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Who knows the Original Characteristics of the oldskool NL#5 (´89/´90)?
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- nl#5 northern lights #5
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
Even though this is a bit old now and the OP hasn't been back in quite a while, in case there's any lurkers or future readers who want a definitive answer to this question, I'll go ahead an answer it.
I've been developing NL from the original 10 Sensi NL seeds I obtained from Gypsy Nirvana in 2000. This is the only varietal of cannabis I've grown since then. Previous to that, I developed Type I/Sativa - Type II/Indica hybrid plants, that were developed by the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church from the 70's.
I have developed cannabis for over 50 years now and reverse engineered Northern Lights back to its three original components:
In addition, I have also extensively researched NL on the Internet since that time and I'm fully aware of all the stories, myths and fabrications regarding how it was developed. Other than perhaps Haze, there is no other varietal of cannabis where there have been more outright bullshit stories posted on various cannabis fora, that have absolutely no basis in fact.
I prefer to take the word of the guys who actually did the _work_ to develop NL, specifically NL Seattle Greg and Nevil Schoenmaker, rather than a bunch of Internet Experts/Keyboard Warriors who want to impress everyone with their "insider" knowledge but don't understand nor have they actually _developed_ NL.
So visit this link to see what the people who actually did the _work_ to create NL wrote about it:
The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It
I have previously posted this on another forum and have been reluctant to post it here on ICM, because I feel very passionate about this subject and have a tendency to over-react when anyone attempts to "educate" me on the history of Northern Lights. The post eventually led to me getting kicked...
www.icmag.com
Pretty confusing and conflicting, isn't it?
You know why? Because old peoples' memory fades/changes when they get old and aren't as "photographic" as they tend to think. So from the previous link, here's what I believe:
1) NL Seattle Gregg created and developed Northern Lights because he needed it for PTSD
2) Nevil worked with all the numbers of NL, standardized and homogenized the varieties, recognized the ones that would be most successful commercially. Got busted and sold all his interest in cannabis seeds to Ben Dronkers who created Sensi.
3) Someone at Sensi decided NL1 should be marketed as NL but more insightful and creative individuals worked #2 and #5, homogenized and standardized it and through the cumulative effort of _all_ these individuals, created a fucking masterpiece of cannabis.
Now to answer your question, I don't think there is _anyone_ who has the original, _numbered_ versions of NL, _especially_ #5. Here is a cut 'n paste from a now deleted thread on Mr. Nice:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 3, 2011
#10
I had a back crossed line of NL5, 8 back crosses. After I got out of jail they were gone. I don't know what happened to them. Marcel probably sold Rimmeo some of them. It was the closest to NL5 in seed form. It's another of my projects that I never got to finish. It stil irks me.
N.
rimmeo
Jan 3, 2011
#13
nevil said:
i had a back crossed line of nl5, 8 back crosses. After i got out of jail they were gone. I don't know what happened to them. Marcel probably sold rimmeo some of them. It was the closest to nl5 in seed form. It's another of my projects that i never got to finish. It stil irks me.
N.
thank you nev for verifiying that for me yes marcel sold them to me there were the best i wish i still had som e i loved the strain and comend the work you put into it
rimmeo
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That is the only reference to NL#5 _seed_ that I've been able to locate that was actually _written_ by Nevil. Since Nevil was busted in 1990, even _he_ wasn't able to source #5 from seed. So if anyone wants to believe they have seeds that are _really_ #5, they are only deluding themselves. And I'm not even going to get into NL Seattle Greg and Todd McCormick's mysterious "freezer finds" of specific NL numbers that the asshat is now pimping as being the "original". For Boomers, By Boomers, To Make Money... no need to say more.
Since I'm so passionate about NL, where would someone like me obtain NL seeds?
After working NL for so long, these are the only options I'd consider:
1) The only true, _genetic_ version of NL is Sensi's version, and that's a fucking fact.
2) Mike from PeakBC Seeds has worked NL longer than I have and by reputation, is an excellent cannabis developer, so that is my second choice for obtaining NL seeds. Those BC boys back in the 90's could _work_ a varietal and make it better.
3) I would give Shantibaba of Mr. Nice seeds Ortega a strong consideration as well.
All the rest of the seed hawkers pimping NL? I wouldn't trust the provenance of _any_ of them.
