Whats up with my roots?

[inreplyavalon]

Yes i have been using bricked coco for a few years now and i also have root aphids. I am sure they did not come into my garden from the coco. In the summertime root aphids hang out all over my property. My kid leaves the front door open, i have the veg room door open to increase ventilation, so they can easily find their way in.

Anyone that has broken up a large brick of botanicare cocogro, knows that they are bug free. It just makes sense after you handle the inhospitable dry compressed coco. I have gotten fungus gnats and likely root aphids in b'cuzz loose coco when i was growing in a more protected indoor spot.

So 40, you are still dealing with them? Do you think you are still bringing them in, or did you not completely eradicate them as you previously believed?

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Not a chance I am bringing them in. I even moved locations. I have now read multiple threads of Foxfarm, roots organics, all cocos, etc having the same problem. Some bags of Foxfarm had them flying in it before it was ever even opened. It seems to be a massive problem not only with us, but large nurseries. I don't think switching mediums really matters anymore after reading reports of organics having equal troubles. In some of the 30+ page threads I am reading absolutely nothing worked for people. Not one pesticide even people using all the ones I have. Everyone says the same thing about Imid that it hurts the population numbers and is the most effective, but they are always there and the yield always takes a hit. Lots of good growers saying they have used every single chemical and wasted tons of money and the only thing that works is to completely trash everything in your grow room nuke it for multiple days and start completely over...I dunno I still think there must be something to get rid of these guys.

I have had 0 flying root aphids for 3 weeks + however, I am wondering if they adapt and stay larvae...I several plants progressively getting worse that look over watered when I am rarely watering, multiple nute deficiencies, and roots are turning or are completely brown. I wonder if the larvae are still living and just not turning into flyers.

I am currently reading about a product called met 52 which is a fungus you use as a pretreatment. Some have said it is the only thing that worked for them completely, but I just read a post that is very hard to find and only sold @$600 for some 50+ pounds of it. The math worked out to around a 1$ per plant for treatment.

I am going to research this shit all day so if I come up with anything worth trying I will report...so far it just seems nothing works and all mediums can already have infestations in them before you ever even use them.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

This is the most promising info yet. I followed this guy in another thread that span many months and many pages and he just posted this on Halloween:

I keep seeing people experiencing Root Aphid issues. There is a ton of confusion about combating this pest out there, and for good reason. They are hard to kill. I see recommendations that will NOT work all over the threads.

Neem oil, Azamax and Diatomaceous Earth are not going to help you.

The problem seems to be spreading. So I am going start a new thread for Metarhizium Anisopliae Strain F52. This fungus will eradicate Root Aphid attacks. I have not seen a root aphid in 9 months. I had them bad.

We have kicked this around in the Colorado forum for a while but I thought people should see this in the infirmary to make the information available to anyone browsing through problems. If you have tested Met 52 or used it on RA's with success, or without, please chime in. If you want to discuss this fungus or have any questions, this is the place. I want to see more people using this fungus so we can be sure the RA's are not mutating and building resistance to it. I am also interested to see the different variations in the species out there. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Anyone who needs Met 52 send me a PM and I will get you the info you need to have it sent your way.

I am going to try it...

My boy had RA's bad in his coco. He used the MET52 and those fuckers were gone in days.

These guys have tried everything we have and it all only partially worked...

 

[zor]

I have had 0 flying root aphids for 3 weeks + however, I am wondering if they adapt and stay larvae...I several plants progressively getting worse that look over watered when I am rarely watering, multiple nute deficiencies, and roots are turning or are completely brown. I wonder if the larvae are still living and just not turning into flyers.

40, been through the same mess with post treatment plants. My guess is its the toxins that the aphids shit out. it seems to linger even after treatment and on inspection of a couple of plants, it looked like the aphids tunneled there way into the main branch from the root system and it took literally months for me to save a mom. Even after the aphids were gone, the plant was severly stunted to the point where growing a clonable branch took weeks.

These things are pure evil.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I have to go offline for a bit but I will be back. I recommend everyone with this problem buy the met 52. I just talked to several different people with bigger grows than my little 4k watt who lost everything like I did and had no answers and swear by this stuff... I recommend everyone try it out because everything else will not work or if it does you have to treat so much the cost is too much. It is a granule I am going to try this out and will report how it goes, but from what I have read in seen in pictures I believe it might be our answer.

 

[louie]

I feel your guys' pain. I just figured out that I am battling Root Aphids too. It totally killed my yield from my last crop. I'm just about to take them down so I don't know the total damage yet. It is weird though how some of the strains and plants seemed to be unaffected. I was was running three different strains last round. I just applied Bayer Advanced Complete at 15 ml/gal to all my vegging girls and moms and within in two days a ton of new lush growth on all plants. It was pretty amazing, but I still have my fingers crossed. The plants in veg weren't in that bad of shape, but were on there way before the Bayer application. I too use brick coco, but think they must have come in from outside somehow. I just don't think that the action of compression and drying the coco brick would allow for the Aphids or eggs to survive.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

......

