What do you consider an "early male"?

[BAKED_BEANZ]

i agree with you Baked, all old folklore and mysticism.
Lab tests take the guess work and should be utilized by anyone serious about breeding, even if only for yourself. Some of these old rules of thumb really need to be debunked. Potency and trichomes color for example. Complete bs.
I also agree with Frank that you don't necessarily want to keep a male around that pre flowers in veg setting. For long term projects they should be discarded so you don't carry pollen with you in and out of the veg room. As well as discontinuing the trait in future progeny. Has nothing to do with potency though.

totally agree , anything flowering under veg , should be given the boot .

testing is the foreseeable future in male selections , unfortunately only to the lucky legal sector .

 

[leet]

Also some people claim that early flowering males are tied to hermaphroditism...

 

[Fuel]

Let me do a synthesis of this thread :

- early maturing males are as bad as early maturing females
- earlier males = more viable seeds = hemp
- early male = less potency
- early male = indica
- flowers in vegetative stage = cull
- early males = hermaphrodism

I share absolutly nothing. I find it absolute and irrationnal, specially with the actual market wich tend to prove the reverse with decent ruderalis hybrids.

I don't like these hybrids and i tend to keep only long lasting strains/lines, but they are there. They do the job also, and the weed is pretty decent.

 

[MJPassion]

I had an experience with an early Killer Queen F7 male that actually auto flowered in my veg room under 24hrs of light. The boy was covered in frost so much that it looked like it had snowed on it.

Did I toss him?
Oh HELL NO!
He got used... I was growing some Diesel Ryders at the same time for smoke. They were about 3 weeks in so I left them together to do their thing.
I created my auto flower line.

I am firm in my opinion that early males can hold just as much value as later males. It just depends on what you are using them for.

 

[dank.frank]

DF,
I agree w everything you've posted here but now I have a question for you.
Considering that most cannabis breeding is taking place indoors, would you consider a male that flowers under 14-16 hours of light as an early male when he's posted up outdoors under the big HID in the sky?

I ask because I've noticed that nearly every variety I've grown over the last decade (outdoors about 38N) has triggered flowering around 14hrs day & 10hrs night.

I consider males that trigger to flower cycle at less than 10 hours of darkness as early. Only because this is a more natural light cycle.

Honestly, if flowers didn't trigger before 12/12 outdoors (sept 21) there would be a lot of unhappy growers about the planet. Of course, we're not talking about equatorial varieties here either.

Naturally, that would depend on where you live. So it is in some sense relative. We get about 3 months of straight true 12/12 outdoors where I live.

I think comparing outdoors to indoors is somewhat relative. Plants I've grown outdoors seem like they flower differently. It isn't "triggered" all at once like when we flip indoors. It is a slower, more gradual process and they sort of ease into flowering. Probably starting with about 14 hours of daylight like you say, but don't really begin throwing heavy pistils and true flower formation until about 12 hours of daylight.

I've also found it much harder to revert a plant to veg that has begun flowering outdoors.

I really find outdoor growing to be a completely different challenge compare to indoor. You'd think the skill set of growing would easily translate from one to the other, but it's like a whole different skill set is required. A whole different plane of knowledge.

Not much of an answer - I know. Just some reflective thoughts based on your post.



dank.Frank

 

[MJPassion]

Appreciated, none the less.
Thanks DF.

 

[BAKED_BEANZ]

I really find outdoor growing to be a completely different challenge compare to indoor. You'd think the skill set of growing would easily translate from one to the other, but it's like a whole different skill set is required. A whole different plane of knowledge.

definitely need to keep this in mind when i,m posting , as i,m strictly outdoors 100%.

 

[kasvi]

I had three males, three different cultivars, and the one I tossed
flowered in veg, 18/6.

Messed up my females timing with taking cuttings and was culled.

The remaining two have no hint of expression in veg and cuttings
in flower show sex around week two.

i also cull females that pre flower heavy in veg too.

I try to read the papers on the subject to guide my process,
and mostly suggest selection away from plants that get all
sexy in veg.

Can you link what papers you are talking about? I am interested in reading them.

 

[MJPassion]

Can you link what papers you are talking about? I am interested in reading them.

May be referring to the "DJ SHORT Articles"

 

[Dropped Cat]

Can you link what papers you are talking about? I am interested in reading them.

Some threads here on icmag:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55929
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136452
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257837
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94241
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231950
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=106115
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=261616

I have gone thru hundreds of posts and external links,
but alas, there is no easy synthesis of the data I have collected.

But I have some insight to getting there.

I am currently working some crosses on a limited scale
and dream of a "one best way" approach to selection
and true breeding process that any grower could use.

A cookie cutter approach that would allow anyone to cross
successfully to a chosen goal, flavor/terpene/THC balance.

Its what gets me out of bed everyday.