Here's one variation I developed from those original 10 seeds:
I took this staminate plant
Paired it with this pistillate
And created this
Get Sensi's version of NL and you can do this as well but you have to _work_ at it. If Northern Lights has a _number_ attached to it, _run_ don't walk away from the pollen chucker/seed slinger.
Personally, I"m still waiting for Northern Lights 3.141593. It was sourced by an American Native, from an ancient Indian burial ground casket (or was it a freezer?), that contained seeds from the very _first_ cannabis plant God created, who gave the seeds to NL Seattle Greg, who mixed 'em with Thai pollen from Herbie, then Nevil took those embryos and incubated them in an agar solution, cloned them, and sold them to Arjan, who is now marketing them for $1000 USD per seed.
I hear it smells just like apple pie... can't get more American than that!
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Love it when Raco chimes in 
NL5 x NL2 was offered in 1989
Nevil offered #1 and #2 as pure lines.
#5 was only available as the Mother parent in hybrids through Nevil.
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
Very rarely do I say this but... I couldn't have said this better myself.
From a now deleted June 13th 2010 post from the Admin on the Sensi forum (bold and italics by me, for those who are reading challenged):
"Many present-day seed sellers do nothing more than rebrand existing strains and invent/retcon a back-story for them and this is one of the things that has led to the current unfortunate situation that JessE embodies - the never ending debate over the name game and near-obsession with knowing the 'real story'.
Enormous amounts of energy (and invective) are devoted to establishing yet another One True History of strains from from fundamentally contradictory (or just plain incorrect) sources. In places it becomes very much like other fandoms, with the alpha-geeks fighting over a Truth that will never be definitively established (and, essentially, doesn't matter at all). I spent many years trying to work out a definitive history of the European breeding programs and even with access to primary sources and a good idea of the overall shape and direction of things, there are certain details that are never going to be firmly established.
And, in the end, it really doesn't matter. If the seeds do what they say on the packet - germinate, grow and flower as they're meant to - that's really enough. A decent grower can get an excellent idea of a plant's qualities by growing it!
Knowing a hybrid's lineage is interesting, but gives little or no idea of how the strain or individuals within it will perform as parents, whether in the f2 generation or in a new hybrid. The only way to know for sure is to make the cross and observe/compare the results."
As I said, couldn't have said it better myself.
From a now deleted June 13th 2010 post from the Admin on the Sensi forum (bold and italics by me, for those who are reading challenged):
"Many present-day seed sellers do nothing more than rebrand existing strains and invent/retcon a back-story for them and this is one of the things that has led to the current unfortunate situation that JessE embodies - the never ending debate over the name game and near-obsession with knowing the 'real story'.
Enormous amounts of energy (and invective) are devoted to establishing yet another One True History of strains from from fundamentally contradictory (or just plain incorrect) sources. In places it becomes very much like other fandoms, with the alpha-geeks fighting over a Truth that will never be definitively established (and, essentially, doesn't matter at all). I spent many years trying to work out a definitive history of the European breeding programs and even with access to primary sources and a good idea of the overall shape and direction of things, there are certain details that are never going to be firmly established.
And, in the end, it really doesn't matter. If the seeds do what they say on the packet - germinate, grow and flower as they're meant to - that's really enough. A decent grower can get an excellent idea of a plant's qualities by growing it!
Knowing a hybrid's lineage is interesting, but gives little or no idea of how the strain or individuals within it will perform as parents, whether in the f2 generation or in a new hybrid. The only way to know for sure is to make the cross and observe/compare the results."
As I said, couldn't have said it better myself.
This was Marc Emery's listing from BCSC in 1999:
Is there a description of the Federation Cotton Candy?
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farmerfischer
Active member
Here's something interesting I found in one of Shantibaba's Websites
funkyhorse
Well-known member
I hope you guys can help
I am not interested in the people nor in any ego related thing. I am only interested about the weed
Let the dead rest in peace, for me this is about the plant not about the people.
I have the same question as the opening post and one year and a half later I can have some idea about who against who, why and for how much
The basic question remains unanswered
Pictures of NL5 have been posted. It seems to be a triangle shape bud.
There are no pictures of NL5 x Hz in the thread
Somebody grew the Sensi NL5 x Hz original release? Can comment what kind of plants were found?
I am growing some F3 from a pack of 91¨ made by TSCo and growing it outdoors you can see qualities that cannot be seen indoors
Particularly with hazes, haze phenos and sativa genetics the differences between the indoors and outdoors grow is simply amazing, 2 different worlds.
