Yellowing leaves. Help a confused grower.

[billspreston]

So I had this issue with my last grow and the result was some pretty airy bud of low quality. The older leaves start yellowing/wilting in late veg with very weak petioles and necrotic patches on the leaves. Red/Purple petioles are present throughout. New growth seems decent, however the newer leaves do seem kind of thin and wrinkly compared to what I would consider 100% healthly. I would love to get this problem solved. The issues seem to start when I begin adding nutrients about 25 days in. I don't notice any tip burn so I don't think I'm overdoing it and at my current doses of nutes I don't understand how I'm experiencing what my untrained eye identifies as Nitrogen deficiency?

A couple things to note. I noticed the bottle of Bio-Bizz Bio Grow I purchased during my last grow has an odd smell compared to the previous bottles I had so I'm wondering if I have acquired a bad batch? Has anyone heard of such a thing? I ordered a new bottle from an online retailer today as a precaution. I also have a slight thrip issue. Nothing out of control so I don't think they are the root cause of this problem, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for you help!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strain of Mj?
Mandala Satori & Mandala Kalichakra

From seed or clone?
Seed

Age of plant in question?
30 days of veg, 6 days of flower

Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)?
FFOF

Container/Pot size?
2 Gallon Airpot

Feeding schedule?
Bio-Bizz Grow (3ml per L), Bio-Bizz Bloom (3ml per L) with every watering

When were they last fed/watered?
Today

How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)?
Weight

Tap/RO/Distilled water?
Tap

Ph before and after adding nutrients?
6.5

Is your Ph equipment properly calibrated?
Hannah meter calibrated with buffering solution

Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage?
400w Ushio metal halide, 1 month old

Distance to the canopy?
12 inches

Temps?
74-78 degrees

Current air flow (CFM)?
6" Can Fan

Is there air blowing directly onto plant?
Yes

Relative humidity?
30-50%

Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)?
Scrog

Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched?
No

Pests?
Thrips

Chemicals used to irradicate?
Neem, just ordered some Spinosad.

If so,When?
2+ weeks ago

Photos:

^ Fallen yellow leaf #1

^ Fallen yellow leaf #2

^ Fallen yellow leaf #3

^ Still attached yellow leaf

^ Canopy Shot

^ New Growth

^ Close up of new growth

 

[Big D]

what are your temps during lights out?

 

[420GreenMan]

Looks like you are experiencing a lock out. P/K looks like the issue. Also Calcium. I would flush the plants then use a good all purpose. JMO Hope it helps.

 

[billspreston]

what are your temps during lights out?

Lights out temps range between 68-78 degrees.

Looks like you are experiencing a lock out. P/K looks like the issue. Also Calcium. I would flush the plants then use a good all purpose. JMO Hope it helps.

Thanks for your opinion. I have such a difficult time determining if I'm using too much or too little nutes. What causes a lock out? My ph has been solid and I don't think I've been overfeeding. I think the water is OK because the plants seem great until I have to start supplementing my soil with the Bio-Bizz products. Perhaps 3ml per L of Grow/Bloom each is too much of the Bio-Bizz? If I flush it seems like I'll just be running right back into the same problem.

 

[Big D]

I would say that it is too cold during lights out even though 68 isn't all that cold (it is strain dependent) but you want keep the drop only about 5 degrees between lights out and lights on. Try to keep the temps at 72 at night. See if that helps.

The yellow leaves around the bottom are just going to happen when flowering in a 2 gal pot. The roots just want more room.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong! Best wishes!

 

[420GreenMan]

Lights out temps range between 68-78 degrees.



Thanks for your opinion. I have such a difficult time determining if I'm using too much or too little nutes. What causes a lock out? My ph has been solid and I don't think I've been overfeeding. I think the water is OK because the plants seem great until I have to start supplementing my soil with the Bio-Bizz products. Perhaps 3ml per L of Grow/Bloom each is too much of the Bio-Bizz? If I flush it seems like I'll just be running right back into the same problem.

