what can i get with 2.5k perpetual grow

[Cannarado]

Lol. Yea, each has their ups and downs. I LOVE my lumateks! I've had a standard 400 and a dimmable 400.

Lumatek will say "The only bulbs that will not work are ceramic metal halide bulbs and bulbs designed for theatrical lighting. These are called HMI bulbs. We also do not recommend using the cheap Chinese bulbs." And they recommend Ushio and Phillips.

I've talked to lumatek, and hortilux and im going to be talking to Digilux as thats my next bulb.

If its not to late - i'd ask if you can swap out bulbs. MOST garden centers are WELL unaware of such issues. Hortilux's only problem is the ignition frequency. They've lowered it from ANSI and E-ballast are a tid bit higher then ANSI (They arent made in america, so they dont exactly have to follow our rules) so they often conflict. You CAN run it (search google you'll find tons of people claiming issue free) but it can easily lead to issues and it's something personally i'd rather avoid.

 

[gus738]

thanks

thanks

hey guys thanks um the ac units i will try to get those in credit so im not concern about ac eventually i'll touch the subject.

well i already built the rooms and tried to kept them sealed as best i could. so i dont know if i should exhaust or recirculate fan with ac.

also for ph , tds/ppm i want acurate reliable easy to work with meters . so what contenders? and is it better to have individual ph/ppm ec meters?

what brand of carbon filters are great? quietness * no sacrifice on performance.

what inline fans vortex? any better?

as for the subject on the ballast and horti bulb. horti are the bomb they are japan and they rated for s47 why should i considerd the bulb and not the ballast if lumatek claims they rated for s47 and bulb is s47 its lumatek isssue.

i want my mh for veg and my hps bulbs for flower. might add the mh to the flower room at 1 point. how are the ushio bulbs?

 

[Cannarado]

hey guys thanks um the ac units i will try to get those in credit so im not concern about ac eventually i'll touch the subject.

well i already built the rooms and tried to kept them sealed as best i could. so i dont know if i should exhaust or recirculate fan with ac.

also for ph , tds/ppm i want acurate reliable easy to work with meters . so what contenders? and is it better to have individual ph/ppm ec meters?

what brand of carbon filters are great? quietness * no sacrifice on performance.

what inline fans vortex? any better?

I would suggest on sealing it all up, minus your intake hole. If you run "Sealed room" (No active air system, the air stays in the room, never leaves) then you need Co2 or the plants will die because they arent getting air.

So just stick with active air, intake and exhaust hole and try and keep the cool tube exhaust seperate aswell.

As for carbon filters, i got a Phresh off ebay thats great. Never heard of a loud scrubber... Always match the fan to the scrubber tho! Paid $90 shipped for a 440CFM. It says "possible 2 years of use", it has a refill hole, came with mounting scrap and prefilter and they use RC-60 instead of 48 carbon (Smaller bits, and still machine packed).

Fans, i recommend looking into Tjernlund. $80 shipped for 530CFM of pure power. Its all metal, and freaking ripped the walls off my last grow litterally. It was a 3x4x5 and i had a bit much neg pressure and it just ripped my walls off... So i snagged their speed controller as well for $20 (Dial - A - Temp... DO NOT USE A REHOSTAT) and im good to go!

Meters and testers... I recommend a PH and a EC/TDS. I have yet to purchase a meter tho because i cant decide whats truely worth it. In my research i've learned TDS/EC/PPM is all quite linked to eachother. I cant remember what was the best to test with however... someone else may chime in on that.

As for PH, i like drops! Its cheap, and cant fail. My friends all worry about if the batteries are good enough, is it calibrated, it cost them upwards of $80... mine costs $8 for like 4000 tests. I even ended up getting TDS drops too... but deff not efficent enough to suggest those. But a dripper PH tester works for me... if you get horticulture ones (mines for fish tanks) then it'll be easier and better, but with mine im probably only about .4 off at most. That may seem like a lot to some, but if this is you're first go at it... it'll get cha a harvest.