 

[Grendelkhan]

I have used coco for years now and I have to say that root nats seem to love coco. Plus as others have said often your getting them with the coco that your getting from the hydro shops. I have found that its impossible to get rid of them once you have them. The best thing to do is keep them under control. Bomb your rooms and add some SM-90 to your rez as the SM-90 in the rez water drowns that little lava that are in there. If your keeping them under control they aren't that bad of a problem. I have also found that a good compost tea seems to help with the control of them as well. On a side note I try to take only the best cuttings I can. If your going to be running 50 plants in 2 trays its best to have at least 100 cutting to select from. The reason for this is to have the best rooted cuttings you can get. You'll find that by selecting only the best cutting that you will have a more even, consistent canopy.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Here is a pdf to the met 52.

http://www.fargro.co.uk/animations/Met%2052%20Brochure.pdf

If you guys want a link to thread I have read with a big grow operation w/pictures using this stuff to kill aphids pm me...The op in the thread dwarfs mine and the guy swears by it.

 

[Guest 18340]

Been reading up on MET52 all day. Not having any luck finding a place that carries it though. Any links 40Amp's?

 

[Guest 88950]

i use bricked Sunleaves and im fighting them........not sure if i got them by holding a couple of girls during a friends move or just growing in the tropics but recently been fighting them.

i do prepetual so starting over makes me shiver to think of no meds, bho. 3 more in flower and going to treat my veg girls again.

i was gifted a chem cross and it took a beating so as my last attempt to save her i transplanted her into worm castings from a friends worm bin and she looks absolutly georgous.........i then transplanted the rest of my solo cups in wc / coco and ill see how they go.

EDIT: No Aphids on the chem cut........worm castings did the trick. the others in 60% coco 40% wc are recovering but not as fast as 100% wc. there was alot of bugs and worms and crawling stuff in the fresh worm castings so maybe one of the bugs is eating the root aphids.

theres something to the wc as stated above and aphids not liking them so i might transplant to 100% wc and cook organic soil again. slower growth but no aphids...........organic soil / wc FTW

 

[MacGyver420]

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[MacGyver420]

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[40AmpstoFreedom]

They look like tiny maggots before they turn into flyers. You might not see them though because they can be in the center of the root mass. Have you applied any pesticides? You can killem and whatever they leave behind seems to slowly kill your plant. Your roots definitely look like something is preventing them from colonizing. I can't say it is root aphids because your roots are still white, but I had the same root growth in some and eventually they turned brown and mushy. Even the well rooted ones did the same. The first picture looks like some browning is starting.

Questions:

1. Any pesticides
2. Did you transplant to that pot or start in it?
3. If you transplanted was the plant properly rooted upon transplant?
4. Any magnesium deficiency that won't go away?
5. Any brown rust spots randomly on leaves or any other random deficiencies?

 

[MacGyver420]

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[inreplyavalon]

I have never seen any pictures of root aphids, young or old, that look like maggots. Fungus gnat larvae look more like maggots to me. Young aphids have legs and then they grow wings.

Mac dont make the same mistake as me. Keep looking. I looked for twenty minutes and then decided it was not RA and then spent the next 5 months trying to diagnose some pathogen. A 30x scope works fine for the small juveniles.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

I have never seen any pictures of root aphids, young or old, that look like maggots. Fungus gnat larvae look more like maggots to me. Young aphids have legs and then they grow wings.

Mac dont make the same mistake as me. Keep looking. I looked for twenty minutes and then decided it was not RA and then spent the next 5 months trying to diagnose some pathogen. A 30x scope works fine for the small juveniles.

You are right I should not have said that they are little bugs with legs in all the pics I have seen too. I have yet to see premature ones in my garden I only have seen flyers.

 

[Ptone]

This is what you should see if you pull your plants up.
I just took this pic I'm Going to scour the internet for Met52
Any other suggestions?
Imid? What Else should i pickup? or is it to late for treatment?

2 Weeks 12/12

 

[inreplyavalon]

This is what you should see if you pull your plants up.
I just took this pic I'm Going to scour the internet for Met52
Any other suggestions?
Imid? What Else should i pickup? or is it to late for treatment?

2 Weeks 12/12

Shit man that does not look good. I have had some tough times with my ladies and have never seen that many in a pot. Hopefully they are localized and maybe it makes sense to get that one out of there and treat some less affected ones? That said i am about two weeks from harvest and think i will be around 60% yield from what it should have been. In my case it made sense to fight them and finish my round. I found them around week 3.
Unless its a freakishly early finishing strain, I would hit them hard with imid and then immediately start with some enzyme, insecticidal soap drenches, and maybe a botanigard/met 52 if it makes financial sense. If your plants were not vegged for long, and you dont have many, i would start fresh and treat with above.

 

[3dDream]

Can't you just put a little spinosad in your water? That should kill them and since it is systemic it should protect the leaves too. It is also organic. I use about 5-10 ml per gallon a few feedings and that seems to hold the bugs back, but there is no recommended dosage. I got the idea of feeding it because of a study with rockwool, tomatoes, and spidermites. There are also plenty of people that use it as a drench. You could also use mosquito dunks, but the spinosad will kill 'em all.