Salts in the soil build up and will lock nutes out. The flush with filtered water or something like Clearex, will help remove the salt build up. Then water with a 5-5-5 and you will give anything flushed a way back and the plant should be able to take it in. I like D said keep temps up and watch it when adding any "N" when flowering.
I don't know anything about Bio-Bizz, for I am a TLO soil grower.
Hope this helps.

 

[Danny-boy777]

Flush quickly before the problem reaches everywhere,

Im no expert but yellow for me 90% of the time is nitrogen,which is easily locked out because of salt build up in the medium or PH or both hand in hand.

in these situations I flush with PH corrected water at least twice,I then feed the correct (specific for every plant) food and watch.

Regardless of the Nute problem this is almost a sure fire cure.

If the plant is experiencing this still then I would look into pest control both on the plant and In the media.

The larger fan leaves will definitely yellow and fall off during flowering,thats just the plant eating up the nitrogen that was stored there (for its natural flowering process).

I hope I was able to help.

 

[Big D]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=163841&postcount=7

 

[Danny-boy777]

Two Shae BIG,D ... I dont know how to spell it any other way.

My comment was based on experience.
I assume that the temp is optimal as it is an indoor grow.

 

[Big D]

oh that wasn't directed at you Danny-boy777 or to say that anyone was wrong....I just dug that up this morning just to show how I came to my conclusion. His temps do seem good though..... it could very well be lockout. It definitely wouldn't hurt him to flush.

 

[Danny-boy777]

I meant I dont know how to spell (two shae) ha ha,

Big,d,dank answer dude no worries its definatley an option.

on the topic though i have a friend who grew some pmxnl and it was due to the colder temps that it became purple and the bud knocked my socks off.

Reason I know this is because the pmxnls he had inside didn't change colour at all.

Peace and love

 

[billspreston]

Thanks so much for the responses.

I would say that it is too cold during lights out even though 68 isn't all that cold (it is strain dependent) but you want keep the drop only about 5 degrees between lights out and lights on. Try to keep the temps at 72 at night. See if that helps.

The yellow leaves around the bottom are just going to happen when flowering in a 2 gal pot. The roots just want more room.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong! Best wishes!

On average I would say my night time temps are 3-4 degrees cooler than day. My day time temps do fluctuate a bit between 80-72 degrees but I'm fairly certain my night time temps are not consistently 5+ degrees cooler. That said, my plants do resemble some of the photos you've linked to below so I'm going to keep a closer eye on this.

You also could be on to something with the container size as I changed to smaller Airpots last grow. I did this because the Airpots seemed to have a much larger capacity compared to a normal 2 gallon and I was under the impression the air pruning would produce a more efficient root mass in a smaller area. Perhaps I was mistaken. Sad thing is I have some larger 3.4 gallon Airpots sitting around I could have used. I wonder if anyone here grows to maturity in a 2 gallon Airpot and if they've had issues. I know there is an Airpot thread here somewhere I'll try and go ask those guys.

Salts in the soil build up and will lock nutes out. The flush with filtered water or something like Clearex, will help remove the salt build up. Then water with a 5-5-5 and you will give anything flushed a way back and the plant should be able to take it in. I like D said keep temps up and watch it when adding any "N" when flowering.
I don't know anything about Bio-Bizz, for I am a TLO soil grower.
Hope this helps.

That makes sense. I'm just a bit confused as to how I got the build up in the first place. I ph my water/nute mixture before every watering and it always registers between 6.4-6.6 after some tweaking with Ph Down solution. Could it have been too much nutes? Bad batch of nutes (Bio Grow did smell funky)? Water is too hard? Too little water?

If I've been doing something wrong I'd like to identify that problem so I don't recreate the same situation after the flush. I'm really starting to think that funky smelling Bio-Bizz Bio Grow may have been off and caused this. I've ordered a new bottle that I'll be using after I flush so I guess I'll find out.

Flush quickly before the problem reaches everywhere,

Im no expert but yellow for me 90% of the time is nitrogen,which is easily locked out because of salt build up in the medium or PH or both hand in hand.

in these situations I flush with PH corrected water at least twice,I then feed the correct (specific for every plant) food and watch.

