Ulbricht sphere PAR test (PPF) of several popular 1000W lamps

[whazzup]

that depends a lot on the color temperature and the make of the lamp: High color temperature lamps usually output less micromoles and MH in general do not have a good light maintenance. They drop up to 20%+ per year. The Philips HPI T-plus does initially 540 micromoles. That's 1.35 per watt at full power. After a year of 5000 hours us that would be 1.08. However... MH are usually use for veg, so 18 hours per day. A year 18 hours would be 6570 hours. You'd be looking at less than 80% light maintenance after a year use.

Not all HPS lamps have a good light maintenance either, but the quality horticultural lamps do not drop 20% per year.

We have seen HPS lamps that initially were very bright drop more than 5% over the first 3 months of use, about the same as the MH drop.

The new CMH lamps have a much better light maintenance than MH.

 

[Scrogerman]

There is no difference in the envelope. Both single ended HPS and double ended HPS have a single outer balloon. The only difference is that the philips double ended is made of quartz glass.

The specs of the Philips GreenPower 400/600W standard 230V lamps is as follows:

230V 400W: 725 micromoles
230V 600W: 1100 micromoles

But be warned: these are only suitable for magnetic ballasts. They are used widely in Europe for electronic ballasts but you need to change them a bit more often and check the wire frame condition.

Thanks man, informative thread. didnt the same apply/similar to Grolux lamps where it has changed now or am i mistaken? Cheers & G'Luck!

 

[whazzup]

Sylvania lamps we do not recommend in general for electronic ballasts. I am not sure if they have already solved their problems, we don't sell them in horticulture anymore.

 

[growshopfrank]

Hey Whazzup do you know of an north american distributor for gavita ballasts also do they have any that will operate on 208v?

 

[onegreenday]

Hey Whazzup do you know of an north american distributor for gavita ballasts also do they have any that will operate on 208v?

http://www.monstergardens.com/index...207&vmcchk=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=355

 

[whazzup]

Your link is to the pro-line 240V ballasts, 208 is a bit too low for them, specifically for the 600W ballast. The 1000W is not rated for 208 but might work on that, I will see if we can check that coming month. You still have a problem when the voltage drops even below 208V.

Our DigiStar line works on 120-240V. The Humboldt MicroMole 120-240V ballasts btw are also sold by monstergardens - there is a video on monstergardens.com which compares the MicroMole to the Lumatek ballast.

Rambridge distributes our DigiStar ballasts for the Canadian market.

 

[onegreenday]

Won't the Digistar have the same problem at 208v?

thanks

EDIT: Also from your chart it makes no sense to use 1150 watts
Phillips double end since the output does not change. Correct?

Your link is to the pro-line 240V ballasts, 208 is a bit too low for them, specifically for the 600W ballast. The 1000W is not rated for 208 but might work on that, I will see if we can check that coming month. You still have a problem when the voltage drops even below 208V.

Our DigiStar line works on 120-240V. The Humboldt MicroMole 120-240V ballasts btw are also sold by monstergardens - there is a video on monstergardens.com which compares the MicroMole to the Lumatek ballast.

Rambridge distributes our DigiStar ballasts for the Canadian market.

 

[onegreenday]

According to this test on the Apache Tech which has designed the AT 120watt LED grow light;

they get almost 400 micromoles from 120 watts or over 3. micromoles per watt at 19" from the fixture, exceeding even the Phillips.

What do you make of that?

Here's the video link.

LED grow light break through

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQD5bmgLyqs&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[whazzup]

The figures are efficiency in micromoles per watt, so for the ppf you multiply by the wattage. This actually shows that the philips is working at its top performance.

So if a ballast has an efficiency that is 10% less at a specific power, it outputs that much less light.

As the C DigiStars are 120-240V, the voltage is of no influence. At 120V they are just a bit less efficient because they use more amps. Higher voltage ballasts are more efficient than low voltage ballasts.