 

[gus738]

hey thanks for the feedback unfortunately the way i see your approach is different then mine, yes im working closely with money but im not going to feel comfortable relying on sub $10 ph tester. i rather spend a good 200 plus for ec or ph tds etc ... these are important things for me.

that fan sounds great for other situations but i want quietness as well the filter phresh? so in the store for the 440ish cfm should i expect 100-150?

my ideal is to go hydro today get (3) hps bulbs (horti super hps or what better bulb?) (2) or (3) reflectors mag xxxl 6 .... vortex fans? (or what kind is better) what kind of ballast? digital? best i can get for my situation using horti hps / blue mh. n hydro clay pebbles for ebb n gro buckets each are 2 gal x 12

 

[dtfsux]

Gus I am having a hard time understanding you about the AC? do you have an AC or do you plan on buying one now or later?

The room is going to get hot and that needs to be dealt with. So you will need an AC or you need to put an intake and exhaust.

If you have an AC, you will need to bring in fresh air every couple hours or so. This would be tricky with one filter. You could recirculate the room, then exhaust. This would require some type of automated damper or something.

If no AC, it is easy, just exhaust the room through a filter 24/7 and have a passive intake

PPM meters are pretty reliable. I have used a couple Hannah cheapo meters that worked great.

PH meters seem to be touchy and it seems like alot of people have different results. I have used Hannah cheapo yellow PH meters but they did not seem to last more than 4-6 months. But on my scale I was cool with that. I have also used a Hannah combo PH/PPM meter that was a couple hundred bucks that worked well. I also have a Milwaukee SM102 PH meter that works great

 

[gus738]

i dont have a ac unit but i can get it in credit card. i got my eye on a sharp unit 10btu portable in costco maybe need more then 1.

beside wasting electricity i think ac is better ? thinking of getting a ez cloner so that i just get cuts put on ez then put on ebb and once they are 1ft put on ebb n gro.

also if my goal is to harvest and dried around mid nov what would the minimal weight that i can expect since on 12 site 2 gal
with 2k in flower and when in veg 1k. bulbs will be horti blue daylight mh for veg and 2 super hps for flower.

now what with 3 bulbs on flower how much more improvement would i get? *of course temp being at bay

 

[OrganicOzarks]

i dont know anyone that gets quality product with sufficient light (600 watts or more) without using an A/C especially during the summer months. not many strains do well in the low 80F's without Co2. so with the lights fans and plants all radiating heat unless you can keep the ambient temp of the grow room about 65f or below its likely to get above 79f with everything on


peace

During the summer both of my flower rooms get between 82 to 86. I do not run co2. You can check the flavors that i am growing in my sig. They all do just fine. All I ever here on here is how the temps will fuck everything up. It is simply not true. Photosynthesis "may" begin to slow at 85 degrees without co2. It will slow down dramatically when you reach 95 degrees without c02. I have seen no difference in my winter crops vs. my summer crops. I pull the same amount, and the quality has actually been getting better do to me dialing things in more. I just get tired of people talking about the temps when I see the proof everyday. This morning one of my rooms was 87, and everyone is doing just peachy. Now I will agree that from what i have read that your plants will grow quicker, and "could" yield more if you have the temps down. However all I can do is compare my actual grow, and I have not ever seen a difference. I would agree that he does not need to be worring about co2 at this point. He really should have bought a 600w set up with scrubber and some soil and got his dick wet first. Thats my dime - 8 pennies.

 

[gus738]

Well im going to make it possible to stick to under 80f unless i feed co2. and my lumatek ballast does 600w 750w and 1k soil takes forever but i wont disregard it as a side thing beside hydro. i want do aero on 2nd run or 3rd for sure

 

[Sandnut]

what differs a normal grow from perpetual? x)

 

[JacuzziSplot]

As far as your electric goes. You have 50 amps capacity, thats it. Doesnt matter if you have one breaker that is 20 amps or 100 breakers that are 20 amps each. The reason you have 6 circuits that are 20 amps each is its probably wired with #12 and it can handle 20 amps. you have several circuits that in theory can handle 20 amps each. But in reality, it is not common for each circuit to be maxed out all at once

a 50 amp main is 50 amps at 240v so thats really 100 amps at 120v anything less than that and your not even up to code. But you never want to run more than 80% of the breaker rating so that means 80 amps available.

the 12 gage wire is the real limiting factor because you cant change out any of those 20 amp breakers with anything bigger without pulling new wires through the walls.

