What are the origins of Jamaican marijuana?

[Water-]

I agree, is your mind made up? You seem convinced there was pre 1492 Cannabis in the Americas.
I say there has never been any proof of Cannabis pre 1492 in the Americas, and this is correct as of today.
Cannabis is such a useful plant that it would of been used and shared and so spread amongst all pre 1492 peoples in the Americas and pollen, seed, and fiber remains would be as easy to find as it is in the rest of the old world where it was found everywhere people used it.

-SamS

no, my mind is open to whatever may be found.

Im convinced that it is possible and

there is no proof that cannabis did not in is some way come to the Americas before Colombus.

yes, pollen, seed and fiber would be easy to find if it was cultivated in large quantities..


But there is no way to prove that no one ever sailed up with a block of Hash or some seeds that were grown in a small area for a small amount of time and was then lost.


Im not saying it was a major cultural thing in the Americas, just that it is possible that it may have been there and has not been found yet.

There is a lot out there to be discovered about our past.
New discoveries are constantly revising what we thought was possible.

something as simple as an asian shipwreck with Hemp ropes that were then scavenged and used by people is enough to say that cannabis made it to the Americas before 1492.

 

[Water-]

If any body is interested in Native American Tobacco and the Pipe use, the book

"The Sacred Pipe: Black Elk’s Account of the Seven Rites of the Oglala Sioux"

is excellent

https://birchbarkbooks.com/all-online-titles/the-sacred-pipe

 

[Roms]

 

[Roms]

If anyone believes that Cannabis was in the Americas before Columbus where is an example of Cannabis seeds, pollen, or fibers that is pre 1492 that was found in the Americas?
I need scientific proof, not just faith it must of happened. (...) None were found in the Americas that were older then 1492, why is that?
-SamS

Maybe climatic upheaval or disasters have erased and buried things, anyway also less people on Earth and in America in this time.

A place to study in Ecuador with recent 6000 year old pottery discoveries with techniques from South Asia.

"The new materials will allow us to reconsider what we know so far and create a new pattern for the development of ancient cultures in the Pacific and Asia Pacific region of America"
https://www.dvfu.ru/en/news/en_scie..._coast_ancient_inhabitants/?sphrase_id=573627

This week I saw a new presentation by Dr John McPartland at the ICRS and he lists many samples found around the world that were even older then 1,000,000 years old.

-SamS

Older 1 000 000 years old wow fossil? From where i wonder?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

McKenna - Weird Salvia Trips and the Plant's Origins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nix3EjJSTeU

Terence McKenna:

15:43 Terence McKenna:

"This plant is known only from a very small area in Southern Mexico.

The people who used it are Mazatec Indians. They call it hojas de la pastora, the leaves of the sheperdess. This is first of all an odd name. Hojas de la pastora.

There are no sheperdesses in the Christian tradition. We have sheperds there at Christmas night, there are no sheperdesses. Why is it the leaves of the sheperdess?

More startling, these people are Mazatec Indians, they don's speak Spanish except as a remote second language of a conquering people. So when you say to them: what do you call it in Mazatec? They say: we have no name for this in Mazatec. Well that's a clue, any anthropologist any ethnographer will tell you, that means they cannot have had this plant for very long, and it cannot be very deeply grounded in their culture.​

So where did Salvia Divinorum come from?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

The mystery of the Piri Reis map.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/01/02/piri-reis-map-of-1513/

 

[ahortator]

McKenna - Weird Salvia Trips and the Plant's Origins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nix3EjJSTeU

Terence McKenna:

15:43 Terence McKenna:

"This plant is known only from a very small area in Southern Mexico.

The people who used it are Mazatec Indians. They call it hojas de la pastora, the leaves of the sheperdess. This is first of all an odd name. Hojas de la pastora.

There are no sheperdesses in the Christian tradition. We have sheperds there at Christmas night, there are no sheperdesses. Why is it the leaves of the sheperdess?

More startling, these people are Mazatec Indians, they don's speak Spanish except as a remote second language of a conquering people. So when you say to them: what do you call it in Mazatec? They say: we have no name for this in Mazatec. Well that's a clue, any anthropologist any ethnographer will tell you, that means they cannot have had this plant for very long, and it cannot be very deeply grounded in their culture.​

So where did Salvia Divinorum come from?

I have read the two plants, Salvia divinorum and Marijuana, called Pipiltzintzintli in Mexico.

Perhaps the use of the Salvia divinorum was more spreaded in Mexico in pre-Columbian times.

I have read even Cannabis could have been carried by the Clovis people when the crossed the bridge of dry land across Bering Strait about 12,000 years ago. I think it is very little likely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrés_de_Urdaneta#Exploration

Anyway there have been contacts between Polynesians and Americans before the arrival of the Europeans.