I have 2 main phenos of these F3s. Triangle shape bud which I suspect is the NL5 pheno and a foxtail pheno which is the haze pheno and very hard to see indoors.
Outdoors is ready in 60 days since shown first pistil from seed
It is the fastest sativa I have grown so far and from the indoor run I got 2 hour uplifting effect
The plant smells sativa, floral and spices for a lack of better descriptions. I find very hard to find common parameters in the canna world. From what I read it seems NL5 is low odor, not your typical loud indica smell like Deep Chunk
This plant trims like a sativa. NL5 trims like an indica or sativa?
This is one of the triangle phenos
I hope somebody can help and explain the effects and features of NL5 and hopefully the same for the NL5 x Hz original release from the end of 80s and leave all egos and all dead people in peace.
Sometimes you have to wonder: Is this about smoking plants and getting high from them or this is about smoking a part of your own ego and getting very high out of it?
Have a nice week everyone
I am not interested in the people nor in any ego related thing. I am only interested about the weed
Let the dead rest in peace, for me this is about the plant not about the people.
I have the same question as the opening post and one year and a half later I can have some idea about who against who, why and for how much
The basic question remains unanswered
Pictures of NL5 have been posted. It seems to be a triangle shape bud.
There are no pictures of NL5 x Hz in the thread
Somebody grew the Sensi NL5 x Hz original release? Can comment what kind of plants were found?
I am growing some F3 from a pack of 91¨ made by TSCo and growing it outdoors you can see qualities that cannot be seen indoors
Particularly with hazes, haze phenos and sativa genetics the differences between the indoors and outdoors grow is simply amazing, 2 different worlds.
I have 2 main phenos of these F3s. Triangle shape bud which I suspect is the NL5 pheno and a foxtail pheno which is the haze pheno and very hard to see indoors.
Outdoors is ready in 60 days since shown first pistil from seed
It is the fastest sativa I have grown so far and from the indoor run I got 2 hour uplifting effect
The plant smells sativa, floral and spices for a lack of better descriptions. I find very hard to find common parameters in the canna world. From what I read it seems NL5 is low odor, not your typical loud indica smell like Deep Chunk
This plant trims like a sativa. NL5 trims like an indica or sativa?
This is one of the triangle phenos
I hope somebody can help and explain the effects and features of NL5 and hopefully the same for the NL5 x Hz original release from the end of 80s and leave all egos and all dead people in peace.
Sometimes you have to wonder: Is this about smoking plants and getting high from them or this is about smoking a part of your own ego and getting very high out of it?
Have a nice week everyone
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
Are you talking about somebody's release of a so-called NL #5 or Nevil cross of Hz and NL? I'm not sure what your question is, the OP was asking about old skool #5, which _doesn't_ exist. Even Nevil couldn't get it back in the day.
You can't talk about NL/Haze combination without talking about a dead guy, sorry. Nevil was the first one to come up the idea, and more importantly the first one to actually _do_ it.
"Sometimes you have to wonder: Is this about smoking plants and getting high from them or this is about smoking a part of your own ego and getting very high out of it?"
While some of us ask, " Is this all about using old, dead guys hard _work_ just to pimp a non-existent plant number, just to sell shit and make money?
To fully understand why NL like numbers are bullshit, see here:
That thread contains this direct quote from Nevil:
Northern Lights 2x5 was the best that I could do staying within the line (pure NL).
So there's your answer, from the guy who _worked_ Northern Lights more than anyone else, other than NL Seattle Greg.
You can't talk about NL/Haze combination without talking about a dead guy, sorry. Nevil was the first one to come up the idea, and more importantly the first one to actually _do_ it.
"Sometimes you have to wonder: Is this about smoking plants and getting high from them or this is about smoking a part of your own ego and getting very high out of it?"
While some of us ask, " Is this all about using old, dead guys hard _work_ just to pimp a non-existent plant number, just to sell shit and make money?
To fully understand why NL like numbers are bullshit, see here:
The Real History Of Northern Lights, Written By The Guys Who Did It
I have previously posted this on another forum and have been reluctant to post it here on ICM, because I feel very passionate about this subject and have a tendency to over-react when anyone attempts to "educate" me on the history of Northern Lights. The post eventually led to me getting kicked...
www.icmag.com
That thread contains this direct quote from Nevil:
Northern Lights 2x5 was the best that I could do staying within the line (pure NL).
