What Are The Best Nutes?

[pinecone]

I agree - I only use standard "Miracle Grow" for vegging and a little generic tomato feed for flowering. I also use ordinary (albeit good quality) potting soil (NOT compost!) to grow in.

I regularly pull the magic # from a 600W HPS when I grow a good strain like Satori.

A lot of the "specialised" cannaibis ferts are little more than snake oil* IMHO. Even if they are better than the standard ferts from the local superstore, the extra benefits will only be realised when the growing conditions have been really dialled in for that strain.

I'm all for organic cannabis specific nutes as I think when combined with a good soil medium they provide a larger margin of error (no salt build-up, no need for PH adjustments, harder to overdo it, ect). The issue that I have is with all the "extra stuff" these companies would have you buy.

Example: BioBizz makes

(i) BioGrow and BioBloom - standard N-P-K formula fertilizers which I use (at a cost of less than $30 per year) and like
(ii) Plant strengthener - Leaf Coat (wtf?)
(iii) Plant energy booster - BioHeaven
(iv) Bio-stimulants (Root Juice, Alg-a-mic, TopMax)

They would have you believe that your yield and quality is going to suffer if you don't use (ii)-(iv). I've used Root Juice, TopMax, and Alg-a-mic, and don't believe they contribute to yield or quality in my growing environment. Most other companies have a similar range of plant tonics to "compliment" their N-P-K fertilizers.

Look around the boards here - there are many beginners literally kiling their babies by throwing to many nutes too early at them. - Much better to get the growing technique down before playing with so called "miracle" products that can cost 10 times more than something very similar.

Well this is a different topic, but it is probably as much the fault of the manufacturers who write the instructions on the bottles as it is the fault of the growers.

The sticky in the Madala forum entitled "Fertilizing Wisely" is worth a read - http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=13689

Pine

 

[Hydro-Soil]

If you've never grown before, FloraNovaBloom, RO water and the Lucas method are your friend.

You'll learn so much with so little issues and get such huge successes while learning.

 

[MrBananaSlug]

So with the lucas formula using flloranova products, you don't even get the two part, you only use 8ml/gal of the bloom, never the grow? Can you use the same formula (obviously in different ppms) all the way from rooted clone to flowering?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

So with the lucas formula using flloranova products, you don't even get the two part, you only use 8ml/gal of the bloom, never the grow?

Nope....

GH Flora is 3-part. Grow, Micro, Bloom.
With those nutes you don't use the Grow, only the Micro and Bloom.

FloraNova is a one-part mix that's the Lucas formula already mixed up so you only need to mix one.

Can you use the same formula (obviously in different ppms) all the way from rooted clone to flowering?

Yes! As long as the clone has roots of about an inch and a half to 2 inches, it does just fine in full strength.

I personally water seedlings twice with 1/4str before transplanting into full str. No worries.

 

[dongle69]

So with the lucas formula using flloranova products, you don't even get the two part, you only use 8ml/gal of the bloom, never the grow?

You should experiment with the FloraNova grow.
Lucas said his best harvest was when he started with FloraNova grow and then kept topping off with FloraNova bloom with no reservoir changes.
I like the FloraNova grow for veg and the first week or two of flower, depending on strain.
But this is the soil forum, so ignore the reservoir change part...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You should experiment with the FloraNova grow.
Lucas said his best harvest was when he started with FloraNova grow and then kept topping of with FloraNova bloom with no reservoir changes.
I like the FloraNova grow for veg and the first week or two of flower, depending on strain.

I've been meaning to try that again myself and see how that works. The problem I ran into the first time I tried it was the veg time ended up being extended and they outgrew the box.

Just like Lucas pointed out (and I missed the first time around) it's going to stretch the internodes a bit.
I figure if you're in a micro-environment, try sticking to the Bloom only and just starting the pH lower. Your plants will stay small enough that you're maximizing your lights.

