can males turn hermie and produce beans ?

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings.

How deep are these murky waters?

Well...let us wade right in and find out.


Is hermaphroditic expression possible in the male form?
Yes.
Can the male form produce seed?
No.


There is a tremendous difference between phenotypic expression (pistillate/staminate) and genotypic code (carpellate/non-carpellate).

I will attempt to keep this simple: What is needed to bear viable seed is more than the flowering hormones that govern expression, the genes that code for the formation of the ovule (and the ovary) are also necessary (and they don't spontaneously arise on a true male plant because it was exposed to female hormones).

Mohan Ram's work is based on a less complete understanding of sexual expression in Cannabis. The point that is often not cited is: in the experimentation, not every male plant that showed female flowers was then able to bear seed....just the occasional one.

As an explanation, this statement is now widely accepted: The plants in question were not true males, rather they were an extreme expression of the intersex trait (hermaphrodites).

Hermaphrodites that produce staminate flowers first and then pistillate ones are rare (because they are usually sterile), but they do exist and it is this that accounts for the misconcept of the 'male seedbearing plant'.


An aside: There are no naturally occurring conditions that will cause a male plant to produce female flowers.

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[DocLeaf]

^^ good info.

 

[Rgd]

A male can start off all male , later put out female pistils and produce beans.

True male, not true male..whatever

sts can and do produce males...they can be fertile

Reversing a reverse produced plant can have fine or not fine

out come.

Depending on the plant and perhaps a myriad of other factors

Scientists are cool but science always attempt to force us into believing that science knows, and it is a definate..
it many times isn't!

My science[reality]=what can happen, will happen

and it will and does.

Good vibes to all

 

[tiedye420]

Throw them into an 18/6 lighting schedule.
It's how i got my g-13 male to turn.. It's making some nice looking seedstock.

thanks 4 all the responses everybody . im gonna try it. by the way anyone know a good way to stress so they turn ?

 

[The Dopest]

ok so let me summerize on one in particular.

a male plant that puts on hairs after a few weeks of flower is ok to breed with a female of the same strain and not make hermie plants? i really dont want a bunch of herm seeds from my female, i would rather tie the male to the bumper and drag him through town.

 

[tiedye420]

I have A second male turning on me now...
It declared itself male a few months ago. Now it's flowering male parts everywhere.
Then last night I noticed some growth tips which looked to be female. It's chocolate thai from vision. He did say "there is some freaky stuff happening in that one" when he gifted me the seeds...
I have no more of these beans, so I guess I'll have to use the pollen on my girls...

My g-13 reversed male- Is in fact a true hermaphrodite. I spotted male flowers protruding from the female bracts. I have found two seeds in one bract before also- with a bannana inbetween them....It's making seed constantly...
I'm going to put it under 24 hour lighting soon to see if it will go back to a solid veg state.
tie

 

[tiedye420]

Dopest
In my experience ( I was making feminised and s1 in 1999) The theory is correct.
Some have found extreme stress can cause hermies in any cannabis, even cannabis bred with reversed males...
In this case I would have to say "using reversed males (hermies) causes a highr rate of females and a decreased rate of hermaphrodites".
Under normal conditions the "deherminized work" should not produce hermies at all.
But under high stress thay can.
hope this helps bro.
I have yet to mate a solid female and a reversed male, I'm working up a theory.
If a solid strain without hermie tendecies was pollenated to a reversed male.
What would be the outcome? would it remove any hidden traits- or add some hidden traits. Problem is with this type of experimentation it takes years.

 

[MaFFe]

hello all i was hoping som of you maby can help me out here i was planing to cross my deep chunk male whit a bubba kush and deep chunk female but i found 3 hairs on my deep chunk male so i was thnking about if i can still use it or ill all the seeds end up herma?

 

[MaFFe]

plz someone can help me out?

 

[esbe]

as i read this you have a very nice father to dust with. i never heard of naturel herma tendensis in dc, but i know you had a lot of ant probs in your pot and they might have stressed the plant to go herma. your dc is a backward hermaphrodite and djs words are clear:

" "Backward" hermaphrodites are declared males that eventually sport female flowers (as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites). These are rare occurences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I found to be genetically valuable. Many resinous and desirable males exhibit this trait, which almost guarantees against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female-to-male ratio in its progency."



Quote:
Originally Posted by ibtokin
Im under the impression that if a male hermie is used for reproduction, the female ratio should be very high in the resulting offspring. everything should have the tendency to turn female just like female hermies turn male. the inter-sex trait is usually very dominant in crosses made with a hermie.

male hermies are very valuable and can often 'fix' a strain that has high hermie tendencies. this is natures way of surviving and keeping everything in balance.
The Slickster:
You are absolutely correct, the seeds will be all female, the same as in feminized seeds, only in reverse but same results.

