"fresh air" vs co2 rooms

[Lazyman]

I'd say CO2 ends up being way for trouble than it's worth 90% of the time, especially when aircooling lights. It doesn't even increase yields that much, it just makes plants ripen a little quicker. Just run more lights for more yield. C02 is just a hydro shop scam in my opinion. I find it funny how many people with unsealed rooms think that adding CO2 is going to give them better yields right off the bat...wasting money trying to maintain ppm's in an unsealed area or wasting money on electricity running 3 ton air conditioners to keep temps in check without aircooling. Take the grand that you were gunna spend on CO2 bullshit and buy a couple more lights.
20% increase from CO2... LOL maybe 5% at the MOST and thats WITH A SEALED ROOM ONLY. You would end up running 5 lights worth of juice with the A/C needed to cool the room during lights on and another light worth for the dehumidifier which would be constantly running during lights off.

And just how many 4000w sealed CO2 grows have you run? Sorry but I don't correlate a 250W grower with something 8X the size. 20% is a commonly accepted increase with CO2, I've had that myself on a 3KW.

Of course the room has to be sealed, and yes it requires a good handful of expensive equipment. But lots of guys are maxing out their spaces and want to get better yields, adding more lights isn't often practical so adding CO2 to a healthy grow is the best way to get better yields.

 

[250wscrogger]

I'm not exactly a 250w grower anymore. I only run 1800w right now which is still a micro grow... but I get over 1lb per light consistantly with 3 600's so I'm a pretty decent grower. No, I haven't set up any 4k sealed rooms with C02 quite yet but I'm also only 20 and already making damn good money doing this for a living with only 3 years of actual grow experience. Were you dealing with 2 dozen 2lb plants in a greenhouse or even growing at all when you were 20? I highly doubt it. Don't worry my 5k perpetual show will be up within 6 months or so when I'm settled in the new location and I'll post a nice diary for all the haters. Lights will be aircooled and I will not be using CO2, 10k btu A/C will keep temps in check. If lights were not aircooled I would need atleast a 2 ton A/C which runs 2000 more watts than the 10k btu A/C and I'd rather use that juice for lights is all I was saying.

The 20% more yield could have had more to do with other variables (healthier clones from the start ect) but to each his own.

 

[hydr1]

more lights is more power and more heat needing more ac which is more power.

there is no argument because both lights and co2 cost money and both increase yields.

but if your power bill and breakers are maxed and you cant fit another light into the room....for more yield you can either veg longer or run C02.

and that 20% number is actually lower than other things Ive seen...35% ect.

Its not a hydrostore myth...this shit goes down...but youll never know anything or be able to pass judgment untill you have done both.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I am almost certian you can get a NG hydrogen

Yes you can. It's just a few fitting, but they put it on for you. You can get the conversion kit, but unless you know what you are doing just order it set up for NG.

About CO2. From everything I've read about indoor horticulture, a properly designed CO2 setup will increase yields by 20% (low end). The key word is properly designed. It's not easy nor cheap IMO. But if you what max yields a good CGE room is the only way to get there. You control every variable in the equation.

 

[250wscrogger]

It just seems like 20% + increase is impossible, but I have never ran CO2 myself so I really shouldn't say anything I guess.

 

[Lazyman]

It just seems like 20% + increase is impossible, but I have never ran CO2 myself so I really shouldn't say anything I guess. People hit #2 a light without it all the time and I know that much.

You've never run CO2, but are happy to claim it doesn't work.

If you don't know, don't open your $%&ing mouth. This is how bad advice gets spread around!

 

[250wscrogger]

Not claiming it doesn't work, just doubting it does THAT much to increase yields because nobody with a dialed in setup/CO2 has ever made these claims. Wtf do you know anyway? You can't even hit #1lb per 1k TEEHEE.

 

[robotwithdreams]

well ive seen threads on other sites, welll documented pics, etc. pulling 4#s per 1000 watt thanks to hydro system and closed system with co2. SO , lets not argue about that, try it yourself. Just remember if supplementing with co2 AND higher than average amounts of light, the plants needs will increase, like more often waterings and higher levels of nutes.

CAn we talk about safety of propane burners indoors? What kind of safety precautions do you take? Ive never run it indoors out of primarily safety reasons and because i simply dont get to grow enough to have consistent space for it. However i have seen it in action myself, and was impressed.

 

[Lazyman]

Oh you're so full of shit, LOTS of guys have gotten large yield increases with CO2, you are just too lazy to look up threads that don't help your untenable position.

I bet I've been growing a lot longer than you 250wscrogger, and though my last couple harvests were shitty, all was explained in detail in my thread. I typically get 1.5-1.75# per light, without CO2:

 

[robotwithdreams]

I should add that the grower i referred to above with the amazing results on some other site did pretty much have years of experiance and the a perfect setup and room. But he does mention the cco2 enriched closed env. being one of the keys to his results.