 

[Widow Maker]

everyone and i mean everyone has a different setup you just need to get used to whichever line you choose and tweak it. haha, gotta love doing it too

for the past 6 grows apart from my current i used foxfarm mainly

ocean forest soil (80%)
perlite (20%)

big bloom
grow
tigerbloom
also the 3 solubles. i followed their schedule on the website.
also while following their schedule i also added

-2 drops superthrive/gal
-first 4 weeks of veg and when transplanting i used biobizz root juice 1 tblspoon/gal
-spray-n-grow (until 7 days 12/12.. every 5 days) with a wetting solution and GH chi for foliar (which i still use because its amazing)
-GH floranector (Last 5 weeks before flushing, and then when i flushed i used straight water with this, and ended with 1 week of straight water for some.

never had any ph issues.


i fed my plants that regime for 2 waterings in a row and then used straight water for the 3rd, repeat.


currently:

in soil mind you, im using the complete GH expert drain to waste schedule every other watering with 30% run off on both waterings, plus a bunch of fun stuff ill list. im testing GH for the first time on grow shop owners advice.. i almost went full humboldt.. so close, but went for GH plus a bunch of other fun stuff).... !!-Definitely

so its

http://generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_ExpertProgram_DrainToWaste.pdf

all of that with spring water in 60% soil 30% perlite and 10% vermiculite

my grow log will explain all this (in my sig)

-hygrozyme
-b'cuzz root
-spray-n grow with the awesome wetting agent i can never remember lol, with some chi in it for foliar (every 7 days)
-superthrive

1 gallon veg, 3 or 5 gallon flower i havent decided, maybe 4 ... my grows ALWAYS evolve and grow more to my style,... the green thumb we all have if you will.......... anyway,,,, since i was out of the grow business for 3 years i re-designed it all and i can only imagine it getting better. show em the love.

to each his own

best of luck. peace, do what you love and stay safe all!

::enjoying some very delicious stuff from a friend for now.

~WM

 

[Maj.PotHead]

to those who think organic dosent need PH down or up
you must not use my city water which is PH 7.2 right from the tap

Fox Farm Ocean Forrest soil 100% organic also i changed to flithy rich 100% organic same as FFOF just diff package and maker n half the price.

20ml per gal Pure blend pro grow still requires 1/4tsp PH down to achieve PH of 6.5

30ml per gal PBP bloom and 1/2tsp powdered koolbloom still require a dash of PH down to achieve 6.5PH

use R/O water and you'll most likely be usen PH up


liquid karma is great humic acid supplment also many other goodies in it combined with general hydroponics Diamond necture {fulvic acids} and the PBP grow you'll see amazing root and plant growth.

when ive used LK in the past i used it from veg upto 3rd wk of flowering
when i can afford it only 20$ a bottle diamond necture i use from veg upto pre harvest flush

heres my current feeding ferts regime http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2387134#post2387134
my hanna PH meter broke in 07 i havent used a meter except twice when i was running coco and changed ferts.

now some will say if ya use PBP ferts you'll need calmag+ well maybe maybe not lol
if ya use liquid karma with your ferts and PBP series ya wont need it. or if like me you water has alot of calmag in it i run between 400-600ppm from the tap ya wont need calmag+. if ya use R/O water you'll need calmag+

Pure blend pro series grow and bloom both are
premium natural and organic plant food

only the 2 are really needed grow for veg and bloom for flower but i use powdered koolbloom as a PK boost during flower a few times

 

[pinecone]

to those who think organic dosent need PH down or up you must not use my city water which is PH 7.2 right from the tap

I use bottled artesian spring water that PHs to 7.8-8.0, str8 FFOF (uncut), BioGrow, and BioBloom at low dosages (<3ml per gallon) which don't drop my PH much (7.4 at the most). I've been mixing in some Pure (by Botanica/Organica) dry plant food or a 50-50 mixture of Jamaican and Mexican guano in with the the soil for final transplants. I honestly don't think PH matters with this sort of medium as I've tried PHing down and it doesn't produce any better results.

Pine

 

[Maj.PotHead]

7.8-8.0 thats toxic for cannibis plants anything above 6.8 and below 6.0 for cannibis in soil is toxic. 2 many nutrients are locked out from the rootzone above 6.8 or below 6.0

@ph 6.5 all the nutrients are available to the plants roots even in a organic grow

 

[pinecone]

7.8-8.0 thats toxic for cannibis plants anything above 6.8 and below 6.0 for cannibis in soil is toxic. 2 many nutrients are locked out from the rootzone above 6.8 or below 6.0

@ph 6.5 all the nutrients are available to the plants roots even in a organic grow

Does it look like there is a major lockout problem with my grows?

