow hang dry like this but with RH starting at 65% gradually decreasing to 35% over 3-4 weeks.

Just what works for me

 

[little-soldier]

I tried drying at an rh of 40 once and after 4 days they were pretty much bone dry. Last harvest i did 60% and they were almost bone dry after 10 days. That’s why i tried 65-70 and still, the smell is there but the taste is lacking like a mofo after 3-4-5 weeks. Oh well, looks like I’ll have to do more testing myself. The more i learn from my own grows the more i realize the internet is full of shit

 

[browntrout]

I tried drying at an rh of 40 once and after 4 days they were pretty much bone dry. Last harvest i did 60% and they were almost bone dry after 10 days. That’s why i tried 65-70 and still, the smell is there but the taste is lacking like a mofo after 3-4-5 weeks. Oh well, looks like I’ll have to do more testing myself. The more i learn from my own grows the more i realize the internet is full of shit

There are obviously a ton more variables than what is typically said on the internet. What will work for one person may not for another. This is highly dependent on each persons preference and conditions. Ambient airflow, mean humidity of a room prior to drying/ before dehumidifiers\humidifiers, temperature, dehumidifier capabilities, outside humidity, number of plants increasing your humidity etc.

Also something may feel bone dry in 50% ambient humidity but feel quite soggy and moist in 30% humidity, something to remember. And a dead give away to not fully dried plant material.

Think about drying plants in a 10'x10'x10' air tight sealed space with, low air flow, a single dehumidifier targeting 50% humidity @40 degrees C and then plants in a 100' x 100'x 100' non insulated barn @ 10 degrees C, with tons a large industrial fans and multiple de-humidifiers targeting 50% humidity, with outside humidity of 30%.

Which do you think will dry faster? Even though your targeting 50%? Does this seem like too much? Not a fair Comparison? That's because there really aren't two comparable situations for drying and curing. You need to constantly adapt, recognize the variables and adjust accordingly.

There is no recipe for perfect dried and cured plants, there is no easy way out.

As you've stated, it's just something you will have to learn on your own.

 

[xet]

It doesn't matter what vegetable or herb or flower or fruit it is, once the fruit is cut 90% of phytonutrients will be lost within 10 minutes. I wish Science had a map of all other degredations taking place. All we can do in curing really is to slow that down like a heavy load of weight in a truck.

I really like unglazed clay pots for curing

Something else you might try is curing with other flowers and herbs so the other herbs and flowers occupy some of that terpene drying space if you will to retain more terpens in the flower you are interested in smoking. Using additional flowers you want to smoke is also cool. Mixing multiple herbs and flowers is a really interesting smoking experience when they all have a nice cure.

The most important thing is stop doing the things that don't work and have fun trying new things.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Oxygen caused oxidation is the main destroyer I am aware of.

Once in a while I get caught up thinking about what it would take to build and operate a fully inert gas drying environment, and what effect it would have on cannabis flavor.

 

[little-soldier]

Oxygen caused oxidation is the main destroyer I am aware of.
Exactly what i thought.

And Browntrout your statement that 30% feels more moist than 50% is just not logic.
We’re not talking about a hot summer here.

 

[Cerathule]

Once in a while I get caught up thinking about what it would take to build and operate a fully inert gas drying environment, and what effect it would have on cannabis flavor.

You mean like drying flower in a vaccuum?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

You mean like drying flower in a vaccuum?

Nope... like drying them in a 100% non-oxygen environment. Roll in racks, exchange air for non oxidising/non-reactive gas like nitrogen. Then you need a large enough 100% nitrogen lung room and equipment to dry/heat/cool the gas appropriately before pumping through the drying room again.

 

[browntrout]

Oxygen caused oxidation is the main destroyer I am aware of.
Exactly what i thought.

And Browntrout your statement that 30% feels more moist than 50% is just not logic.
We’re not talking about a hot summer here.

To me it’s extremely logical, because you can physically feel and see it. When you take bud that’s dried to 50% within a 50% RH environment it feels dry. When you move it to a 30% environment within hours it feels much more supple, less rigid and more spongey.

How is this not logical? What does a hot summer have to do with this? Please explain.

 

[Cerathule]

Nope... like drying them in a 100% non-oxygen environment. Roll in racks, exchange air for non oxidising/non-reactive gas like nitrogen. Then you need a large enough lung room and equipment to dry/heat/cool the gas appropriately before pumping through the drying room again.

it's not a bad idea per se. maybe with an atmosphere that also gives mold no chance

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Mold would not be an issue with nitrogen, it's one of the more stable elements and not a co2 or o2 source for them. Anerobic processes will continue, so there's that to consider and possibly concern.

 

[Mudz]

Any of you tried grovebags they supposed to help lock in terps with out having to burp and cab use what you need

 

[Hammerhead]

Heat is a leading destroyer of terpenes. Terpenes are highly volatile phytochemicals. They will burn off quickly as the temps get higher.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Heat is a leading destroyer of terpenes. Terpenes are highly volatile phytochemicals. They will burn off quickly as the temps get higher.

Yet when I tell people to grow at temps between 65 to 70F I'm called crazy. My terps say otherwise.

The most fragile terps begin vaping at 70F, and these are the terps which become pieces/part of more complex terpenes later. So how can you get the really complex terps if you're vaping their precursors off as fast as they are forming?

Smells awesome in a hot room though, yeah? Those vapors smell awesome!!

 

[Hammerhead]

As they say....

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Passing our knowledge is the easy part. Getting others to understand it is not.

65f is a bit too cold for Cannabis to grow well. If the room is 65 the root zone is much colder. IMO 75f is the perfect temp for flowering. The lights we use can impact this. Vegging when its 80-85f will do best.