Bill C-15 has passed in Canada. You will get 6 Months prison for one plant. ORGANIZE.
- Thread starter StrainCollector
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The Conservative government is expressing outrage after Liberal senators amended a piece of "tough on crime" legislation that had already passed the House of Commons -- and that Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff had supported.
Part of the original bill would eliminate the current two-for-one sentencing credit given to convicts who spend time in jail before their conviction.
The Senate justice committee voted to change that to time-and-a-half served, meaning convicts would get 1.5 days' credit for every day served pre-sentencing.
The amendment would also give judges discretion in awarding pre-sentencing credits, and would require an explanation for their decision.
The amendments have yet to be voted on by the full Senate, which is controlled by the Liberals, despite Prime Minister Stephen Harper's recent appointments to the Upper Chamber.
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said the amendments "basically gutted the bill."
"This what I've been worried about," he added.
The Senate's mandate is to review -- and amend if it chooses -- legislation before it becomes law. The House of Commons then has to approve any amendments.
Nicholson has called on Ignatieff to intervene and force the Liberal senators to drop the amendments.
"He should impose some discipline down there," he said.
Ignatieff supports the tough-on-crime bill. The move by Liberal senators only enhances the perception that the Liberal party is not fully behind its leader.
"I continue to believe that the bill should be supported unamended and that was Mr.Ignatieff's position every time it was voted in the House of Commons," Liberal MP Dominic LeBlanc said Wednesday.
Furthering the intrigue is that some of the senators supporting the amendments supported Liberal MP Bob Rae in his failed leadership run. Rae has refused to criticize the senators' decision, leaving the impression of a divide between him and his former rival Ignatieff.
Liberal Senate spokesman Marc Roy said the justice committee did its job based on the testimony.
"They are there to be independent," Roy said.
"If these (amendments) don't happen every once in a while then we really don't have an independent chamber or review process."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...7/crime_bill_091007/20091007?hub=TopStoriesV2
The Conservative government is expressing outrage after Liberal senators amended a piece of "tough on crime" legislation that had already passed the House of Commons -- and that Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff had supported.
Part of the original bill would eliminate the current two-for-one sentencing credit given to convicts who spend time in jail before their conviction.
The Senate justice committee voted to change that to time-and-a-half served, meaning convicts would get 1.5 days' credit for every day served pre-sentencing.
The amendment would also give judges discretion in awarding pre-sentencing credits, and would require an explanation for their decision.
The amendments have yet to be voted on by the full Senate, which is controlled by the Liberals, despite Prime Minister Stephen Harper's recent appointments to the Upper Chamber.
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said the amendments "basically gutted the bill."
"This what I've been worried about," he added.
The Senate's mandate is to review -- and amend if it chooses -- legislation before it becomes law. The House of Commons then has to approve any amendments.
Nicholson has called on Ignatieff to intervene and force the Liberal senators to drop the amendments.
"He should impose some discipline down there," he said.
Ignatieff supports the tough-on-crime bill. The move by Liberal senators only enhances the perception that the Liberal party is not fully behind its leader.
"I continue to believe that the bill should be supported unamended and that was Mr.Ignatieff's position every time it was voted in the House of Commons," Liberal MP Dominic LeBlanc said Wednesday.
Furthering the intrigue is that some of the senators supporting the amendments supported Liberal MP Bob Rae in his failed leadership run. Rae has refused to criticize the senators' decision, leaving the impression of a divide between him and his former rival Ignatieff.
Liberal Senate spokesman Marc Roy said the justice committee did its job based on the testimony.
"They are there to be independent," Roy said.
"If these (amendments) don't happen every once in a while then we really don't have an independent chamber or review process."
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...7/crime_bill_091007/20091007?hub=TopStoriesV2
Ive already been discussing with several of my gun buddies that private prisons are the wave of the future for money. A group of crazy california wannabe cops just stormed an abandoned prison in montana and are gonna make it their own prison. States like california who have huge overcrowding issues will outsource all those prisoners.