Regardless of the Nute problem this is almost a sure fire cure.

If the plant is experiencing this still then I would look into pest control both on the plant and In the media.

The larger fan leaves will definitely yellow and fall off during flowering,thats just the plant eating up the nitrogen that was stored there (for its natural flowering process).

I hope I was able to help.

That sounds reasonable. When you say you flush twice do you mean you flush and let dry completely and then flush again? I watered the plants yesterday before posting this thread with a light nute solution. Should I let them dry out fully a day or two or should I just go ahead and flush tonight? Any opinions as to how I may have got this build-up given my current regimen?

Lastly, do you guys recommend I acquire some of that Clearex stuff to help ensure a good flush of my soil? Any down sides to using it? I think I've seen it at my local store.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[420GreenMan]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=163841&postcount=7

Very nice link full of great info Big D, Thanks. Been growing for 30 years this year and I never stop learning something new.

 

[Danny-boy777]

Yes, Get the Clearex,if there is something I wish I had its clearex, I use H2o2 its ok for flushing,

Salt buildup is caused by evaporation, Think it through, If you were to mix a saline solution of SALT and WATER,tied a piece of string to a pencil and dropped the string into the solution and left it under your window,once all the liquid has been evaporated there will be a huge solid salt crystal stuck on the string,
The same applies,Its not some thing we can prevent (as far as I know) but it is something we can rectify.

Flush twice , Flush(PH 6.0) and let it drain the first time you flush test the PH of the run off,It will give you a better Idea as to which way the PH has gone not a good one but and Idea(which is better than nothing).

Once drained flush again, I do this to make sure all the crap is out.let that drain through as well as possible.

Feed,wait and smile. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

 

[billspreston]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that, you did an excellent job. Makes sense

I've got a small army of 5 gallon buckets evaporating chlorine from my tap water in preparation for this evening's flush. Needing to prepare all that water (36 gallons) kind of sucks, will mixing in the Clearex allow me to use less in the future? Perhaps I should find a larger water container lol.

Also you say I feed right after I flush? No drying in between? If so, doesn't that water just go straight through the already saturated soil?

Thanks a lot guys. I'm definitely starting to feel confident in solving this problem!

 

[420GreenMan]

I would wait a few days after the flush then feed. JMO.

 

[Danny-boy777]

The reason I add the nute straight after it has "drained" is because I have never had any issues,

Maybe I would of had less if I left it,Im always open to learn.

 

[billspreston]

Got all the plants flushed. The runoff pH was slightly high on some of the plants, I would say around 6.7-6.8. Not sure if that was causing any issues or how it got up above 6.5, but I've brought everything down to 6.5. There did also seem to be a fair amount of buildup (color) in the runoff as it took quite awhile to run clear. After a few hours the girls seem to have perked up a good amount so I'm very happy about that. The leaves seem less "dull" and they are reaching upwards nicely. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on them to see if the yellowing continues but the canopy seems happy so far.

So with the help of you wonderful people it seems I have corrected my lockout issues for now. I'll be switching my nutrients to Botanicare for my post-flush feeding to see if the bottle of suspect Bio-Bizz was the culprit. If the lockout reappears with different nutes I'm thinking I may take a look at using an alternative water source. Not sure what else would be causing lockout issues at this point? Temps have been very stable so I feel comfortable that is not the issue. I'm not seeing any thrips these days either although I don't think that was ever a big concern. Hopefully everything is clear sailing from here on out. Sorry for the crappy photos, just wanted to document the progress.

 

[Danny-boy777]

They will be dank.

Nice one dude..... its Saturday and im high as shit, Some indoor Sativa grow. Absolutley paranoid in the best way possible.

I hope they make you feel something just as good.

Namaste!!!!!

 

[billspreston]

Thanks Danny. Nice to see you're enjoying the fruits of your labor! I've never had any Mandala strains so I'm eager to see how mine turn out. Just want to make sure I do my part in keeping them healthy and I finally feel like I'm back on the right track