Pipedream"s 150w Tiny Bubbler System

[Pipedream]

What do you think about trying the deep water/bubbler system on a pot and tray system

Bubbling trays works fine for starting off, but once the roots really start to grow, there is no place for the root mass to go and expand into. The system you linked to is specifically designed for trees or plants that will eventually be transplanted out-doors or into large containers, so the roots are contained on purpose. If you are not going to transplant, you'll likely need different pots, unless you are doing a single-cola sea-of-green.

 

[cosmik debris]

That was kind of the idea.
Having been originally inspired by Doc, Anti, Thundurkle, Smith, Strydr, Red, Blynx, Verdent and many others here I was looking for a way to go more hydro with the whole micro SOG garden to simplify the drench watering method that seems to work so well when they use soil. The problem is that I'm inherently lazy and forgetful as hell.
My thought was to try and standardize the logistics and automate the process a bit if you will.

Let's say you used something like those 2 1/2" seedling tubes and racks in tubs, but replaced the soil mix with a selection of the smaller Hydroton fired clay balls. Start clones by sticking them right down in the media and using the bubbler system with an appropriate light source/cycle. As the clones root (using Doc's approach) pull the whole tray, or just select tubes from it, and move them directly into the flowering cabinet.

The flowering cabinet would use the same bubber DWC system. Your Dollar store pots basically being represented by the rectangular tubs that the seedling tube racks are suspended over. The tubs could have a couple of ceramic ball airstones dropped in on each corner (I prefer these because they stay down without clips or weights and can be soaked in bleach or vinegar to clean and demineralize them when necessary), and tied back into a valved manifold system just like yours.

Another thought was that one seedling tube could be removed and a small recirculating pump could be set in the bottom of the tub where the tube had been. This would help assure no dead zones in the water between the seedling tubes.

Another thought that I had for all of this was that an overflow bulkhead fitting and drain tube could be fitted near the top to allow adding a timer controlled auto topping system sort of like the Ebb & Flow to keep the levels topped off when one is unable to tend his garden for an extended period.

A fitting with a drain could be attached near the bottom so that when a tub needs to be removed for cleaning it could be drained, pulled out and a fresh one put in its place with no hassle or danger of trying to lift a tub with gallons of nutes sloshing about.

With the exception of the mixing caused by the top off system (supposing that it was fed by a single pump from a common reservoir) the advantages of your isolation of each phase of growth is somewhat maintained rather than risking the entire grow to a common ailment. The seedling tubes make it easy to rearrange plants within the racks to compensate for any unbalanced growth or lighting issues and the racks would keep the manipulations of the plants themselves to a minimum when going from spot to spot in the system. If the nutes to each tub needed to be more specialized or tweaked the auto top off system would just have to include more, smaller reservoirs each with their own dedicated pump and plumbing.

The same racks could again be incorporated into a re-veg cabinet and on and on. The only part not using the same racks and tubes would likely be the Mom's box.

So what'cha think...overly complicating in an attempt to overly simplify or does it sound like it may have some merit. I love your cab and system, it's just that micro SOG and space requires me to modify my approach somewhat and I've been trying to come up with an way to incorporate the advantages of a variety of different methods into one. Also wanted to try something like this with one of them new fangled LED arrays instead of the CFL's, T-5's or MH's. The green light was cool too. Matter of fact there's some good stuff on the LED forum about full spectrums with IR and green included that are supposedly capable of producing more of a sun grown taste from indoor buddage.

Thanks again for keeping up with this thread and continuing to help.

 

[Pipedream]

Sounds like you've given it a good deal of thought. I'd go for it and then make any needed adjustments as you move forward. Tweaking or dialing in a new system as you go is fairly standard. Don't get upset if it all doesnt work first time out of the gate and when modding only change one variable at a time. Best of Luck.

 

[Bottled Cat]

I am sorry if this question is out of place, but your 150W system was what inspired me to purchase a 150W HPS. I have a 2x2x5 grow tent, and am waiting on getting a 440CFM fan. I was contemplating building a 17"x17"x34" grow box, with 8 42W CFLs (21600 lumens). Can anyone help point me in the right direction between flowering in that smaller box with CFLs vs flowering in the grow tent with a 150W HPS? I just want whatever is best (yield & potency). Thanks

 

[Pipedream]

If you have the luxury of having two areas to grow in, many find it very beneficial to sprout and veg under the CFL's and then move to the 150 for flowering. This will allow you to get the most out of each plant and also be able to rotate your crop at various intervals. Keep the CFL's going 24x7 and the 150 on a 12/12 cycle all the time. Check out the 150w HPS Club for many similar like-minded growers. They are always ready to lend a hand with their knowledge.

 

[outdoorkush]

nice grow would like to have a box like that for myself

 

[terag1e]

In your containers, you stated they were ~5 litre. Was that capacity maximum capacity, or the capacity at normal levels below the netpots?

 

[Pipedream]

In mine, just under a gallon I'd guess. In reality, it doesn't matter how much is in there, as long as the roots are kept wet. The only thing that changes with larger or smaller containers is the amount of time between refills.

 

[zuko]

May i begin by saying its an honor to learn from a true professional. I have a walk in closet n would like to run a similar set up. I want to kno more about the air pumps: what kind of pump and how is it wired? how loud is it?

 

[Pipedream]

Right now I'm running (2) Dual-Output Standard Diaphragm Pumps. These are the typical pet store/aquarium type, but I chose ones that were rated for deep water tanks. These keep everything bubbling away and are very quiet as they do so. I gave up using the piston pump a while back. The small amount of addidional air it was pumping was not worth the noise, the heat it generated, or the need to oil it every couple of weeks. It was fun to have it pumping away and watch it work, but not really worth the effort.

