The Gorrilla Water Collar

[wisco61]

i was thinking of something like this, but with 1 liter soda bottles replacing the prongs of your original design. Still drilled and wrapped the same.

I like the thought of the water being delivered directly to the root zone, i think that helps with efficiency a lot.

i was always so good at art

 

[1stimer]

This is a great idea. Me and a buddy were sitting around thinking how we could replicate the "aqua globe" and this is just the answer.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

You know, while I was laying in bed last night, I was think about the shape of the collar, and I started thinking, "doe's it have to be pipe?". Couldn't you get the same affect by using a wide bottom bottle, or a bucket with the bottom drilled with holes and buried into the soil? As long as it is air tight, and some kind of root absorber/blocker is placed under it, it should function more or less like the collar.

My thoughts on depth seem to return to the question of how this device provides water to the plant. Apparently the plant grows many roots around the device according to Silverbacks description, it actually will try to grow them into the device itself.
This leads me to believe that the device doesn't evenly water the whole hole, but instead provides most of its water directly to the roots that surround it. If this is the case, it would explain why this device should be used with a water soluble fertiliser like Miracle grow to maximize efficiency.
Also, this is why I think the device should have a fairly large surface area, so more roots can attach to it. As for depth, I think it would be best for the device to be closer to the surface rather than deep in the hole, where more oxygen can reach the heaviest feeding roots surrounding the device, close enough for oxygen to reach easily, but not so close that large amounts of moisture can actually leach to the surface and be lost to evaporation. This leads me to believe the sweet spot should be about 3" to 8" deep, with 4-6" being optimum(I changed my mind from yesterday).

​

I hear your commercial growing friend, my area of Oregon/California is called the Appalachia of the west sometimes, lots of poor hill folk trying to make a living. We have been in a nearly perpetual recession for the last 20 years, and the fall in the housing market has nearly eliminated the need for lumber(no new building). People are getting layed off at the lumber mills, and prices for timber have fallen, meaning no emergency nest egg for private land owners.
My hours at work have been cut back, and making ends meet is more difficult, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and embrace some commercial growing to keep my family afloat this year, just a bit extra to make sure I can keep paying the house payment.

Sorry for the long post......

 

[Guest]

I tinkered with that same design wisco61, using 20 oz mt. dew bottles. I think it would be a very workable design. Look at the plastic ive added to the photo. I feel this will be a needed component to these systems to maximize their effeciecy.

1stimer, I spent more than a minute staring at the cats water bowl. My wife was telling her friends"he's lost it for good this time."


BC, the answer to your question is yes. You could use a fat bottle and in fact, i spent a while playing with a folgers 2lb plastic coffee container.

There is no question BC, that the larger the surface area the better. My thinking on the distribution of water and of the roots attaching to the device, is that this will only occur where the material surrounding the tubing, or bottle or whatever is conducive to root attachment, such as sponge or cloth material. I feel that if the device were installed without a wicking cover of some type, the water would leach out the bottom and the further you got from the device, the drier the soil would get. The roots would have a tendency to grow toward the device but wouldnt find anything to attach to. I hope to know the answers to many of these questions.

Our economy has always been poor, but in the past year, ive had people that dont even smoke come to me and ask me how to get seeds and how to grow it. Ive heard several times that the person had to do something or they were going to loose their homes. Ive told them what I can and offered help, but experienced growers know how easy it can be to end the season disappointed and a newcommers chances at harvesting a big crop on the first grow are hopeful at best. Its bad.




I was thinking about the water usage from the grow hole and how it is lost in ways other than that of being used by the plant or by the evaporation that only mulch will help control. The 3rd way would be for the surrounding soil to draw the existing soil moisture away from the root area and into the general soil.
It occurred to me that the installation of a simple piece of plastic sheeting could help to control the area able to draw moisture from the root area by providing a seperation between the soils..