 

[250wscrogger]

 

[SicKSKills]

keep personal emotion out of the thread please, nobody cares who you are or how much you grow cause there is always someone else doin ten times more and keeping their mouth shut about it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SpasticGramps again.

well done, sir.

 

[GSGrowdaddy]

Wow it got a little testy in here. lol. I'll stick to my original idea...if you can effectivly seal your growing area CO2 will help you boost your harvest but see how it works with out it and then decide if you need more. You can always add CO2 after you have established you basic system...I'm constantly tweaking my set up looking for ways to improve...I still think if you are limited to only using Tanks it will be a lot of trips to the gas supply store. I have to go almost every 2 weeks and you can only come up with so many reasons to use that much CO2. Just something to think about...not saying it wont work just might be more work than increased yield is worth with out the benifit of a CO2 generator.

 

[Germanator]

I guess it depends on the nature of your grow^.

If your grow keeps you too busy to enjoy life as is, then maybe you should rely on seasonal temperature and humidity fluctuation and keep an active exhaust. You will not have to worry about environmental factors contributing to your yield, because you will have very limited control over them.

If you rely on your grow for income then you might be willing to refill your tanks twice a month, or have a NG line run to your space, because your grow is an investment and not so much a hobby at that point.

The science is there and with a small amount of time you can design a Co2 enriched environment, and find out for yourself the yield increases that are being debated.

 

[GSGrowdaddy]

I guess it depends on the nature of your grow^.

If your grow keeps you too busy to enjoy life as is, then maybe you should rely on seasonal temperature and humidity fluctuation and keep an active exhaust. You will not have to worry about environmental factors contributing to your yield, because you will have very limited control over them.

If you rely on your grow for income then you might be willing to refill your tanks twice a month, or have a NG line run to your space, because your grow is an investment and not so much a hobby at that point.

The science is there and with a small amount of time you can design a Co2 enriched environment, and find out for yourself the yield increases that are being debated.

True

 

[SpasticGramps]

I'm reading this book at the moment.


My room is designed to room sealed, but is running ventilated first so I can get used to it. CO2 changes the morphology of a plant. The horror stories you hear about CO2 is not because of the science, but rather the faulty method used to try and employ CO2 fertilization.

If you never driven a sports car before and I put you in a Ferrari Enzo, you may look cool standing next to it, but you are going to look pretty silly trying to control that much power if all you have ever driven is a bicycle.

I'm still learning about it and when I do seal the room and turn on the gas, I'm going to slowly work my way up to the 1500ppm, 83-85degree temp target.

Because my whole grow area is one sealed unit I'm going to have to deal with CO2 in veg, which is apparently quite another ball game.

CO2 fertilization maximizes the genetic potential of plants. It's thought that when plants evolved there were x3 the levels of CO2 in the air and this is why they can handle so much more than is present in the atmosphere at the time. Makes sense maybe. This is stuff I'm picking up in this book. It's quite good so far. Lazyman's CO2 thread covers much of what's in here, as does the search button here on ICMag, but it was worth the ~$10 IMO. Makes for a good consolidated source for CO2 bathroom reading material.

 

[supermanlives]

i have a 4x4x8 grow tent inside a sealed room . i use c02 to just replace whats normally there in fresh air. i dont expect astounding results. need another fan and ducting. i use lp greenair cd6

 

[Phillthy]

seal the room as tight as possible and your burner will hardly run. a 20lb tank of propane last me months! @ 1500ppm

 

[Row]

After running sealed rooms for a long time now i can say with out a doubt its the only way to go if you can...you will undoubtedly increase your yields over a room with no co2. I went from getting 1.5 lb a light all day to 2- 2.2lb a light once i worked out the kinks ofc.

You could argue that instead of the ac i could have 25% more light, but even then the sealed room does better over all, and there is less work because you just get more from each light/plant.

One thing i dont see people mentioning is that even in a sealed room you need air flow, you just only need air flow through the lights off period and you dont need much.

In the lights on cycle plants as we all know photosynthesize, using co2 and giving off o2, but they also go through plant respiration where they use o2 and give off co2, this is fine when the plant is photosynthesizing as it can then use the co2 and give off more o2 etc. However at night when plant respiration is at its highest and there is no photosynthesis, in a sealed room the co2 will build up and the o2 levels will fall as no fresh air is drawn in, the opposite of what we want during the lights off period, this is why at night even in a sealed room you must vent all night. It doesn't need to be a huge draw just enough to keep the co2 levels down and the o2 levels up.

A good read about plant respiration here

http://www.answers.com/topic/plant-respiration

The other major problem i have encountered in moving to a sealed room is the problem of co poisoning, due to a burner not burning cleanly, this problem is easy to spot and fix when you know what is going on but if you dont it can be a pain to solve. All you really need to do is check your burner flame every now and then and make sure it is blue or clear with no yellow flame.

I also run my dump fan for 2 mins every hour during the lights on period, to draw any air pollutants out and generally freshen up the air.


some pics

first are of the co poisoning,

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Same plants 1 week into flowering, after fixing the problem.

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some bud porn for the sake of it

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