So there's your answer, from the guy who _worked_ Northern Lights more than anyone else, other than NL Seattle Greg.
funkyhorse
Well-known member
Thank you for taking the time to answer
What I am growing is some F3 of a Sensi pack from 1991. What the seedbank is selling today is not the F3s so what I am growing is not available. If this would be commercially available I doubt I would be posting here
I dont care about the numbers
I am interested because I think this is really good for what it is
I would like to understand a little bit better.
I made a cross with this to a Chocolate Thai plant and half of the phenos are NL5 leaning. Diluted at 25% this thing comes up in progeny at high rate
So if somebody grew the real F1 release of NL5 x Hz I would like to know how it was
Same for the original NL5 clone used in the making of these hybrids
Man, this is a plant giving a decent high with a short flowering time. It is a slow grower, haze is not a slow grower so I guess it is a NL5 trait
Whatever fact and clarifications about the weed said by the dead breeder is welcome
The thing is what I am growing was not made by him
It was made by Sensi seeds if I understand correctly from what I read when he was in jail
So whatever they were doing at Sensi at that time they had no clue what they were doing
The guy whoever he was who made the F2s of what I am growing had very clear what he was doing
The seedbank in Barcelona reproducing this indoors had no clue what they were doing, they cannot see indoors the haze phenos properly, indoors they look like NL5
This thing NL5 x Hz 91 from a pack of Sensi Seeds from that time having arrived to me at F3 and growing it in 2024 is a serendipity
What the seedbank which has their homepage down has for sale today is the F5 or the F4. The F4 I had from the bank is much lower quality than the F3 and from what I am seeing through the progeny the F4s I have are from the NL5 pheno
The only reason I have this strain here and growing it is pure luck, it is not the will of the seedbanks to give you their best and if it happens is because of ignorance.
For them 30 min high weed is quality
Could you explain the effects of original NL5 clone used in the making of the NL5 x Hz strain?
Do you think the people at Sensi Seeds knew what they were doing with the cuts when the breeder was in jail?
Was it a one on one pollination or was it a gangbang on the NL5 clone in the Sensi release? This is something that can be answered by someone who grew the original release pack from Sensi
I dont think the Sensi release of that time was the same as the original because of the single fact the breeder was not there
I would like to know description of both NL5 and the original release of NL5 x Hz from Sensi from somebody who grew it
I tried crossing pure indicas to sativas and it always came up indica. This NL5xHz is coming up sativa all of it
Are there more hybrids like this?
It is at least a month faster than THH, it is faster than Ohz x Skunk
There are no sativa hybrids in the market with sativa terpenes and decent sativa high this fast
What I am growing is some F3 of a Sensi pack from 1991. What the seedbank is selling today is not the F3s so what I am growing is not available. If this would be commercially available I doubt I would be posting here
I dont care about the numbers
I am interested because I think this is really good for what it is
I would like to understand a little bit better.
I made a cross with this to a Chocolate Thai plant and half of the phenos are NL5 leaning. Diluted at 25% this thing comes up in progeny at high rate
So if somebody grew the real F1 release of NL5 x Hz I would like to know how it was
Same for the original NL5 clone used in the making of these hybrids
Man, this is a plant giving a decent high with a short flowering time. It is a slow grower, haze is not a slow grower so I guess it is a NL5 trait
Whatever fact and clarifications about the weed said by the dead breeder is welcome
The thing is what I am growing was not made by him
It was made by Sensi seeds if I understand correctly from what I read when he was in jail
So whatever they were doing at Sensi at that time they had no clue what they were doing
The guy whoever he was who made the F2s of what I am growing had very clear what he was doing
The seedbank in Barcelona reproducing this indoors had no clue what they were doing, they cannot see indoors the haze phenos properly, indoors they look like NL5
This thing NL5 x Hz 91 from a pack of Sensi Seeds from that time having arrived to me at F3 and growing it in 2024 is a serendipity
What the seedbank which has their homepage down has for sale today is the F5 or the F4. The F4 I had from the bank is much lower quality than the F3 and from what I am seeing through the progeny the F4s I have are from the NL5 pheno
The only reason I have this strain here and growing it is pure luck, it is not the will of the seedbanks to give you their best and if it happens is because of ignorance.
For them 30 min high weed is quality
Could you explain the effects of original NL5 clone used in the making of the NL5 x Hz strain?