The addition of this plastic under the device and behind it would direct moisture absorbtion toward the plant and away from the surrounding soil.

Look at this demonstration

If you can imagine this to be a cut away of the grow spot, the plastic would line that end of the hole so that water could only be absorbed toward the plant.




Just me thinkin

sb

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Yeah, I tested lining the holes with plastic in 2007, leaving a small hole in the bottom in case the hole got too much water due to rain. Here is a sample from my 2007 thread.

I decided to dig holes in the 30 gallon range, because I am looking for a large plant here-


To dig a hole of the correct capacity, I used some math:

1 cubic foot contains 7.48 US Gallons

1 cubic foot is a cube that measures 12" in depth, width, and length. To find cubic footage of a hole, measure its width, length, and depth, and then multipy each number like this for example- 2'x2'x3'=12

I want a 30 gallon hole, so I divide 30 gallons by 7.48, and get 4 cubic feet- 30/7.48=4.

So I need a 4 cubic foot hole, after some figuring I disover that a hole 1.5' wide by 1.5' long, and 2' deep will contain 4 cubic feet(or 33 gallons)- 1.5'x 1.5'x 2'= 4 cubic feet.


I decided to try something different this season, I lined the holes with plastic sheeting, cutting a hole in the bottom for drainage. The idea is to try and reduce loss of moisture and nutrition to the surrounding native soils. I tossed 4 Table spoons of Water holding crystals in the bottom of the hole, to help catch moisture leaving the hole.

OK, here is whats going in the hole:

3 gallons of llama manure, NPK 1-1-1(also to help raise organic content for moisture retention)
2 gallons of Peat moss(to help moisture retention)
2 cups(1TBS per gallon) of Kelp meal for Potassium and trace minerals
2 cups of Azomite(similar to Dolomite, interchangable) for Cal,Mag and PH buffer
2 TBS 12-8-4 Seabird guano
8 TBS of water holding crystals total

First I filled the hole 1/2 way with native soil, then I dumped the llama manure and Peat moss on it, and then mixed it well-


Next I added 4 more TBS of Water holding crystals(front white pile), my Azomite(on left), and my Kelp meal(on right)-


I continued to mix these amendments and fertilizers together, mixing in more native soil to raise the holes surface to natural ground level-


I transplanted the plat to the plot, she is a OR95x C99-


At this point she is about 9 weeks old, and nearly 12" tall, its about 15 weeks to the start of bloom, and 24 weeks to harvest-

My final evaluation was that the water I gave was used much more efficiently as intended, to the point that several of the older plants grew so fast that they showed signs of root binding with shortened growth in the mid to later season(less distance between nodes), with fat dense buds that were less mold resistant. But I got much more return in bud for the amount of water I gave.

Also, the plants were totally dependent on me for water, they could not branch out in the soil looking for what little moisture was there, once they used the water I gave them last they needed more. This was mostly just a problem for my largest plant, few of the others ever showed shock from lack of moisture.

If I do the hole lining again, I'll just cover the sides of the hole on the upper half, and leave the bottom half open.

Plot HM#1, C99xOR95, October 11th-
My star plant, by this time i had harvested about 2 oz already-

Here is what my largest plant looked like near harvest(the same one I'm planting above), notice that the end of many of the branches is a cluster of tightly packed together colas, so close that many appeared to be one, this is a sign of root binding(this plant was never topped or trained to encourage bushiness).

Also notice the bucket in the pics, this was a attempt to extend time between visits, and is similar to the collar idea, mine was not as sophisticated though, it was simply a 2 gallon sealed bucket with a tube running into the ground. I'd give the plant 2 or 3 gallons straight, and 2 more would go into the bucket to be slowly drained into the soil in much the same fashion as the collar works. It indeed freed me up to one visit once a week rather than twice. I know the bucket is bright white, but I placed it after the plant was huge, and it effectively hid the bucket with its bushy foliage(until the plant thinned out late in the season when this pic was taken), but it should have been painted or covered.