WHen i drive through my neighborhoods i see hundreds of future felons and gang bangers, there is no way in hell we can build enough prisons (and we shouldnt anyways).
Prison is fucking stupid, fill them up with murderers and rapists but drug offenses are such BULLSHIT, un fucking believable how sketchy governments are.
WHen i drive through my neighborhoods i see hundreds of future felons and gang bangers, there is no way in hell we can build enough prisons (and we shouldnt anyways).
Prison is fucking stupid, fill them up with murderers and rapists but drug offenses are such BULLSHIT, un fucking believable how sketchy governments are.
Any updates?
David420
Member
Same here. They were going in the right direction till the Bush Administration got involved, and arrested Marc Emery.
brownstormy
Member
Time for ya'll to move down to the kaleefonia. Your country seems to be taking crazy pills.
captain.koons
Member
Last I heard it was abolished because everyone thought it was stupid. At least that's what Jodie Emery said.
Satchifunkilus
Member
Thats nonsense Captain.
Bill C-15 still has yet to be ratified by the Senate, but nevertheless there is still a real and distinct possibility of it becoming law in Canada.
If this law passes I'll be closing up. What would you get for breeding seeds? I find the laws so complicated to understand. I had hoped we would have come a lot farther than this, seems other countries are pushing forward and we're in reverse. I see a pattern though, the states allowed public owned prisons and filled them up.... now we're allowing the same thing to happen and look who's in power... bush jr/jr, I'm seriously sick of this dude.
D
deepforest
"15. The provisions of this Act, other than sections 10 and 11, come into force on a day or days to be fixed by order of the Governor in Council."
What the hell does this mean? that it is going to come in force now???
What the hell does this mean? that it is going to come in force now???
SHittty
Virtually every statute or regulation passed by the House of Commons and the Senate does not automatically become law. It must first be proclaimed. If it is not proclaimed, the law is not in force. The fact it must be proclaimed is, itself, a section of the amendment to the Act.
Under the English system, the sovereign proclaims the law, after being "advised" by Parliament. In Canada, the Governor-in-council does that. Constitutionally, the "Governor-in-council" means the Governor-General.
From time to time, there are many laws which are passed, and even more regulations, which are not "in force" until they are proclaimed by the GIC to be in force. This is not unusual, it is in fact, the rule - not the exception to the rule.
You can expect that when the Senate passes Bill C-15 (and yes, that's a when, not "if", sadly) that the law will be proclaimed shortly thereafter.
About the only way I can see for C-15 to not pass is if it is amended by the Senate and sent back to the House of Commons -- and that in the interim, the government falls from a vote of no-confidence so that the Bill dies on the order table. That's the political equivalent in Canada of a 110 yard Hail Mary pass.
Otherwise, this is going to pass and we need to face the grim facts here. It's entirely regrettable, but there it is.
I have a lot of ideas as to how this has happened and who we ought to blame for it and how to prevent it from happening again, but, I'm still...reflecting.
That is not to say that the Tories are not to "blame" for this; they clearly are the proponents of the Bill. But the remarkable success Bill C-15 has had in public polls indicates that the Tory victory is a lot more complex than it would first appear to be. Canada has a population that is 54% in favor of legalization, yet they are 72% in favor of this Bill, if the Angus Reid poll is to be believed.
There are three possibilities:
1 - the question actually asked in the poll (or unpublished preceding questions in the poll) heavily influenced the results and we are therefore seeing significantly manipulated polling data;
2 - there was some sensational national news story which preceded this question in the few days prior to the poll which dramatically affected results; or,
3 - the data is balls-on-accurate and the marijuana movement, such as it is, utterly failed to persuade the public in Canada about the real nature of Bill C-15 and why it was a bad law.
Or, it's a combination of some or all of these factors.
I have no direct evidence of #2, ( But I have not looked carefully enough yet) so I'm inclined to believe in #3 while leaving open some additional possible influence of #1.