As for the micromoles measured: You can not measure micromoles per watt at a certain distance. You can measure micromoles per second per meter as you do not integrate all the light. At a foot from a 1000W light I measure thousands of micromoles per meter per second, yet the ppf is "only" 2000 micromoles per second. It doesn't say anything about the ppf. Micromoles per watt can only be measured in an integrating sphere, and a bit more difficult with directional light as LED. So I'm sorry but that is crap, excuse my French .

A very bold statement on their site:

- utilizes approx. 80% less energy for the same instantaneous photon flux (PPF)

You know about things that sound too good to be true eh? A 200W LED lamp would replace a 1000W HID. Well not in the coming 20 years I presume.

About that test: first he did not measure ppf but ppfd, secondly the meter is not a true micromole meter but a lux meter with an internal table, and you still have to do calculations according to a table depending the source of the light. Thirdly 500 micromoles on a quarter square meter surface is not a lot. I am sure you can not light 500 micromoles on one square meter with this light. That easily explains the difference. I can assure you that will not replace a 600W HPS - the best do almost 1200 micromoles. That's 500 micromoles on 2,2 square meter, not on a quarter of a square meter .

What it does show however is that there is a lot of difference in leds.

If you had 1000+ to spare, would you buy 300W plasma or 120W LED? Now that's an interesting choice.

 

[TLoft13]

Very interesting Whazzup, please keep it coming.
Greetz,
TLoft13
PS: I personally prefer it when posters make their affilition to a firm (Gavita) clear in their signature or profile, avoids misunderstandings because "puppets" / guerillamarketeers have become such a nuisance in the last years...
PPS: I'm very interested in your products, what's in the pipeline besides the aircooled Triplestar reflector?
I personally would like to see an aircooled Triplestar with the 1000W DE Philips bulb...

 

[whazzup]

hehe I'll make sure that it will TLoft.

I was already a member years before I joined Gavita, or even worked in this industry. I don't want to overdo it either, I'm here in my sparse time off you know. I just have more to share now I have access to it. When I think it is interesting for you guys I share it.

 

[Pangea]

Is it possible to get a 1000w 240v Interlight.

Any interesting things on that front?

Seems like it could utilize the DE lamps, no? I imagine a column of 2, 3, or 4 as well to cover the 16' tree's or tomatoes.

 

[whazzup]

Unfortunately you can't:

1. the 1000DE is for horizontal use only
2. you need to have a double ended lamp holder, which asks for a bracket
3. They need to come to optimal temperature in a reflector.

I had a few questions about the data that I published: it is in micromoles per watt.

That translates in different outputs per power setting, you need to multiply by the number of watts. So for example for 1000W lamps @ 1000W this is the data. As you can see the ouput power is adjusted within 0,5%. It also demonstrates that a high lumens lamps is not always a high micromoles lamp.

 

[whazzup]

to put it in perspective: The percentage shows how much more light this lamp produces compared to the next lamp in the line-up.

 

[swisscheese]

Sounds like it's time for me to dump the sunmasters and get some new lamps instead of a co2 generator. Quick question most of these manufacturers sell multiple lights specifically are these hps or mh and what models? Must of missed it reading through.

 

[whazzup]

they are the 1000 HPS and I still haven't gotten to writing down the exact models for you guys (worked from home last few weeks with a flu). Some brands do not have multiple HPS models. A little patience, I will make a list when I am back in the office.

 

[swisscheese]

How does all of this relate to par watts? Or are the same thing? I'm just trying to take in the full big picture here.

 

[whazzup]

That's a good question. I never understood PAR watts, but let me try to break it down for you. As far as I know Sunmaster uses PAR Watts. As they are the only or one of the few who use it it is hard to compare to anything else.

This is from their site:

PAR Watts for Plants

Watts is an objective measure of energy being used or emitted by a lamp each second. Energy itself is measured in joules, and 1 joule per second is called a watt. A 100 watt incandescent bulb uses up 100 joules of electrical energy every second. How much light energy is it generating? About 6 joules per second or 6 watts, but the efficiency of the lamp is only 6%, a rather dismal number. The rest of the energy is dissipated mainly as heat. Modern discharge lamps like high pressure sodium (HPS) and metal halide convert (typically) 30% to 40% of the electrical energy into light. They are significantly more efficient than incandescent bulbs.

