Washingtons initiative 502

[Marquis de Sod]

Legalized weed. Great! except it does nothing to stop Federal harassment, and gives 5 nanograms limit for a DUI. $1000/yr for permit to grow, too.

WHAT A CROCK. VOTE NO! Things are fine as they are now, with medical cards, etc. no need to turn WA into CA with all the trouble they have in L.A. and Oakland. We need to stop this war in Washington DC. a State law does nothing.

 

[vta]

Legalized weed. Great! except it does nothing to stop Federal harassment, and gives 5 nanograms limit for a DUI. $1000/yr for permit to grow, too.

WHAT A CROCK. VOTE NO! Things are fine as they are now, with medical cards, etc. no need to turn WA into CA with all the trouble they have in L.A. and Oakland. We need to stop this war in Washington DC. a State law does nothing.

Well...things are not fine the way it is now...maybe for you but not everyone.

A new crime-data analysis has found that 241,000 people in Washington were arrested for misdemeanor marijuana possession over the last quarter-century, adding fuel to a campaign seeking to make this state the first to legalize recreational marijuana sales.

So just in WA a quarter million people have been arrested for cannabis alone. 25 years...10,000 people a year or thereabouts.

Please tell me about the "trouble" in LA and Oakland? I live in LA and don't see anything different than 10 years ago. That is from the perspective of a patient. Clubs and such...they have been getting raided since before 215 and will continue to unless fed law changes. 215 is still worth it...glad I have it...it is a marvelous law!

The dui thingy....well correct me if i'm wrong but....isn't it CURRENTLY ILLEGAL to drive with thc in your system? Meaning...if a cop pulls you over because you are driving like an ass and has you tested...and you come back positive with ANY traces of cannabis..you get a dui. With this law...you now can have .1, .2, .3 and .4 nanograms in your system and be LEGAL. Now I know that any threshold measuring metabolites will not indicate intoxication and that it is a BS way to test for intoxication. That being said....this law will need to be reworked...and it will when what I just said is proven. I could stop smoking for a week and I would still be above that limit...but the "driving" part, or lack there of, was a major reason prop19 did not pass.

You cannot expect the 1st legalization law that gets passed...to be everything we want or expect. Millions of people...millions of opinions.

I will admit that the dui part sucks...but 502 is a very important step in ending this war.

The permit price is cheap! If your growing commercially...that is a non issue. I pay way more than that in licenses and fees for my non-cannabis related business. Shit it costs about $50,000 to get a license to sell booze in my town....

Also you ended by saying that it needs to happen at the fed level and not the state. You could not be more wrong! Take a look at history...the states ended prohibition way before the feds....otherwise it would not of happened...that is a fact! Without the support of state and local authority, the feds could not do it on their own...thus they ended prohibition. Today....the DEA has only 5,000 agents...and that's worldwide.

 

[crazybear]

I hope 502 passes

 

[Puffaluffagus]

Legalized weed. Great! except it does nothing to stop Federal harassment, and gives 5 nanograms limit for a DUI. $1000/yr for permit to grow, too.

WHAT A CROCK. VOTE NO! Things are fine as they are now, with medical cards, etc. no need to turn WA into CA with all the trouble they have in L.A. and Oakland. We need to stop this war in Washington DC. a State law does nothing.

This is the same crap from growers that killed prop 19
I was hoping it would be different outside of CA
But nope, it's the same narrow little "i got's mine, f**k the rest of you" garbage

They need to have a vote for legalization in a non med state, so we don't run into this kind of opposition from people that are supposed to be supporting the movement.

 

[DryNobBob]

The Arkansas scene is looking hopeful, I agree with you, if its legalized in a med state, does that throw the med status and such out the door?

This is the same crap from growers that killed prop 19
I was hoping it would be different outside of CA
But nope, it's the same narrow little "i got's mine, f**k the rest of you" garbage

They need to have a vote for legalization in a non med state, so we don't run into this kind of opposition from people that are supposed to be supporting the movement.

 

[huligun]

I think that if 502 passes you will see the police shifting all their enforcement efforts elsewhere. They will have to create a new boogyman like what Nixon did when he seen all those pot smoking hippies that assembled against him and his policies. He was just breaking up an angry mob when he declared the war on drugs.