 

[blynx]

i was thinking of something like this, but with 1 liter soda bottles replacing the prongs of your original design. Still drilled and wrapped the same.

I like the thought of the water being delivered directly to the root zone, i think that helps with efficiency a lot.

i was always so good at art

Just me thinkin

sb

Any danger of these buried bottles collapsing, when empty, due to soil weight?

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Hmmm, good point. Maybe more rigid, thick walled containers would be called for.

 

[Guest]

Ill bet we all know the answer to that and many other questions come september blynx. I posted this up so each member can experiment and innovate. One person experimenting can be slow.
Most plastic is fairly rigid but when I looked at Wisco's set up, I had to chuck the drinking water bottles because they were such thin plastic. I substitued Mt. Dew 20oz bottles and everthing was fine. I don't think , as long as their isnt too much soil weight on them that they will collapse since they only bury a few inches. Avoid stepping where they would be located as they could be crushed. I also considered burying a 2 litre bottle sideways and since it is 3.5" tall, I considered that it would only have 1/2-1" of soil on top of it.

I have to add that regaurding the 2 gallon arrangement shown above, i worry that both bottles would collapse as there is no air availability. Its a completely closed system

Thats very good info about the plastic lined hole BC. You've advanced me one whole season with your efforts. Im going to copy it except like you say, Im going to leave the bottom open so that the plants roots can spread if they need to. Evaporation and having to water soil with no roots leads to major water loss, but so does the sucking off of the moisture by surrounding soil in a big way. The 1/2 plastic liner should prevent that.

 

[PHB]

Just a thought...

Perhaps a shallow ring of plastic liner (6"-8" deep only) without lining the bottom of the hole would prevent much of the water from leeching to surrounding soil but still allow the plants roots to find moisture elsewhere.

PHB

 

[Guest]

That's an excellent idea PHB. One i have included in my current calculations. It would serve to seperate the soil from the surrounding soil which would prevent the moisture in your spot from escaping into the infinity of the surrounding soil. While at the same time, not interfering with root development. Theres no question that should increase water retention.

 

[Mc__Nugget]

im definitely going to test this out with a res, as most of my plants wont be visited as often as needed when using 2 liter botles. what if to prevent the soda bottles from crushing as they might with blynx's idea you filled them with gravel like silverback suggested earlier, i dont know if they would need to be wrapped with anything, but maybe i will try some with and some without this way, surface area is increased, while the bottles can still maintain some of their rigidity, also, if no wrap was used, roots would be able to grow into the gravel and utilize water as needed, not whenever the soil dried. this should definitely be in the d.i.y. linkorama

 

[Hindu Killer]

Hmm maybe I could have a 10 ft piece of that pvc buried...ends capped holes in it all over..then have it hooked to the water line so when I water it is at root level?? 15 yrs ago a old grower told wider holes not deeper. Cool concept got the wheels turning...SB what up ??

 

[FreezerBoy]

Brilliant!

 

[Guest]

Hey HK!. Glad you dropped in. As I watch the weather, I hope you have a good snow shovel! The 10' pipe sounds like a good idea, but as we've worked our way through this, we 've found 1 idea leads to another. I'll bet there will be modifications.

Hi Mc Nugget. I considered your idea and initially went with it. Logic forced me in the end however, to admit that filling the rez space with something other than water served to diminish the volume capacity of the water source. It is true though, that the bottle filled with gravel and sponge pieces would attract roots directly to the cavity. toots will attach to sponge pieces. I suspect that we wont know which approach performs best until next october.

I like it BC. Its clear we both have a final goal of providing some moist soil to the plant at all times, as opposed to trying to supply moisture to the entire hole and root system. There isn't a lot of expense in the design either which is a necessary aspect.

I take it that the resevoir can either be a satelite feed or some type of feeding bottle attachment..