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/25/10335.full

 

[Gry]

Can recall reading that one way they look was to examine ancient pond sediment for pollen. It is there or it is not.

 

[The Joker1]

There is no proof that Mohammed Ali did not climb Mt. Everest. While there is no written evidence, no photos , no witness accounts , no historical proof, that doesn’t 100% prove that he did not climb Mt. Everest.

Before he was famous , he could have fallen in with a bunch of adventurers, trained , scaled Everest and snuck back and then kept it a secret. Just because there is no evidence of him ever going to Everest doesn’t mean it didn’t happen .

That’s a silly view point isn’t it? Just because your mind projects a thought , doesn’t mean it isn’t a transitory illusion.

 

[Water-]

all thought is transitiory illusion

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

If you get a chance to watch the Power Point slide presentation do it, I saw it at the ICRS in Leiden last week.

"The native range of Cannabis sativa and its center of origin in Asia, primarily based on fossil pollen data" by Dr John McPartland

 

[Illuminate]

I want to believe:

 

[djimb]

So regardless of whether some tiny population of Cannabis plants or some fragment of rope existed in some isolated corner of the Americas before Columbus arrived, the likelihood that any part of the lineage of Jamaican cannabis is constituted by the former is probably zero, and the latter is definitely zero.

Ultimately, as has been said, it's most likely descended from Indian and possibly African varieties.

 

[mexcurandero420]

I assume this is the paper about the pollen research.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00334-018-0678-7

 

[Water-]

Cannabis is indigenous to Europe and cultivation began during the Copper or Bronze age: a probabilistic synthesis of fossil pollen studies



.Conventional wisdom states Cannabis sativa originated in Asia and its dispersal to Europe depended upon human transport. Various Neolithic or Bronze age groups have been named as pioneer cultivators. These theses were tested by examining fossil pollen studies (FPSs), obtained from the European Pollen Database. Many FPSs report Cannabis or Humulus (C/H) with collective names (e.g. Cannabis/Humulus or Cannabaceae). To dissect these aggregate data, we used ecological proxies to differentiate C/H pollen, as follows: unknown C/H pollen that appeared in a pollen assemblage suggestive of steppe (Poaceae, Artemisia, Chenopodiaceae) we interpreted as wild-type Cannabis. C/H pollen in a mesophytic forest assemblage (Alnus, Salix, Populus) we interpreted as Humulus. C/H pollen curves that upsurged and appeared de novo alongside crop pollen grains we interpreted as cultivated hemp. FPSs were mapped and compared to the territories of archaeological cultures. We analysed 479 FPSs from the Holocene/Late Glacial, plus 36 FPSs from older strata. The results showed C/H pollen consistent with wild-type C. sativa in steppe and dry tundra landscapes throughout Europe during the early Holocene, Late Glacial, and previous glaciations. During the warm and wet Holocene Climactic Optimum, forests replaced steppe, and Humulus dominated. Cannabis retreated to steppe refugia. C/H pollen consistent with cultivated hemp first appeared in the Pontic-Caspian steppe refugium. GIS mapping linked cultivation with the Copper age Varna/Gumelniţa culture, and the Bronze age Yamnaya and Terramara cultures. An Iron age steppe culture, the Scythians, likely introduced hemp cultivation to Celtic and Proto-Slavic cultures.

 

[Burro Johnson]

does anyone know the potency of strains 100 years ago 200 years ago 500 years ago 1000 and 10,000?

 

[jumpincactus]

Interesting info

Interesting info

How Cannabis Came to Jamaica
Jamaica was claimed for Spain by Christopher Columbus in 1494 by conquering the native Taíno people, who were the island's inhabitants. It was not colonized by the British government until about 1655, by which point a majority of the Taíno population had succumb to disease, famine, or forced labor. From 1655 until the mid-1800’s, the British shipped slaves from West Africa to toil the land and harvest the coveted sugar plantations. By 1810, Britain had abolished slavery, but it continued in Jamaica until the African slaves rebelled and burned the plantations of white slave owners. Emancipation was finally granted in 1838.
After the rebellions, plantation owners had to seek new workers to till their fields and began to import indentured servants from East India. It was these East Indian laborers who brought over the first seedlings of cannabis indica that sparked a movement.
India’s influence on cannabis in Jamaica is also evident in common phrasing. “Ganja,” the preferred moniker for cannabis, is a Hindi word passed down from Sanskrit – “gāñjā” means “hemp” or “hemp resin.”
Cannabis quickly became a mainstay in Jamaica, particularly among the lower, working classes of society. It was common in the rural countryside and in the poor, black districts of larger towns. Despite this widespread usage, the Jamaican government quickly outlawed the herb with the Ganja Law of 1913, led by plantation owners who tried to ply workers with rum (which they could profit from), but in spite of these efforts, the love of the leaf was growing.

