Best MH on the market.

[Guest]

Not much for bugs in the Phillips line of 250/400w CMH. They have been out like 7 or 8yrs and Boeing has re-lamped entire buildings (hanger/manufacturing buildings) with them. I have never lost one. I do re-lamp every 2nd or 3rd cycle because I get them for 38.00$ US.

Azeo

 

[Guest]

Still can't remember what the knock was on the CMH's. Do they need a particular ballast or something?

 

[Guest]

On a side note i could never get sativas to bud right with a sun agro mh bulb only.

 

[simba]

the bug was before the Spiral around the arc it could rupture the Outer shell if it blew up.. but blowing up is less often then HPS or MH even (mh prone to ploding)
that is not a concern any more than a standard HPS going poof wich is rare specialy for these
the 600+ watt CMH's there trying to get more LPW. because within a year RF induction CMH will be out and it will have to be High LPW to compete with RF induction CMH..

CMH has been around for 20 some years.. but has gone drastic Improvments over the last 10 years.. (surpasing hps and mh durability and output etc)

the 250 and 400 HPS-retro whites on that site on advtech.. they are hps ballastable lamps..

there are 20-400 CMH that work on Pulsed start MH ballasts. but if ur using electtonic ballast they have to be marked for ceramic lamps (thats why they work with HPS ballasts hps has that UHMPH OF pulsed startup)

CMH is the leader now for all Markets.. its a revalutianary lamp.. Even better than Sulfur Plasma (only becuase it uses CMH over Sulfur) for a better PAR over PUR

 

[Mr Celsius]

Well until that day, that I'm not suppose to know, what is the currently best 1000w MH on the market?

If I don't get a real answer, I'll probably just buy a normal Horitlux MH (not the blue).

 

[Guest]

That'll do ya just fine. I'd prefer a Sunmaster Warm Deluxe though but bulbs are really only a small part of the grow 'puzzle'. Then you got the total enviro, temp and humidity, and also nute program and medium. Air flow in an open system is critical but if closed with CO2 then no problemo. Nice bulbs are nice but IMO there's other stuff more important. I just dealt with a grow which yielded a bit more due to better hood cooling and feed cycle adjustments. This overcame old bulbs to the tune of 1 year + 2 months.

 

[legalizekindtok]

i burn a mh every now and again.... but i have had NO problems with the agrosun 1000 mh. very highly recommend them!!!!

 

[simba]

as much as i hate to say it if u want the 2nd best to a 1kw CMH..
then spectrum you can get..
the new eye blue/super hps combo lamp would be your 2nd Best LOL
especially The eye blue in 1kw i don't like by itself..
its $200 and only 12k hours but its 2nd best to a 1kw CMH..
just my 2cents

 

[BlindDate]

Interesting....WAY less lumens compared to a HPS.

You go first

 

[Guest]

Lumens make me laugh!! Not a measurement that I consider all that important. I would rather look at photon production and spectrum coverage relative to total energy out put. There are qualities that show up in strains when they are given the full spectrum coverage that are not there or as pronounced with the very narrow spectrum "shots/spikes" that the best HPS bulbs have. Ie. vigor, TIGHT nodes, resin production, flavour, aroma, root growth, resistance to disease/insects, yield and potency.

It seems that the best HPS bulbs are like a fert program that feeds required levels of N-P-K, but very minimal to deficient levels of mag, calcium, boron, iron............ I don't get it?

Azeotrope

 

[simba]

well i found an old thread of mine ( i updated the link only)
http://**********/showthread.php?t=20585
from july 2006 (i know i have talked about them before then even..it starts below.. where i say travel.. ull see

as far as lumens, Kelvin, CRI are worthless without a SPD (non twisted one)
if you really understand kelvin and how it would be plotted its nothing like realiity. (Few crxx Leds actully follow it on a relitive)
well lumens is there within reason without intimate knowledge of the PPF itself..

Kelvin is for the EYE's perception Only (in hort argument) its what color we persieve (oh oh and depending on each person Kelvin is persevied differently.. my sis cant see the blue,green hues in the leds i play with but i can color ranges better.. and my dad cant see half of some ranges (color blind i forget wich colors ) and i can make up an led aray and have very simular Kelvins but the nm ranges and intensitys used are way diff..