Do you think the people at Sensi Seeds knew what they were doing with the cuts when the breeder was in jail?
Was it a one on one pollination or was it a gangbang on the NL5 clone in the Sensi release? This is something that can be answered by someone who grew the original release pack from Sensi
I dont think the Sensi release of that time was the same as the original because of the single fact the breeder was not there
I would like to know description of both NL5 and the original release of NL5 x Hz from Sensi from somebody who grew it
I tried crossing pure indicas to sativas and it always came up indica. This NL5xHz is coming up sativa all of it
Are there more hybrids like this?
It is at least a month faster than THH, it is faster than Ohz x Skunk
There are no sativa hybrids in the market with sativa terpenes and decent sativa high this fast
CharlesU Farley
Well-known member
I'm jammed up doing cannabis work down the basement today, so short response, for me. It's quite coincidental the archives I've been diving into, that weren't specifically about Neville's work with NL but with haze _and_ Nl, I just read a night or two ago, because I'm getting ready to post it in another thread.
After I get through posting that, which will probably be in another day or two, I'll colate the specific parts where Nevil talks about Haze and NL. As I remember, and mine absolutely sucks these days, it was quite insightful.
Almost made me want to try a combo.
Looking for NL, and specifically specific numbers, from that time frame is going to be almost impossible. To verify the provenance, and whether it's actually real or not, is going to be exceedingly difficult. I'm not saying nobody has it, it's just really going to come down to whether you actually _trust_ the person who you're buying a seed from.
I'm a skeptical fuck, I wouldn't trust anybody except Sensi, Mr Nice, or Mike from PeakBC seeds for anything _genetically_ related to the real NL.
Everything else, including everything _I've_ done for the past 20+ years is all hearsay.
As Shantibaba always says, plant the seed. And then I would add, it will tell you what it is.
Good luck in your quest!
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BradChremistry
New member
NL5 was a mild single note sour profile. Not OG. I'd compare it to a more boring sour Slymer type flavor. Distinct but nothing special. Smoke was completely forgettable by then's standards. Never maintained its scent in the bag. Had to squeeze the bud in customers face.
"Juniper berry"? Didn't know they had a smell. All our crops were surrounded by Virginian juniper and we associated the emerging OG flavors (before the lemon slime/cleaner/fuel became the association) with dark purple juniper sawdust. My dad's old Homelite probably smells more like OG than anything on the market today.. My Stihl didn't leak quite enough fuel, and didn't vibrate nearly as much so it got less use. That powerful feeling matters. Keeps your legs intact. One thing I won't do after smoking. Learnt that from my shinless uncle who never learned his own lessons.
Maybe NL and OG are related and that wasn't NL5 we were getting. It did come from California, land of fakers.
"Juniper berry"? Didn't know they had a smell. All our crops were surrounded by Virginian juniper and we associated the emerging OG flavors (before the lemon slime/cleaner/fuel became the association) with dark purple juniper sawdust. My dad's old Homelite probably smells more like OG than anything on the market today.. My Stihl didn't leak quite enough fuel, and didn't vibrate nearly as much so it got less use. That powerful feeling matters. Keeps your legs intact. One thing I won't do after smoking. Learnt that from my shinless uncle who never learned his own lessons.
Maybe NL and OG are related and that wasn't NL5 we were getting. It did come from California, land of fakers.
Here you go @funkyhorse , this is the very first Catalog description and picture of the strain that continues to provoke controversy 35 years later. Starting arguments should have been a sidenote for the Original accompanying Warning.
I'll ask the same in this nl thread too..
Do you guys & @Thcvhunter know if some of the Afghanis going around Hawaii , that are in the genetics of NL5, had floral, earthy-mint-blueberry candy hashy smell, no pine or juniper at all? Darker green, short and bushy plant
I found only one of that type in mns ortega (nl5/nl1) out of about 75 plants
I also found a nice Swazi leaning one
btw, i didin't get a lot of pine/juniper smelling plants in mns ortega
Do you guys & @Thcvhunter know if some of the Afghanis going around Hawaii , that are in the genetics of NL5, had floral, earthy-mint-blueberry candy hashy smell, no pine or juniper at all? Darker green, short and bushy plant
I found only one of that type in mns ortega (nl5/nl1) out of about 75 plants
I also found a nice Swazi leaning one
btw, i didin't get a lot of pine/juniper smelling plants in mns ortega