I am inclined to conclude that the so-called "Marijuana movement" in Canada is, in a phrase, pathetic, amateur and politically marginalized beyond redemption in its current form.
The biggest problem I perceive is this: despite the fact legalization of marijuana is now a majority opinion in the nation, the so called leaders of the MJ movement have deep roots in far left politics and, to be blunt, are perceived as political kooks by the majority of mainstream media and voters.
This, in turn, significantly prevents the MJ movement from raising funds to conduct counter-polls and influence mainstream media to get contrary messages out. 72% in favor?? Those are INCREDIBLE numbers. Care to name another Bill the Tories have proposed with that sort of support? You could propose a new national holiday, call it Free Steak and a BlowJob Day for every man in the country, and I'm not sure you'd poll 72% support for that Bill in a men's locker room. Those are simply massive numbers in a country that rarely agrees on anything.
Make no mistake, Bill C-15 is not simply a victory for the Tories, it is a crushing DEFEAT for the movement.
Canadian activists need to stop and reflect on what they are doing that is contributing to defeats like this. This should not be possible at a political level - not with the numbers in support of C-15 that Angus Reid was polling. Something has gone tragically wrong here.
I suggest that it is time to have a long dark tea-time of the soul, reflect upon some very harsh truths and dramatically rethink political strategy.
Because the more I think about it, the more Bill C-15's public support in Canada seems to be the product of the marijuana movement's abject and total failure to make their case to the public.
StinkyFgrs
Member
Yep,I'm thinking 5-6k for the 14 weekers.
DIRT DIGGLER
Active member
There is still a good chance senate wont pass this bill....I've read a few different statements from different senators,and have yet to find one that was in favor of it.
This would be a huge tax burden aswell as it would clog our justice system with an influx of more charges being laid. I've been watching C-PAC for the last week know..
The conservatives have no evidence to support their plan and they also have no financial figures as to how much this will cost if passed....they didnt do there home work.
Hopefully this doesnt pass...I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible...
go to prohabition.ca and write the senate.........THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
I've wrote them 3 times already,hope you do the same.
DIRT.
This would be a huge tax burden aswell as it would clog our justice system with an influx of more charges being laid. I've been watching C-PAC for the last week know..
The conservatives have no evidence to support their plan and they also have no financial figures as to how much this will cost if passed....they didnt do there home work.
Hopefully this doesnt pass...I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible...
go to prohabition.ca and write the senate.........THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
I've wrote them 3 times already,hope you do the same.
DIRT.
Harper appointed a slate of new Senators in August, 2009 to take effect in January to ensure passage of the government's so-called "tough on crime" bills.
Meanwhile, the Senate would have to be in a position to tell the House of Commons that amendment was needed, notwithstanding passage by both the Tories and Liberals in the House. Both parties control all but a handful of Senators in the Senate.
Because of Senator Nolan's high level position within the Conservative Party of Canada, it is possible that if he agrees to become the face of the Senate's opposition, that the Senate committee might dare to amend it and that amendment might be approved by the Senate and sent back to the Commons. This is a remote hope, at best.
But really - this is pretty much over, for the most part. Absent an intervening no-confidence vote, this thing is done. Moreover, the Senate reads the polls too. 72% of Canadians in favor of the Bill means the Senate would not simply be voting against the will of the House of Commons, but against the will of the Canadian people. To be blunt, it has the appearance of being a highly undemocratic opposition to the government's legislation. Without a collapse of public support for C-15, that's not going to happen.
And I don't see any such collapse coming. There is no effective opposition and the movement has been wringing its collective hands over Marc Emery's fate, not over C-15. There has been no polling conducted or released to cast the Angus Reid numbers in doubt and no media blitz to attempt to use the media to portray C-15 as a threat or a grave over-reaaching by the Government of Canada. Ignatief wants nothing to do with opposing C-15, either.