 

[gus738]

this is new so your saying that from the main's 50 dp is really 100 amps if wired at 120? the main is going feeded via 8 to sub panel with (6) 20 amp single pole. then from the sub 6x 20 a 12 /2 wire to 20 amp outlet.
so main issue is that 12/2 wire to outlet that i will plug stuff in?

* so i have enough amps? at current setup?

a 50 amp main is 50 amps at 240v so thats really 100 amps at 120v anything less than that and your not even up to code. But you never want to run more than 80% of the breaker rating so that means 80 amps available.

the 12 gage wire is the real limiting factor because you cant change out any of those 20 amp breakers with anything bigger without pulling new wires through the walls.

 

[Cannarado]

@ Gus - Call an electrician. Period. You do not need to be messing with your breaker with you not knowing enough. You're REALLY asking to for trouble doing that.

I dont understand how power can come in at 240V and "split" to 120v. I've had these discussions many times at work (with eletricians) and it doesnt work that way. I COULD BE WRONG - but this all came about from a fool telling a lady she could take her dryer 240v and split it into two 120v's - And that doesnt work that way. Breaker boxes may be different - however, CONTANT A PROFESSIONAL.

@ Ozark - I disagree. Its quite proven that higher temps will effect yield. Consistancy i think is key (You obv have great weed being grown in HOT area's like the middle east) along with a few other conditions. But a grow done in a cooler condition (say 78 vs 85) will yield more. You may not be able to notice because of all the other factors that can play into it tho. Its just like "imadoofas"'s "Debunking DWC myths" thread. While he's able to pull it off, with more optimal conditions, everything will increase. I feel that to gain in yield, you may loose potency. Seems stress and bad conditions will help with potency, and optimal growth conditions will help yeild.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Cannarado, I realized that my post might have been a bit bitchy. I did not mean for it to be at all. I agree that every book that i have read says that temps will change yield. however in my setup I have not noticed a difference. I have also wondered about your statement of more yield with less potency. Since a plant can max out in perfect conditions you are creating more vegetative tissue but not more frostyness. So in essence people who use co2 have less potent pot then those that don't. This is where reading is dangerous because pot grown in c02 can be potent, but is it less potent then the exact same setup without the co2? If you go by the books and science then it is less potent. However it is like the temps we are discussing. It's all relative right?

 

[Cannarado]

Cannarado, I realized that my post might have been a bit bitchy. I did not mean for it to be at all. I agree that every book that i have read says that temps will change yield. however in my setup I have not noticed a difference. I have also wondered about your statement of more yield with less potency. Since a plant can max out in perfect conditions you are creating more vegetative tissue but not more frostyness. So in essence people who use co2 have less potent pot then those that don't. This is where reading is dangerous because pot grown in c02 can be potent, but is it less potent then the exact same setup without the co2? If you go by the books and science then it is less potent. However it is like the temps we are discussing. It's all relative right?

I like you're thinking! In all honesty - I believe all conditions can be obtained in many different ways. But what do you want? Some people are out for strictly yeild. Some want flavor, some want potency. I want to dabble in all and learn how to pull the most for each and then apply the different things i've found to my garden and see what i like. Cause each strain will react different aswell... like you said - its relative.

 

[dtfsux]

this is new so your saying that from the main's 50 dp is really 100 amps if wired at 120? the main is going feeded via 8 to sub panel with (6) 20 amp single pole. then from the sub 6x 20 a 12 /2 wire to 20 amp outlet.
so main issue is that 12/2 wire to outlet that i will plug stuff in?

* so i have enough amps? at current setup?

Gus people are giving you bad advice, you dont have 100 amps at 120V.

You dont know much about electricity and trying to explain how amperage is carried across 120 and 240 would only confuse you


You have the ability to run 4000 watts in your current setup

@ Gus - Call an electrician. Period. You do not need to be messing with your breaker with you not knowing enough. You're REALLY asking to for trouble doing that.

I dont understand how power can come in at 240V and "split" to 120v. I've had these discussions many times at work (with eletricians) and it doesnt work that way. I COULD BE WRONG - but this all came about from a fool telling a lady she could take her dryer 240v and split it into two 120v's - And that doesnt work that way. Breaker boxes may be different - however, CONTANT A PROFESSIONAL.

yeah, you are wrong.

residential service comes in at 240 on two wires. Each wire is a leg and is 120.