The Birth of Rastafarian Culture
Ganja was firmly rooted in society by the 1920’s, which is when the black religious consciousness movement known as “Rastafari” came to the islands. Rastafari was a religion created in Ethiopia by Haile Selassie I, known as the Emperor of Ethiopia. In Amharic, one of the languages of Ethiopia, “Ras” means “head” and “Tafari” is a term meaning “revered one.”
The emergence of Rastafarian culture cemented the culture of cannabis in Jamaica. Rastafarians regularly use cannabis spiritually during ceremonies as a meditation aid. During “reasoning” sessions, Rastas gather to smoke the “holy herb” and discuss moral quandaries while passing the ganja clockwise around the circle. In times of war, the passing of the ganja is done counterclockwise to connect with “Jah,” the singular God that Rastas worship.
The use of the holy herb is not only considered a mind-altering substance, but its use is supposed to lead to a deeper faith. Cannabis is also used during Rastafarian “groundation” celebration ceremonies, which are marked with singing, dancing, feasting, and smoking the celebratory herb.
Rastafarians consider cannabis a part of the Tree of Life mentioned in the Bible and believe that “the herb is the key to new understanding of the self, the universe, and God. It is the vehicle to cosmic consciousness.”

 

[Elmer Bud]

G `day JIC

East India could be Bangladesh or Burma in the old British Empire .
Coolies also came to East Africa and Malaysia in large numbers .

East India supplied a lot of cannabis to the rest of India and for exports . Taxed by the local administration .


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[TanzanianMagic]

I think there is a linguistic link between the trading empire of Malabar, and the trading empire of Malawi/Maravi. The consonants MLB are very similar/the same as MRV. In Bantu languages (and Chinese) L's and R's are interchangeable, and p/b and v/w are glottolly very close.

Then, they're both the names of trading empires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabar_region

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabar_region#/media/File:Malabar_region,_Kerala,_India.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maravi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maravi#/media/File:Maravi_Kingdom_map_c._1650s.svg

By the way Maravi is a different spelling of Malawi, like in Lake Malawi and Malawi Gold.

Malabar is located between the Western Ghats mountains and the Indian Ocean. Kerala, Idukki.

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/ind...t-you-may-never-get-your-hands-on-264249.html

(India Times) Asia's Best Marijuana Is Grown In India And Its In Kerala. Here's The Full Story Of Idukki Gold
Bobins Abraham Updated: January 24, 2017

The name once again comes from where it is grown - Idukki in Kerala. The district which falls in the western ghats is an ideal setup to grow some real strong stuff.

When I say real strong stuff, that is derived from the expression and excitement of many weed smokers, I have seen when I say that "I am from Idukki".​

 

[Water-]

Cannabis is indigenous to Europe and cultivation began during the Copper or Bronze age: a probabilistic synthesis of fossil pollen studies



.Conventional wisdom states Cannabis sativa originated in Asia and its dispersal to Europe depended upon human transport. Various Neolithic or Bronze age groups have been named as pioneer cultivators. These theses were tested by examining fossil pollen studies (FPSs), obtained from the European Pollen Database. Many FPSs report Cannabis or Humulus (C/H) with collective names (e.g. Cannabis/Humulus or Cannabaceae). To dissect these aggregate data, we used ecological proxies to differentiate C/H pollen, as follows: unknown C/H pollen that appeared in a pollen assemblage suggestive of steppe (Poaceae, Artemisia, Chenopodiaceae) we interpreted as wild-type Cannabis. C/H pollen in a mesophytic forest assemblage (Alnus, Salix, Populus) we interpreted as Humulus. C/H pollen curves that upsurged and appeared de novo alongside crop pollen grains we interpreted as cultivated hemp. FPSs were mapped and compared to the territories of archaeological cultures. We analysed 479 FPSs from the Holocene/Late Glacial, plus 36 FPSs from older strata. The results showed C/H pollen consistent with wild-type C. sativa in steppe and dry tundra landscapes throughout Europe during the early Holocene, Late Glacial, and previous glaciations. During the warm and wet Holocene Climactic Optimum, forests replaced steppe, and Humulus dominated. Cannabis retreated to steppe refugia. C/H pollen consistent with cultivated hemp first appeared in the Pontic-Caspian steppe refugium. GIS mapping linked cultivation with the Copper age Varna/Gumelniţa culture, and the Bronze age Yamnaya and Terramara cultures. An Iron age steppe culture, the Scythians, likely introduced hemp cultivation to Celtic and Proto-Slavic cultures.

Hey Elmer Bud,

why did you give me negative rep for this new information that Sam mentioned and Mexcurandero420 cited?

does it some how offend you?

if you had read the link you would see how it connects to Cannabis getting to India, which of course relates to how it got to Jamaica