I know what the the chart says, but I don't buy it. I don't think it PH is important with a medium like FFOF because:
(i) FFOF is PH adjusted to 6.3-6.8.
(ii) FFOF is rich in humus which plays a strong role in ionic exchange and nutrient take-up in organic grows, even when said nutrients are delivered well outside the PH range in the chart (see the Organics for Beginners sticky -
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53792). I don't understand ionic exchange or many other plant functions, but so what because....
(iii) my plants are v. healthy and yield well (and weren't any healthier when I thought PH was important and adjusted down with citric acid).

There are quit a few people that share the view that PH is not important in when growing in humus rich mediums.

As an aside: I tried a grow in coco and perlite with no PH adjustments and killed plants, so I'm not saying PH isn't important - just that it isn't important with the medium that I'm using.

Pine

 

[Maj.PotHead]

FFOF is PH adjusted to 6.3-6.8.

my bags i allways bought 1 state over said PH ballanced 5.5-6.5
so dose the new soil i now use filthy rich 100% organic same as FFOF but half the price from my local nursery

why 6.5 maybe because all the nutrients are available to the rootzone

after my plants have been transplanted they get watered then 3-4 days later they need it again then 2 days later thier dry and needing it again. when i water every other day water for 15-20% runoff PH is very important because 2-3 wks max the PH has fell through the floor

your indoneasion bat guano in the soil most likely brings the soils PH in a range the plants can handel also you light feedings. few yrs ago i played with FFOF soil and my waters PH value once i droped below 6.0 or above 6.8 i started seing problems. my waters PH currently when i'm feeding 6.5 the plants have great growth and color.

have you ever checked your runoff waters PH ??? bet it's between 6.0 n 6.8 even with your water at PH 7.4 going in.

i'll start off fresh rooted clones in 3x3x3 inch squares 10- 14 days later their in 2 liter soda bottels 10-14 days later thier in 1 gal bags then normally off to flower w/in 10-14 days

your artiesion spring water is that botteled or from a actual well on your property because PH of 7.8-8.0 seems rather hi. because humans need a specific PH value or they'll get very sick i think anything over 7.3.4 PH can cause us ppl problems. and why my tap water is @ PH 7.2 from the tap. most botteled spring water is just run through filters anyways not from actual springs they'll contain very low PPM's almost like R/O water {reverse osmossis}

how did you check your waters PH test strips or a digital meter and if a digi meter how long since it was calibrated. digital PHmeters should be calibrated once a month minumal granted a properly maintained digital meter will only be off few points when its re calibrated. but its a must untill ya learn your water PH and what your nutes do to your water at differant dossages

 

[pinecone]

your indoneasion bat guano in the soil most likely brings the soils PH in a range the plants can handel also you light feedings.

Mixing in the dry fertilizers is something that I've started doing recently as I don't really like measuring and mixing. It has worked out pretty well and I might try working toward a no feed soil mixture for the entire flowering cycle. I didn't really have any problems with the un-amended FFOF though. I did feed more though. Additionally, I have rooted cuttings, less mature seed plants, and moms in str8 FFOF (non-amended) that don't get much in the way of bottled nutrients. I don't really feed vegging plants much if at all, preferring to just transplant every couple weeks and let the OF give them what they need. They moms aren't as lush as my producer plants, but they are still healthy. The seedlings and cuttings that I'm vegging to flower are lush and healthy.

have you ever checked your runoff waters PH ??? bet it's between 6.0 n 6.8 even with your water at PH 7.4 going in.

My recollection is that it is lower. How much? I have no idea. I'll check it next time I water. It is an interesting question.

your artiesion spring water is that botteled or from a actual well on your property because PH of 7.8-8.0 seems rather hi. because humans need a specific PH value or they'll get very sick i think anything over 7.3.4 PH can cause us ppl problems. and why my tap water is @ PH 7.2 from the tap. most botteled spring water is just run through filters anyways not from actual springs they'll contain very low PPM's almost like R/O water {reverse osmossis}

Its not from a well on my property. It is from a semi-local artesian well. I'd post the info, but it might be too much of an identifier. It is definitely not the sort of processed water that you are referring to. In fact, this particular company specifically states that their water is "natural", meaning that no minerals or chemicals have been removed. I suspect the mineral content of my water is high.

how did you check your waters PH test strips or a digital meter and if a digi meter how long since it was calibrated. digital PHmeters should be calibrated once a month minumal granted a properly maintained digital meter will only be off few points when its re calibrated. but its a must untill ya learn your water PH and what your nutes do to your water at differant dossages

I have a Milwaukee PH meter. It is a pretty nice one. I bought it because I wanted to know more about my grow. I then discovered that the water I was using was pretty high on the PH scale and started adjusting down. This was years ago. I realized this adjustment wasn't doing any good and stopped using it. In response to some of these PH discussion, I calibrated it again at 7.01 and checked my water and nutrient solutions again. I'm fairly sure it is accurate.