CRI is for Color rendition Nothing for Growing.. the higher the number the more of the NM ranges there are (cause if they not there there not going to reflect back) and doesnt state at what intenstiy thos nm ranges are.. you can have a high cri with a baseline threw PUR (what wee see) and then all the energy in 900+or 400- or something like that..


and its proven (K and CRI mean nothing) in the sunleaves satellite Each 105-watt Bloom Tube emits 11,000 lumens with a color temperature of 3000 Kelvins
but if you ask them for a SPD chart (THEY WILL TALK CIRCLES and say its to complex and you have to understand Physics thats 99% what i was told)
that they use tri phosphorus.. bla bla but tir-phos is for CRI and general lighting NOT GROW LIGHTING>> FACT)look nlites red and purple thats real plant power
Id release a Real SPD of it but they would be PISSED (it sucks, a total baseline) nothing like Nlites Red or even there purp,, even GE's growlux is same thing basicly the sat just has sheer brute force.. its actully not efficiant.. (its there phosphorus's that suck i like the 105 LPW (VHO)


and if the CMH is such crap why is the EYE MH BLUE (with Less RED)
be able to say.and i qoute.
"HORTILUX - BLUE™
Hortilux – Blue™ Metal Halide lamps are designed to grow high quality, natural looking plants during all phases of their growth cycles. They are used professionally in plant physiological research, biotechnology and pharmacology.
Research shows that spectral energy ratios are more significant than lumens for plant growth. The exclusive Iwasaki chemistry in the Hortilux - Blue™ provides ratios of Red, Blue and Green spectral energy that better meet the needs of plants compared to standard Metal Halide lamps."

EYE SAYS LUMENS MEAN NOTHING LOL..
but remember the CMH has more red, longer life, higher lumen maintance, 6 reasons philips CMH is better

heres the post so u dont have to travel
Some of the bulb models i have to recheck some have updated...


as it states this is the one spot for these bulbs
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

GROW BULB
and there cheap max 60 bucks
now this isnt to say that if you spend over a 100 on a special bulb it might be a lil beter but look at the difference and the cost dif. not worth the payoff..

this is a view of what the plant can absorbe as usable energy..
as you can see it absorbs between blue and red

Ceramic metal halide is the new way of horticulture…

NO MORE HPS/MH COMBO, NO MORE SPECIALTY GROW BULBS..
there obsolite with the output of these
up to 400 watt any thing higher is still up in the air

Here is the Spectral output of the Ceramic from Philips on the bulbs I have listed below...
It covers all the bulbs I list

this is the SON AGRO 430 Watt HPS as you can see the ceramic blows it out of the water.. and this is philips Horticulter bulb

this is EYE HORTILUX SUPER HPS EN
it only realy peaks in the blue.. not a good bulb for use as a single source
nothing in the blue range
(veg to bloom) however its decent for a bloom bulb..well tell now
any rate its 70 bucks when you compare to regulare HPS for $20.. that means your paying 50 bucks more for just a lil bit extra.. and you could pay 10 bucks less and get the cmh wich puts out a better output

this is the EYE HORTILUX - BLUE
again not good for both veg and blom.. decent veg only...
this is the closet bulb to the CMH bulbs i have listed
no real red though like we get in cmh +
Cost 110-135 cmh 400 50 bucks half price better output you decide

this is the EYE HORTILUX MH forget it so wavy, overall the CMH stil takes it..
HORTILUX METAL ACE is the same so im not posting its chart..

got any more bulbs you want me to match... model number watt, mfr 50-400 only..

also i have called tech support for allot of bulbs and sent them the pdfs on these bulbs and they agree they have nothing that compares.
There are allot of choices out there even within Philips line so I figured I would publish my list of good bulbs…. This is my work don’t copy and paste somewhere.. Link back to this forum…

I will add comparison wave outputs when I can... Comparing other hort bulbs but they all will loose…

I chose 4K for my list as the more you go away from that the more the CRI drops..
And we like the 92+ out of these bulbs..

All specs listed are accurate against Philips.. Specs

Do not deviate from these part numbers.. At all... you wont gain any thing... you wont get what you want….Example some of them have UV filters and other crap...just go with these...

These is they will run on your standard ballast... (50-150W MH, 250,400 HPS)
(If you have hps ballast and want to use 50-150 Watt you will need to convert them to my... there easy...)



MasterColor ED-17 Ceramic Metal Halide 50-150 watts 250, 400 keep going down

Excellent Color Rendering: 82–85 for 3K; 92 for 4K (see why I chose 4K)
Superior Color Stability Over Life: –Within ± 200K
Lamp to Lamp Color: Consistency over Life (means they have good QC in MFR)
Higher Lumen Maintenance: –Improved lumen maintenance over standard metal halide
Total Cost of Ownership Benefits: –High lamp efficacy (up to 93 LPW)

50-150 there’s two charts one for Open, and Closed Fixture...
The reason I have two charts is that the closed fixture are available without a UV filter... and we like UV... but the proteced one still has more uv than HPS (tell me if im wrong) and within the 2 I have added the coated bulbs aswell cuase at 150 max your gonna be a small grow.. They are phosphorus coated so they will provide a nice diffuse output so you can get closer... if that makes sence. But will also mess with the UV so it’s a trade off.
Can any one give there research as to if we should include coated in this list...IE the loss’s when you go with coated in a open Fixture with that UV block…. So does the coating actually help because the UV block is gone... as it aids in photosynthisis


i have a project going now with 3 mini bulbs..with the same spec. output of the bulbs above..aslo great for clones and babies on comercial scale these are expencive..ill let ya know when i find the best one..