Do yourself a favor when selecting a new airpump, especially a deepwater or heavy-duty one. Go to the local petstores and have them plug them in before you purchase it. You'll be surprised at just how loud some of them are, even the diaphragm type. But once you find the one you like, check out xxx.PetSolutions.xxx online, I found their prices and service to be tops.

As far as the wiring goes, these have a standard plug and are left running 24x7 (full-time) so they are just plugged directly into an outlet strip.

Good Luck, PD

 

[cosmik debris]

I'm pretty involved with aquariums and couldn't agree with your take more. The piston pumps will usually drive better pressures deep, but we're not talkin' Jules Verne here, and the heat/noise is totally unacceptable...especially if stealth is of any concern. I would only ad that when choosing a diaphragm pump, that you select one that has rebuild kits available for it. Generally speaking you get what you pay for and the cheaper brands that you find at WalMart and the like (Tetra, Penn, etc.) are basically throw aways.

I've had good success with Fusion pumps. Pretty inexpensive and they do have rebuild kits available. The diaphragms do gradually wear out over time and I typically replace mine every two years or so. Results may vary.

For this type of application in a stealth set up I was thinking of trying the Hydor submersible style. I've had good service from them in fresh water tanks, and they are the ultimate in stealth since they only require an air line for their intake and the entire pump itself is submersible.

Not pimpin' for him but Ken's Fish is a family operation that is one of the best priced and straight dealing suppliers on the net. Very accommodating and decent people to deal with. Check'em out before you hit Petco or Pet Dumb. Big Al's is also a pretty good source on-line, although usually not quite as well priced as Ken's. For larger commercial orders there's also a great place in Jersey (Ken is in R.I. I believe) called JEHMCO. Their pricing is good and their service is outstanding.

http://www.jehmco.com/html/products_.html

http://www.kensfish.com/airsupplieslinkpage.html

 

[cosmik debris]

If you don't have overwhelming noise concerns I have had good service from the Eco piston pumps. They put out a ton of air and don't require oiling. I have a couple that have run 24/7 for several years now. Chinese made but holding up pretty well so far, just noisy and hot. Keep 'em well ventilated for best results, but I'd still suggest starting with a bigger diaphragm first for this type of use. If you were running a greenhouse Jehmco's blowers are good for massive shallow water applications but I doubt anyone here could use that much air.

 

[stonedwarrior]

Thank You.
Really... Thanks... I've been a member of another forum of this same nature for months and not even seen a thread even close to this one... 5 years on and still going strong... damn....
I have plans for a similar system in a cupboard, but I have a couple of ideas that I want to do to make it my own, and I'd just like to ask for any ideas or suggestions that you may have..

First - how big could you theoretically veg your plant in the 5 ltr pot before you had root bind problems?

Um, second, I dont like the idea of rockwool - I just have a feeling that it'll f up...
So, if i used a neoprene pool noodle to hold the plants in (same as in sukonmiskunks bubble cloner) could you forsee any problems? I only intend to have plants approx 2 feet tall at harvest time, if that.

Third - I intend to only use 4 5 ltr pots, could i put a very small float in so that they are constantly topping up with fresh water (im not interested in RDWC) without potentially effecting roots?

Sorry, im REALLY baked right now on my current soil grows mum, so I dont know if my questions make as much sense as theyre supposed to... Um, I think I've forgetten something as well, so I'll check back in tomorrow morning and clean this up maybe ask you a few more questions...

Again - Thank you for a super informative thread, It's like you've taken my idea straight out of my head and made it BETTER...

 

[Pipedream]

As long as you keep everything wet and well aerated you won't have a root-bound problem as you will in a soil based grow. And if things get tighter than you like them, you can always easily trim the roots with little effect if any on the plant.

Neoprene pucks are fine if you prefer to go that way. The major issue with them tends to be not offering enough support to hold a larger plant, as they only contact the stalk at one specific point.

I've tried to use float-valves and never had success when placing them within the same container as the root mass. It always seems to be a recipe for disaster. If auto filling is a requirement, I'd consider a different system.

 

[Serioussmoke]

I really think that is a cool Idea this was with a single 150w bulb? my buddy told me that in a space about hte size of yours I would get liek no product form it hwo much do you gaine per harvest?

 

[Pipedream]

These days my harvests are very sporatic in that I'm constantly changing how many plants I grow and the time durations for vegging them. My aim is to produce just enough pain relief for my own needs, with a minimum of work, and have a small amount in reserve to carry me over in the case of a crop failure of some type.

I can usually produce about an ounce of trimmed, dried, and cured bud from each plant I grow. Of course back when I had 6 in the box at the same time, the lighting and space restrictions did drop the per/plant amount a small bit.

 

[Scottish Research]

Hey Pipedream,

Thanks so much for starting this thread. I have really enjoyed it!

Great education...

Respectfully,

R. Fortune

 

[Serioussmoke]

oh that is so awesome. I told him I could produce and oz a plant. with 6. or roughly that and he told me one oz total from all 6. Thanks for you thread man really a godsend.

 

[FireGuy70]

very nice

 

[desdinova]

copied the box ... kinda

copied the box ... kinda

hello , fell in love with your box and basically made the same from plywood . some differences are that i mounted the hardware below in a drawer so it can be pulled out and serviced without opening the main cabinet doors . i used a hydrofarm reflector hood which can be lowered via small chain , and i went with three / two -port air pumps with volume adjust . it's 90% complete and there will be photos when i figure out how . your post was like forever long and i'm sure every question asked has been covered , but i didn't want to search . here's mine ... do you sweat EC ? do you check it , how often , what do you do about it ? and if each customer can have more than one question , then my second would be , do you mist and if so do you just use water or a spray and grow ? thanks