Since plants use energy between 400 and 700 nanometers and light in this region is called Photosynthetically Active Radiation or PAR, we could measure the total amount of energy emitted per second in this region and call it PAR watts. This is an objective measure in contrast to lumens which is a subjective measure since it is based on the response of the subjects (humans). PAR watts directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis.

The output of a 400 watt incandescent bulb is about 25 watts of light, a 400 watt metal halide bulb emits about 140 watts of light. If PAR is considered to correspond more or less to the visible region, then a 400 watt metal halide lamp provides about 140 watts of PAR. A 400 watt HPS lamps has less PAR, typically 120 to 128 watts, but because the light is yellow it is rated at higher lumens (for the human eye).

"Illumination" for plants is measured in PAR watts per square meter. There is no specific name for this unit but it is referred to as "irradiance" and written, for example, as 25 watts/square meter or 25 w/m2.

Photons

Another means of measuring light quantity for plant growth involves the understanding that light is always emitted or absorbed in discrete packets called "photons." These packets or photons are the minimum units of energy transactions involving light. For example, if a certain photosynthetic reaction occurs through absorption of one photon of light, then it is sensible to determine how many photons are falling on the plant each second. Also, since only photons in the PAR region of the spectrum are active in creating photosynthesis, it makes sense to limit the count to PAR photons. A lamp could be rated on how many actual tiny photons it is emitting each second. At present no lamp manufacturer does this rating.

Instead, plant biologists and researchers prefer to talk of the flux of photons falling each second on a surface. This is the basis of PPF PAR with PPF standing for Photosynthetic Photon Flux, a process which actually counts the number of photons falling per second on one square meter of surface. Since photons are very small, the count represents a great number of photons per second, but the number does provide a meaningful comparison.

Another measure appropriate for plant growth, called YPF PAR or Yield Photon Flux, takes into account not only the photons but also how effectively they are used by the plant. Since red light (or red photons) are used more effectively to induce a photosynthesis reaction, YPF PAR gives more weight to red photons based on the plant sensitivity curve.

Since photons are very small packets of energy, rather than referring to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 photons, scientists conventionally use the figure "1.7 micromoles of photons" designated by the symbol "µmol." A µmol stands for 6 x 1017 photons; 1 mole stands for 6 x 1023 photons. Irradiance (or illumination) is therefore measured in watts per square meter or in micromoles (of photons) per square meter per second, abbreviated as µmol.m-2.s-1

The unit "einstein" is sometimes used to refer to one mole per square meter per second. It means that each second a 1 square meter of surface has 6 x 1023 photons falling on it. Irradiance levels for plant growth can therefore be measured in micro-einsteins or in PAR watts/sq. meter.

These three measures of photosynthetically active radiation, PAR watts per square meter, PPF PAR and YPF PAR are all legitimate, although different, ways of measuring the light output of lamps for plant growth. They do not involve the human eye response curve which is irrelevant for plants. Since plant response does "spill out" beyond the 400 nanometer and 700 nanometer boundaries, some researchers refer to the 350 – 750 nanometer region as the PAR region. Using this expanded region will lead to mildly inflated PAR ratings compared to the more conservative approach in this discussion. However, the difference is small.

So though they acknowledge that ppf and ppfd are good ways of measuring light they focus on how much enery is converted by the lamp in the 400-700nm PAR spectrum. If I understand it correctly they measure the energy of the photons between 400 and 700 nm, but express that in energy.

The claimed highest PAR Watts unfortunately doesn't seem to correlate with high growlight output. Don't ask me why, I never calculate with PAR Watts.

 

[joe fresh]

hey wazzup have you tried the bulbs or ballasts from advanced nutrients? i was just curious if they were any good

 

[whazzup]

No we haven't yet but I'm pretty sure I spot them before. I posted about is, maybe in this thread.

Edit, yes, here