The five plant limit in C-15 is so low that it is the same as the minimum number of plants that Helath Canada approves for personal medical marijuana growing on a 1g per day MMJ examption. The average number of plants a MMJ licensed personal grower in Canada is approved for is three times that number FIFTEEN plants. That's for personal use and nobody suggests otherwise. But FIVE sends you to a mandatory jail sentence?
FIVE can attract a mandatory sentence as high as two or even three years. The number of people who know those details in Canada? I bet you those are facts known by only 10,000 voters or so. Public opposition to the Bill and the movement's using of the media to educate people on these factual issues has been essentially non-existent.
The only hope this thing was ever going to get derailed was for a public opinion offensive in late 2008 and early 2009, before it passed in the Commons so as to erode the public's remarkable support for this Bill. It didn't happen and it wasn't even close. All that has been left since the passage of C-15 by the Common in March 2009 was a non-confidence vote killing the Bill while it was still in the Senate Justice Committee. That hasn't happened either and it appears extremely unlikely it will ever happen now with Ignatief's numbers down and the NDP and Bloc voting to support the government.
Bill C-15 is a crushing political defeat and really indicts the whole far-left wing approach to what should be a mainstream political issue. I don't see how anyone can paint a happy face on this; instead, the stench of political failure is hanging pretty thickly around the so-called movement.
There needs to be some serious soul searching over this.
Meanwhile, the Senate would have to be in a position to tell the House of Commons that amendment was needed, notwithstanding passage by both the Tories and Liberals in the House. Both parties control all but a handful of Senators in the Senate.
Because of Senator Nolan's high level position within the Conservative Party of Canada, it is possible that if he agrees to become the face of the Senate's opposition, that the Senate committee might dare to amend it and that amendment might be approved by the Senate and sent back to the Commons. This is a remote hope, at best.
But really - this is pretty much over, for the most part. Absent an intervening no-confidence vote, this thing is done. Moreover, the Senate reads the polls too. 72% of Canadians in favor of the Bill means the Senate would not simply be voting against the will of the House of Commons, but against the will of the Canadian people. To be blunt, it has the appearance of being a highly undemocratic opposition to the government's legislation. Without a collapse of public support for C-15, that's not going to happen.
And I don't see any such collapse coming. There is no effective opposition and the movement has been wringing its collective hands over Marc Emery's fate, not over C-15. There has been no polling conducted or released to cast the Angus Reid numbers in doubt and no media blitz to attempt to use the media to portray C-15 as a threat or a grave over-reaaching by the Government of Canada. Ignatief wants nothing to do with opposing C-15, either.
The five plant limit in C-15 is so low that it is the same as the minimum number of plants that Helath Canada approves for personal medical marijuana growing on a 1g per day MMJ examption. The average number of plants a MMJ licensed personal grower in Canada is approved for is three times that number FIFTEEN plants. That's for personal use and nobody suggests otherwise. But FIVE sends you to a mandatory jail sentence?
FIVE can attract a mandatory sentence as high as two or even three years. The number of people who know those details in Canada? I bet you those are facts known by only 10,000 voters or so. Public opposition to the Bill and the movement's using of the media to educate people on these factual issues has been essentially non-existent.
The only hope this thing was ever going to get derailed was for a public opinion offensive in late 2008 and early 2009, before it passed in the Commons so as to erode the public's remarkable support for this Bill. It didn't happen and it wasn't even close. All that has been left since the passage of C-15 by the Common in March 2009 was a non-confidence vote killing the Bill while it was still in the Senate Justice Committee. That hasn't happened either and it appears extremely unlikely it will ever happen now with Ignatief's numbers down and the NDP and Bloc voting to support the government.
Bill C-15 is a crushing political defeat and really indicts the whole far-left wing approach to what should be a mainstream political issue. I don't see how anyone can paint a happy face on this; instead, the stench of political failure is hanging pretty thickly around the so-called movement.
There needs to be some serious soul searching over this.
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Ulu's Growstorys V3.5 | 0.5m² 170w | diverse Strains und Kreuzungen
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