Ulbricht sphere PAR test (PPF) of several popular 1000W lamps

[farmari]

I just did some light meter testing with a 1000w Hortilux bulb and Micromole ballast combo and the lumens per watt actually dropped when overdriven to 1150w. The lux was 11% higher at 1150w compared to 1000w. 1000w was the most efficient setting, with 850w slightly more efficient than 1150w, and 600w the least efficient. (no surprise there at least) I don't have equipment to test PAR though.

Oddly enough, testing the same spot with the same reflector, a Quantum 600w ballast with a 600w Ushio HPS bulb scored over 10% higher per watt than all the Micromole+Hortilux settings. The Ushio is new and the Hortilux has had about 500 hours of use.

I should re-test everything at all corners and center of the tent, as this result may be because of a different light spread. The size of the bulb may be giving a misleading result due to a different reflective pattern.

 

[whazzup]

When you use a lux meter you will also register the color shift of a lamp when you boost it. Some lamps perform better on some ballasts than other lamps. You can somewhat register this by measuring the input power of the ballast with an energy meter. If the ballast uses less with the same lamp wattage then you can be sure that the lesser will not give the same output power to the lamp. It is the lamp/ballast combination that will define the efficiency of the combination. That is why Philips designed theur ballast specifically for their lamp.

ppf/W can only be measured in an Ulbricht sphere. On a surface you can only test the uniformity of the lamp/reflector/environment combination.

 

[farmari]

Yeah, when counting ballast losses, the lumen per watt rating at 1150w was even worse, comparatively. The Quantum had a higher % of ballast losses but even when taking that in consideration was still over 8% higher lux per watt. (though again the difference may not be real as the reflective pattern is different with a 1000w bulb compared to a 600w bulb in the same reflector)

Is it possible to have a higher umol per watt while having a lower lumen per watt when boosting? Due to color shift.

 

[Rolldaddy]

Whazzup,

How do you approach the subject of how often to change out used lightbulbs? I'm also qurious what percentage of light output does a bulb decrease from when it's brand new till the time it burns out?

Thanks

 

[whazzup]

Is it possible to have a higher umol per watt while having a lower lumen per watt when boosting? Due to color shift.

Yes it is. For example our two plasma lamps, which have different spectrums. The difference is that the 41.01 has less red, and the spectrum is shifted more to the blue direction (green, and yellow). Those are colors for which our eyes are very sensitive. They score high on a lux meter.

41.02 is 300 umol, 17.000 lumens
41.01 is 310 umol, 21.000 lumens

@rolldaddy: that differs per manufacturer. Hortilux recommends between 9 and 12 month, we recommend to change our lamps once a year, as they have a very high light maintenance. Over 5000 hours you lose about 4% (or even less).

 

[Persiankid]

whazzup thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions.. just spent the last hour reading the thread and learning thanks to all of you for creating such an awesome discussion. Soo after all of that I somehow still didn't' manage to answer my question. I'm getting ready to set up a bigger operation. The space im working with has 3 phase power.. I don't know the voltage yet.. my sparky needs to thoroughly go through everything still. I'm planning on going all gavita pro 1000's for multiple reasons.

I'm wondering if your ballast's are multi tap ballasts or not? Also I was wondering since these lamps have such an awesome output compared to standard HID... i'm assuming they will take more btu's of a/c to properly cool my room. I usually go with 3-4k btu's per 1kw bulb. Do you by chance know or can you ballpark me on how many btu's per light I should plan on using? Thanks again
PK

 

[whazzup]

The BTU's also depend on your room (size, isolation) and climate (environment temperature). You can use the same amunt of BTU's that you would normally use for any 1000W open fixture lamp. In a moderate climate 3000-4000 BTU's is fine, in hot climates and large rooms this could go as high as 5000+. This includes the 60W ballast dissipation.

The ballasts are rated for 240V +/- 10%. 3 phase will be I think 120/208 or 277/480. The high voltage appliances are no longer household appliances and require the installation by a professional. Gavita Nederland, our horticultural mother company, produces electronic fixtures for the US 277/480V as they use in greenhouses. They require different plugs and cabling and have a different certification. IEC is not suitable for high voltages.

The problem with 120V ballasts is that they are less efficient, dissipate a lot of heat and require a lot of copper to cable. 480 3 phase is the most efficient way to cable, power and switch as you have the lowest currents and losses.

 

[Persiankid]

Thanks Whazzup!