 

[yortbogey]

VOTE ~ YES.... please
WE got to start sum where....
the DUI clause is only to make the main stream happy....the 5 nanogram thing will get adjusted... for certain... once it's challenged ..a few times....
previous DUI regulations have worked to control...alcohol, abuse and auto related deaths...
attaching this clause to the idea is a simple way of invoking regulation and control....
as with EVERYTHING in this life....
NO_BIG_DEAL.... if U get too drunk and drive U get caught...
if U get too stoned and drive { it will show}.... U get caught...
period.... in reality this is only fare... it's called equality for the stoned and NOTstoned alike....and then the only way main stream WA.... will go for it...even Steven....

as for the FEDS.... they will have a lot more to worry w/.... like the Big Cat operations in Colorado.... and the WA state govt.....who is pushing hard for better Federal regulations and guidelines......this will have too come to put a reign on the whole problem ...eventually leading to a rescheduling on the drug class for MJ.....

as for the FEE's...... well boys and girls..... as w/ EVERYTHING.... U gotta pay too play....
still cheaper than court and lawyer fees.....BY ~FAR.....besides that's part of the whole plan.... for WA state to make the $$$$$.....this justifies the program....and will prove it works....


remember WE have to start sum where..... and this is a better point than ANY others I've seen get this far....

I' mean really.....U wanna cock-block the chance for our beloved MJ to go public.....
because U'r afraid of a few rule changes..... come on

embrace the new and flow w/ the wind of change......

 

[huligun]

You say you need to spend $1000 to grow, and for some that may be too much. But what happens if you get caught growing? I doubt it will still be felony drug manufacturing. And he stigma attached to the arrest would not be the same if you are producing something for yourself that is now legal yet taxed to hell. I say pass the initiative and see where it goes. For a DUI to stick the cop has to have a valid reason to pull you over. Just don't give him one. Make sure your drive with care and make sure all of your equipment is working. Don't blow smoke on a motorcycle cop from an open window.

 

[Marquis de Sod]

If this law is voted down, a BETTER one will pop up next year. that is the way things are always going here in WA. so why settle for a crap law now? as for oakland/l.a., correct me if i'm wrong, but there are people there doing prison time now for having dispensaries, seattle has had our's busted too. but i, having a green card, dont have any issues now growing or possessing or anything else (other than i grow like shit and cant seem to stay under the 15 plant limit).

dui's, yes you thro out the probable cause the minute you got pulled over, but this nanogram limit will get me a dui even for what i smoked last night. if you read the whole issue in the voters pamphlet, you see the whole deal. 250 to apply for a permit to grow, PLUS another thousand for doing it. why would i want to do that? i can barely make my light bill as it is.

 

[huligun]

 

[huligun]

Your points are valid Marguis.

One thing though, to get a lot of people to come on board a good source of revenue has a better chance. Washington State is starving for revenue and the voters vote down any new taxes (candy, soda pop, license tabs) and the government in Washington has a high taste. The best way to pass any initiative is to throw a lot of money out of it. That way the others that do not smoke will vote for it to take tax heat off of themselves. A lot of people on the streets say they are voting for it just for the revenue it will generate.

Welcome to politics my friend.

As far as being a bad grower is concerned, you just need to focus and maybe learn some shit. Growing good weed is not rocket science. Get the strain you love and learn how to grow it.

 

[yortbogey]

personally....everyone should vote YES..... just to FORCE the FEDS to DEAL w/ the issue and lay down sum real guidelines...period....

 

[huligun]

personally....everyone should vote YES..... just to FORCE the FEDS to DEAL w/ the issue and lay down sum real guidelines...period....

I have to whole heartily agree with you on this one big time.'

Our strength in the federal arena is our numbers, our lobby. The more states and the more people that stand up to abolish this ridiculous prohibition the better. That is truly the only way, the only legal way to get their attention. The pot smokers during the Nixon administration just got more oppression.

 

[Puffaluffagus]

If this law is voted down, a BETTER one will pop up next year. that is the way things are always going here in WA. so why settle for a crap law now?.

Exactly what the NO crowd in CA said about prop 19.
I'm glad I didn't hold my breath waiting for that better law to show up in CA.

You vote no, and it tells the feds that the public doesn't want MJ, legal or med, and encourages them to work that much harder to take down the med program.

 

[SMOKE-ONE]

Quoted from Marquis de Sod:
"From what was said in the debate, and the way i read the law in the voters' pamphlet, i gotta side with the NO side.

#1, it's just going to hammer anybody getting pulled over for a dui. lets face it. the Reasonable cause thing is out the window because the cops already needed to have it to pull you over in the first place. then if they smelled it, which they will, you are screwed. and 5 nanograms? Get real! if you smoked it a week ago, you're goin downtown.

#2, it will legalize NOTHING because the federal laws aren't going anywhere. it will just turn WA into a great big Shit fight, like what's going on in Cali.

#3, Did you see the cost of the permits to grow? Are they out of their fucking minds? Who has $1250 to grow fucking pot plants?

#4 25% SALES TAX ON EVERY TRANSACTION! Grower to distributor, distributor to retailer. pot will NOT be cheaper. You will not enjoy paying your state sales tax Quarterly and the MASSIVE FINES FOR PAYING THEM LATE."