So going off all these I would go with the HPS-retro white unless you need smaller...wattage and then if you have hps just convert to MH or buy new..

Someone can ya post a simple to convert 70-150 HPS to MH to run the 50-150 bulbs..
Or say what to buy and hook up to hps transformer..
in another post but link here
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

 

[simba]

any replys

 

[Guest]

Thanx for the info. I'm following this thread but hella busy right now and for awhile.

 

[budvapor]

interesting! did a quick look up on google and couldn't find where to buy (other than link you provided, although they don't have everything?)

 

[S4vvy]

Ceramic metal halide is the new way of horticulture…

NO MORE HPS/MH COMBO, NO MORE SPECIALTY GROW BULBS..
there obsolite with the output of these
up to 400 watt any thing higher is still up in the air

Here is the Spectral output of the Ceramic from Philips on the bulbs I have listed below...
It covers all the bulbs I list

this is the EYE HORTILUX - BLUE
again not good for both veg and blom.. decent veg only...
this is the closet bulb to the CMH bulbs i have listed
no real red though like we get in cmh +
Cost 110-135 cmh 400 50 bucks half price better output you decide

I have a question. According to the charts you've shown, the CMH clearly beats the Hort Blue in reds (while the HB slightly beats the CMH in blues). They both beat every other bulb listed in reds so why do you say they're not good for flowering?

I don't use 400's, only 1000's, so my best choice would be the HB's. Even if i did use 400's i get hydro supplies close to wholesale and i replace bulbs every 3 months or so. These factors bring the hb's closer in value but the cmh still beats em. Wish they made 1000's....

 

[Pinball Wizard]

SIMBA

SIMBA

What does the big spike at 520-530 nm on the spectrum chart for the CMH do for us?

Useful for veg or flower?...or a waste at that wavelength.

 

[simba]

More info here also (where my charts are from)
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

i have found for using a single bulb or any for that mater.
plants want Red = or greater than blue during flower..
the EYE BLUE Doesn't have that the CMH does


ya i admit that is a Wasted spike for us (kinda not realy especialy vs eye blue)

if u look at what plants can use.
the Philips CMH yes dumps in 520-530 but the eye blue dums right at 500, the eyes 500 is totaly unusable vs the 520-530 that actully goes on an up vs higher nm
u asked about..

and if u look at the EYE BLUE it has a Bigger spkie..
also remember that the philips dumps more lumen's then they eye blue..
and the philips chart isnt screwed so it actually wastes less energy than the blue if u compare the to spikes not in the red or blue..

and i can ask the same thing about 550-600nm for the philips son agro..
Half of its Emitted energy is emited 550-600 where as cmh and EYE blue both have it across its whole spectrum..

that spike i do say is the only down side to CMH.. and im totaly fine with it..

or look at
60+% of its emited energy is 500-600 the most un absorbed section..

yes the charts get confusing kinda not really..

the cmhs look low peaks but spread all across.. and plants can take most that light in. (ya they all emit in 500-600) but its what they put elsewhere aslo

in the end eye says there eye blue rocks and then when directly compared to philips cmh the philips whomps it.. (eye does have labs and places using them because eye blue was it till CMH)'
'
here are some SPDS of the lamps mentioned and the plant responce...

first is CMH.. (the images have the lamp number/name)

eye blue (if you really look the CMH outperforms)

This one is a Hort bulb but where the light where the plants want

This one is a Hort bulb but where the light where the plants want

now mind u this is only for overal idea of nm ranges vs input..

I cant stop laughing when i look at horticulture bulbs. and how they can charge so much for no gain.. (some standard HPS outperform Hort lamps in NM ranges but dont get the Nice Lumen raiting) they will come back to reality soon..

 

[Pinball Wizard]

Thanks...Simba

For $53+tax...I think I will try one for my next grow. I have a 400HPS ballast, Hortilux bulb now, and it did OK, but I want to slow down the stretch next time.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained....

 

[simba]

PB let us know how u like CMH

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I may experiment with this.

I am running 3 4x11 tables. Would a 400W CMH cover the 4 foot width? I am thinking not. Also would there be any negative affect if 2 tables were running normal 1000W HPS and one table was running the CMH or even if part of the table was running CMH and the other half normal HPS?