 

[fjällhöga]

Maffe ... the 1st pic is a real hermaphrodite .. , as it shows both genders from the start
if you use it for seeds , the herm trait will show in the next generations .. , think about ; all the beans are 50% of the hermi ...

@ least my observations showed this ... > Cherry Chunk

 

[esbe]

what is a "real" hermaphrodite? is it a male\female that shows both sex from start or a male\female that shows that shows the other sex after a while with a male branch for instance?

 

[fjällhöga]

hehe no , i call em real hermies as they flowered just like real hermies .. , with no stress or Sts or any sex reversal technique ...

which is for sure a different form of hermies than some late flower bananas

 

[The Slickster]

Yes I would agree that the male would have to first go into flowering and then later sport the sterile or unsterile "pistils" (luck of the draw), in order to declare it a backwards male. And that any strain immediately showing both pistils and stamen was a regular hermaphrodite the same as a female that showed bananas late. So that Deep Chunk should be deselected for breeding and or keeping the grow seedless as it can be a strain anomaly that possibly is triggered by environmental genetics.

 

[esbe]

super guys! maffes male was stressed by millions of ants in the pot. futher more no one ever had a deep chunk hermi as far as i know.

 

[Charles Xavier]

Greetings esbe

An aside: There are no naturally occurring conditions that will cause a male plant to produce female flowers.....C.X.

More likely (definitely, actually):"MaFFe's (fe)male was stressed by millions of ants in the pot."

In reference to post #30: The vast majority of cultivated specimens that display the intersex trait do not possess an active 'Y'-chromosome. This includes the specimens that display staminate to pistillate flower development. Therefore breeding with these specimens will absolutely result in a higher "female to male" ratio in the resultant progeny. However, the resultant progeny will also be carriers of the intersex causing gene (if the gene is..and there is a much higher statistical probability that it is...dominant or co-dominant).

In Cannabis, most naturally occurring 'hermaphrodites' are technically 'female'; these "males" being referenced are actually specimens expressing an extreme form of the intersex trait.

male hermies are very valuable and can often 'fix' a strain that has high hermie tendencies....ibtokin

This statement is both true and false. The "fix" is only phenotypic; the genetic base for the intersex trait is actually strengthened; however, since in most cases, the resulting progeny is more 'stress resistant' that the 'mother' due to the influence of the 'father' (that exhibits a hermaphroditic trait which is genetically controlled rather than stress induced), it appears as if the incidence of the intersex trait has decreased. But as the adage goes: appearances can be deceiving.

Sincerely,
Charles.

 

[Ktaadn]

"Backward" hermaphrodites are declared males that eventually sport female flowers (as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites). These are rare occurences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I found to be genetically valuable. Many resinous and desirable males exhibit this trait, which almost guarantees against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female-to-male ratio in its progency."

Interesting info! I had a "backward hermie" that pollinated a female. I wasn't sure about using the seeds, but now I certainly will!

 

[muddy waters]

MaFFe, I germinated 3 Deep Chunk seedlings recently and ended up with 2 females and a fully intersex (from the beginning) male. I even cloned the intersex male and flowered him twice to see and both times revealed pistillate flowers predominating at the top, and mostly staminate the further down the cola you went. I used this plant to pollinate several clones and will be testing the progeny. I hope that the intersex trait in the DC was not dominant; time will tell.

 

[TheBigGreen1]

I know this is an old post but I used the pollen from a backwards male ak to pollinate a ssh.
Every time a pollen sack busted open on the ak it spouted pistils. Only one small budsite produced actual male pollen. I used that pollen to make seeds on the ssh. It was the only male (and the last ak seed I had) at the time (no funds for another pack of ak), and I desperately wanted to make the cross. So I had to go with it.
Anyhow, every seed has been 100% female. I started 8 and all were fem with no male ball sacks. Everyone I gave seeds to also got all females, with no intersexing.
The plants are coming along very nicely. They are super sticky, frosty, and smell like a pack of life savers. They look like a shorter and denser version of ssh, with ak structure and leaves. I have crossed this mix with a nice c4/black russian male. I cant wait to get those beans going. I think that will be a real nice cross as well.

 

[richardwilliams]

reverse dc male

reverse dc male

Interesting thread folks. I just found a male dc in my outdoor patch that started out as a thinner leaf (for dc)and earlier flowering and today a week later went to lots of pistillate female tops. I will see if this pollen is viable against a female dc.
cheers, Richard.