 

[whazzup]

pleasure. Also depends how you use the cooling of course, whether you use a recirculating climate or just as cooling on hot days. For recirculating in a moderate climate I'd say 4000 would be adequate, but you always have to cater for the warmest environment temperature and the size and insulation of your room, so in case of a warm environment and a less than optimal insulated room 5000 BTU would probably be a safer choice.

 

[Cerro Bravo]

Hi Wazzup,

I am in the process of selecting lamps for a grow and just read the whole thread, very informative.

Given that the source-plant distance is critical (inverse square law) I find that the angle of dispersion and uniformity of the reflectors is of great importance. I have been thinking that once one determines which are the closest possible working distances (due to heat) for each type of bulb+reflector combination used, one would then be able to determine the optimal reflector radiating angles to give the covered area the adecuate amount of light.

Do you have information obout the Pro-Line and Triple-star reflectors.

I have been thinking of buying 600w instead of 1000w HPS lamps. I've found suggestions to use a 600W lamp at 45cm for each m2. How would the reflector dispersion realte to this?

I would really appreciate your comments.

 

[whazzup]

First of all forget inverse square law. It doesn't apply, it applies for a point source.

The safe distances to the lamps, as a guideline (overlapping lights can increase the distance):

Pro 600: 50-60 cm
Pro 1000: 70-80 cm (at 1000W) 80-90 cm (at 1150W)

 

[vwgtiron]

Say Wazzup.I have a question.
I am building new grow rooms. I was wondering how many lights you would put into a room that is 15ft x 15ft with 10 foot ceilings. Cooling will not be a problem. I was thinking 6k of the Gavita 1000w Pro DE. Along with supplemental lighting from LEDS. I cannot afford to stick a plasma in between each light yet. But after this it should be no problem. Any ideas or thoughts on this? Also would you hang the lights at 8ft? This will be a perpetual room. Plants coming into these rooms will be 4ft tall.

 

[Muleskinner]

Here's an excellent independent bulb test of 1000 watters, no Gavita unfortunately:

http://growershouse.com/blog/hid-bu...-solistek-lumatek-maxlume-growlite-ultra-sun/

 

[whazzup]

Say Wazzup.I have a question.
I am building new grow rooms. I was wondering how many lights you would put into a room that is 15ft x 15ft with 10 foot ceilings. Cooling will not be a problem. I was thinking 6k of the Gavita 1000w Pro DE. Along with supplemental lighting from LEDS. I cannot afford to stick a plasma in between each light yet. But after this it should be no problem. Any ideas or thoughts on this? Also would you hang the lights at 8ft? This will be a perpetual room. Plants coming into these rooms will be 4ft tall.

with that height distance is not an issue, and reflectivity of your wall material is.

You will need 10 fixtures in two rows. Distance between the rows 2.55m, and the distance between the centers of the lamps 0.95m.

At 1000W that will give you avg about 960 umol s-1 m-2 at 90 cm from the lamps,

At 1150W it will give you 1095 umol s-1 m-2 1 meter from the lamps.

 

[whazzup]

Here's an excellent independent bulb test of 1000 watters, no Gavita unfortunately:

http://growershouse.com/blog/hid-bu...-solistek-lumatek-maxlume-growlite-ultra-sun/

Unfortunately is it highly inaccurate as for absolute figures, but is does show the big differences between the lamps, same as our measurements. It would be handy if manufacturers would publish ppf.

 

[vwgtiron]

Thank you so much!!

Thank you so much!!

with that height distance is not an issue, and reflectivity of your wall material is.

You will need 10 fixtures in two rows. Distance between the rows 2.55m, and the distance between the centers of the lamps 0.95m.

At 1000W that will give you avg about 960 umol s-1 m-2 at 90 cm from the lamps,

At 1150W it will give you 1095 umol s-1 m-2 1 meter from the lamps.

Thank you Very much for the information. I appreciatte it a lot. I hope you had a great Easter Wazzup and Many happy thanks!! I will post a pic of the rooms upon completion!!!

 

[whazzup]

my pleasure. I am moving at the moment so going through old shit on the attic

 

[Muleskinner]

Unfortunately is it highly inaccurate as for absolute figures, but is does show the big differences between the lamps, same as our measurements. It would be handy if manufacturers would publish ppf.

independent is what it is, right? couple of guys in some store in Arizona. It does show what you get when you pay a little more for a quality US or EU made bulb.

as far as I'm concerned, Hortilux (also P.L. here in the US) and Gavita are the only two companies that provide an opportunity for amateurs to get professional-quality lighting gear.

Now, if only one of you guys would offer pro-line e-ballast lamps at 250w and 400w....