And yes you can take a dryer plug and get two 120 circuits providing you have a neutral. You should also change the DP outlet to two SP breakers. The only issue would be the neutral being shared on both circuits

 

[JacuzziSplot]

I know you are trying to get the guy to be safe but bad info is bad info. unless we are talking about a shed or sub panel service panels are 100 Amps, 150 Amps, 200 Amps, 400 Amps. Its against the law to have less. You couldnt even sell a house with a 50 amp max legally. Coming off the transformer you have L1, N, L2. L1 to L2 is 240v, L1 to N is 120v, L2 to N is 120v. power in must always equal power out. If you have a 50 amp main breaker you have 50 amps from L1 to N and another 50amps from L2 to N. But you can only safely use 40 amps off of each leg. The guys needs an electrician to come in because all the wire in his walls are probably #12 and if your going to run more than 20 amps you need #6 wire for the hot leads and #8 neutral and ground. Like how an electric stove is wired. Most electric stoves are 40 amps alone.

 

[Cannarado]

Call an electrician. Seriously... Hit up a pot friendly hydro store or something and ask around for pot friendly electricians - unless you have nothing that could raise suspension (or you dont care). But get a professional that can actually see whats going on with your house wiring... then you just dont have to worry and try and sort out the madness.

 

[dtfsux]

I know you are trying to get the guy to be safe but bad info is bad info. unless we are talking about a shed or sub panel service panels are 100 Amps, 150 Amps, 200 Amps, 400 Amps. Its against the law to have less. You couldnt even sell a house with a 50 amp max legally. Coming off the transformer you have L1, N, L2. L1 to L2 is 240v, L1 to N is 120v, L2 to N is 120v. power in must always equal power out. If you have a 50 amp main breaker you have 50 amps from L1 to N and another 50amps from L2 to N. But you can only safely use 40 amps off of each leg. The guys needs an electrician to come in because all the wire in his walls are probably #12 and if your going to run more than 20 amps you need #6 wire for the hot leads and #8 neutral and ground. Like how an electric stove is wired. Most electric stoves are 40 amps alone.

you are right, bad info is bad info

This IS a sub panel, maybe you should read the thread. And it is fed with #8 wire. #8 maybe a bit small but some guidelines indicate it is the right size if its copper

The #12 runs from his sub panel to his circuits in the grow room.

He had an electrician that quit on him. This guy has been posting for months and I have been following it. You are only confusing him with what you are saying

 

[JacuzziSplot]

you are right, bad info is bad info

This IS a sub panel, maybe you should read the thread. And it is fed with #8 wire. #8 maybe a bit small but some guidelines indicate it is the right size if its copper

The #12 runs from his sub panel to his circuits in the grow room.

He had an electrician that quit on him. This guy has been posting for months and I have been following it. You are only confusing him with what you are saying

well I am totally sorry it never said in this thread it was a sub panel and he referred to it as a breaker box. I guess I should have asked more questions before I opened my big mouth. I didnt realize it was a custom job. It was just that I have run into alot of cases in RL where people with 50 amp service think they need to upgrade when they dont. #8 wire is up to spec it is just common practice to use the next size bigger from spec for safety.

 

[Cannarado]

He had an electrician that quit on him. This guy has been posting for months and I have been following it. You are only confusing him with what you are saying

What? So why would that matter? Get another - and this time do it right and get it by recomendation.

Its one thing to ask for a little clarification on something or to ask someone to once over you're work - but obv telling someone to start working on their breaker, sub panel, ect with them knowing (admitingly) very little about electrical work?! I've watched people set stuff up "knowing" what they were doing that was a fire hazard waiting to explode. Just because its wired right it can still not meet code. What if theres been a recent addition to his electrical code or something you guys are unaware of?

My advise is just to get a reputible company by recomendation and start over. If guy bailed on you last time - shouldnt have cost ya nothing so whats the worry? If he did some how scam you - go after them. thats crap.

If you want to save costs - Just take classes. Look for some good electrical classes at a near by college and just take those. Personally - with something like wiring a house, you'll get a different answer everytime. However, having a local company come do it assures you that its done to you're local code, and if anything is "different" then it should be, they'll know what to do and you wont be left hanging.

Teamwork first... then safety