What is the lowest depth that water would be released out of the centered container? Do the roots at that depth utilize water?

That's a big question for me. It's my view that any in- ground plant hole 24x16 is adequate to grow about any cannabis plant around. Do all root in that 24x16 area have the same capacity for moisture and nutrient absorbtion? Do those 12" deep roots have the same capacity for moisture absorbtion as those 3/4" deep?

Do cannabis roots search for moisture at the drip line as does a tree?

Is there any way to coax the roots toward the water source?

 

[chongsbuddy]

you guys really sparked a brainstorm in me.i have been thinking non stop about this.The original idea is the best to me.i am thinking about 2-3 feet or so of 2"pvc tube put in a coil.the 2 ends go into a tee that has a 3/4" reducer coming out the top of the tee.the coil is about 6-8" down in the soil with a 6" piece of 3/4 inch pvc running up 1 or 2" out of the soil,the end would be threaded for a 2 liter pop bottle about an inch or 2 out of the surface of the soil.I can buy the tee's for $1.88 a piece,i have 100 feet of 2" pvc tube.the bottle doesnt bother me in turns of stealth,by the time july rolls around you wont even be able to see the bottle becaue of the bushiness of the plants.last year i was worried about my black grow bags,but sure enough,by the end of july you could'nt see the bags at all,really the end of june.2-3 feet of 2" pvc holds a lot of water, i dont know how much,but i know its a lot.

 

[bagseed77]

i went fro first to last page butisaw something simialar on PBS , its called a french well method and looks killer , google

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Silverback- I imagine all the roots absorb water, and I do think they will seek it out whether its in the top of the hole or the bottom. The roots that migrate closest to the device will sense the higher moisture content, and grow more roots until they hit pay dirt.

Most tree species that don't reside on creeks in my area have deep taproots that go way down so they can get enough water to grow and survive during our always rainless summer(and damn we got tall trees out here).
Exceptions in this rule are the Alders and Red Cedar which like to grow in marshy areas or next to streams, they have shallow, lateral root systems, and often blow over in bad storms because of it.

But back to Cannabis, with the system I outlined above, I would use a 2 gallon container(I happen to have many 2 gallon buckets with lids), and place it at the bottom of a 2' hole, directly below the plant, I doubt she will have a problem finding it.

I also think the device would provide moisture that will migrate up and out into the hole, so the plant should benefit regardless, but I'm sure the plant will grow roots directly into the Peat "wick", and drink heavy.

I also think there is a side benefit here, because of the air-gap needed to run the refill system for the device, fresh oxygen is introduced to the lower root system, which I can't help but believe could be quite beneficial to the plant.

EDIT:
I changed the drawing of the GSWD(Guerrilla subterranean watering Device) to show the reservoir in a extension of the main hole rather than in a separate hole, and also added illustrations of how the water and air would infiltrate the soil of the hole.

 

[RudolfTheRed]

what about something like this. these things are called aqua cones. they are like 9 dollars on the website but i assume it would be easy to rig up a DYI version with PVC piping. they around about 8 inches long and 2 inches round. stick 3 of these around your plant and you'd probably be okay for awhile. what do you guys think?

 

[RudolfTheRed]

found this on the same site. its called a water ring. same idea as yours silverback except it costs 25 dollars. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

http://www.gardeners.com/Tree-Watering-Ring/33-918,default,pd.html

 

[Guest]

Yeah Rudolf... I need that 25 for seeds

I think 1 would do it Rudolf.

I believe the device you are displaying will work, and you can produce it for far less than 25!

I still have some major testing going on as we speak. I have 2 experiments to be checked this morning for assesment. I need the answer to a number of question which I hope to have shortly.

Its my belief that the final design will feed and water the plant with 2 gallons of water and that supply be adequate to allow the plant to flourish for a 14 day period under conditons of 95 degree heat, single digit humidity and windy. Im getting closer. Illl be back.