There is a whole tribe of people that think PH in organic grows with humus rich mediums isn't important, so I am not inventing my own theory here or standing alone in this.

Pine

 

[Maj.PotHead]

Its not from a well on my property. It is from a semi-local artesian well. I'd post the info,

right on very undertsnadable dont blame ya but buddy the 7.8-8.0 PH seems real high

i live in the mohave desert dont matter what rock i live under in the valley water from the tap has been 7.2 . when it rains and water evaporates alkaline is left on the surface esp on dry lake bottoms

you've got a nice plant in the pic 4sure

in the past i've used mexican bat guano in veg as top soil amend
jamacian bat guano or indoneasion guano during flower as top soil amend

i've used in the lineup
fox farm grow big tiger bloom and bigbloom organice based ferts in quart bottels they where ok but
i switched to
liquid karma in 1 gal
diamond necture in 1 gal
sweet in 1 gal
seaweed extract in quart
pure blend pro grow in 1 gal
pure blend pro bloom in 1 gal.
lol then i droped the LK kept the reast
then the seaweed extract was dropped rest was kept
i ended up just
pure blend pro grow in 1 quart
pure blend pro bloom in 1 quart
powdered koolbloom
i figured why have 300$ invested in ferts when 40$ is alls that needed

i ran coco for few runs last summer/fall with sucess no ph meter i borrowed Sirsmokealots one time, i fed ferts every day watered untill 20-25% runoff achieved. my PPM's ran 1120 the ferts used
general hydroponics
flora grow
flora micro
flora bloom
liquid and powdered kool bloom
i was very happy with the flora series clean for a salt based fert 1 day i'll convert to coco full time and go back

i'm sure as i have you yourself have used alot of different ferts

srry to have throwen your thread off some i can understand ya askn whats the best ferts
when there like 30+ different makers of ferts type thing. it can be confusing
some ferts require part A/B/C/D other lines like advanced nutrients require 20 diff lol to be compleate and then ya have
botanicares
pure blend pro grow and bloom nothing else needed to veg or flower unles ya use R/O water then calmag+

 

[medicine_man_bc]

anyone can grow pot with almost any available nutes, but medical growers in bc who want to produce the biggest most resinous buds for the highest yields, most potent and best hash and oil use advanced nutrients. NOT FOR INEXPERIENCED GROWERS or people using cfl or low budget setups respectfully. only for hid lighting, c02 injection(prefered) to grow medical grade cannabis. if your strain lacks medical qualities, i have no more advice.

 

[guest101]

Medicine man you seem like a marketeer for AD...

 

[Maj.PotHead]

anyone can grow pot with almost any available nutes, but medical growers in bc who want to produce the biggest most resinous buds for the highest yields, most potent and best hash and oil use advanced nutrients

lol they need my strains to do that {biggest most resinous buds for the highest yields, most potent and best hash and oil}

AN is fine if you have very deep pockets

heres NorCal Goo{fm} x Deep Chunk{m} @38-40 days of 12/12



growen with organic soil oops and duel 400w lighta 1xhps 1xmh
pure blend pro grow during veg
pure blend pro bloom n powdered koolbloom for flower

ya'll in BC have nothing on us down here we smoke ya'll

 

[Closet_Grower]

Im using Advanced Nutrients micro-grow-bloom system

Im also using F-1, B-52, and Big Bud

Im just low balling the doses for now cause I cant seem to figure out a proper feeding schedule... Im going to get a PPM meter soon so I can be sure im not overdoing it, but does anyone have any system they like for AN and selected additives, not the whole line like they suggest! lol, thanks

 

[Maj.PotHead]

oh what the heck this plant same as above plant was harvested day 64 yield dry was 107 grams

 

[johnipedestran]

well since this is posted in Soil section.....

I will say I have been having very good results with a properly amended soil mix. Get it cooking, and all you need is water.

I supplement during flower with various mixes of teas.

Search Sunshine Mix, organic soil mix on here and you will find some very good ideas

peace
jip

and since I just read some of the other BS spread on this thread---ya don't need ADVANCE NUTES to do the job. they ain't bad, but they sure are not the cats ass either. the best growers grow organic.