Wow!! Im in favor of marijuana legalization,But at what cost!!That is like letting a chick hit you with a dildo,just to get a BJ!!

personally....everyone should vote YES..... just to FORCE the FEDS to DEAL w/ the issue and lay down sum real guidelines...period....

The Fed's will defianetly "Deal" with 502 with many,many raids.I personally think it's better to let sleeping dogs lay.This bill will force the feds to begin alot of investigations and procecutions in Washington.Im in favor of legalization of marijuana,but 502 will only bring more federal raids.If Mit Romney wins the election(which he probably will) ,he promises to crush medical marijuana tooth and nail.So how do you think he will deal with the state of Washington?

Also found this interesting:
Why you should/or shouldn’t vote for I-502.
Washington’s current marijuana laws bring to mind one of the few practical things I learned at the Yale Law School. It’s best not to try to make things clearer than they really are.
RECENT AMENDMENTS TO WASHINGTON’S MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAW: Last year the Washington legislature passed Engrossed Second Substitute Senate Bill 5073. It legalized the manufacture and distribution and possession of medical cannabis, changing these acts from a crime for which there might be an “affirmative defense” to not a crime. Our Governor asked the United States Attorney General what would be the Government’s policy should such a law pass. The Attorney General responded that anyone who participated, including state employees, could be subject to the full spectrum of criminal and civil (forfeiture) sanctions.

Why you should/or shouldn’t vote for I-502.
Washington’s current marijuana laws bring to mind one of the few practical things I learned at the Yale Law School. It’s best not to try to make things clearer than they really are.
RECENT AMENDMENTS TO WASHINGTON’S MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAW: Last year the Washington legislature passed Engrossed Second Substitute Senate Bill 5073. It legalized the manufacture and distribution and possession of medical cannabis, changing these acts from a crime for which there might be an “affirmative defense” to not a crime. Our Governor asked the United States Attorney General what would be the Government’s policy should such a law pass. The Attorney General responded that anyone who participated, including state employees could be subject to the full spectrum of criminal and civil (forfeiture) sanctions.


The Governor vetoed all of the parts of the bill that might have exposed state employees to liability. The law, as originally enacted, called for state regulation of manufacture and distribution of medical cannabis. It provided for registration of patients and providers. One who was listed on the registry would not be arrested if in compliance with the state law. The catch: the governor vetoed the registration parts of the law, so there is no registry. Most law enforcement are now considering the “no arrest” provisions to be orphaned, that is, they have no affect absent registration.
One federal judge in Spokane, however, doesn’t read it that way. Judge William Nielsen recently held that since the part of the law that was not vetoed specifically states that legitimate patients and providers shall not be arrested, law enforcement officers applying for search warrants for marijuana must now first establish that the marijuana is not medically authorized.
This ruling is not binding on any other judges, state or federal, but it is certainly compelling authority that this is indeed the state of the law. I wish I could agree, but I fear that state judges will rule simply that in vetoing the registration aspects of the new law, the governor essentially vetoed the rest of the amendments as well. It’s a defense worth raising, but don’t pass up any great offers in reliance on prevailing with this one.

I-502
This is the issue that has split the Hempfest family. They voted to be neutral on this law, meaning that Vivian and others who might oppose it are muzzled. NORML voted to endorse it with some caveats that have been buried. NORML's primary concern is that it won't work and that it will leave us with an unacceptable green DUI law. My personal opposition has caused some confusion, since I’m on the NORML board that voted to endorse. My feeling then, and now, is that NORML had no choice but to endorse it with reservations. I am not so bound and I must speak out about what I see. To me, the drawbacks of I-502 outweigh any of the possible positive effects it might generate. My position hasn't changed in decades: the only way to deal with federal prohibition is to completely decriminalize cannabis under state law, and economically force the feds to adopt a more sensible approach. State revenue through taxes can wait.

In the past I’ve been quoted disparaging I-502. I've said it won't work, it's a government sting, a Machiavellian masterpiece, and possibly even a circle jerk. Now that I’ve read it carefully, maybe I like it. It’s guaranteed to bring me lots of work. But do I like it as public policy? Should you? Here are some bullet points to help you make that decision. You should vote for I-502 if you believe it will work. This means you must believe that:

*** Growers, distributors, and retailers will risk federal prosecution to sell Washington-approved pot by registering with the state and complying with a maze of regulations that will make participation in the scheme unprofitable and prohibitively complex;
*** The mandatory tax scheme under I-502 (25% at three defined transaction points before the final sale to consumers that will roughly double the price before factoring in production/distribution/overhead costs and profits) will price legal growers and sellers out of the cannabis market;
*** Despite the clear language of I-502 that makes it the legal duty of the liquor control board to cooperate with all federal agencies, the liquor board will not turn over the information gleaned from the registry of growers and distributors;
*** The federal government will not live up to its repeated threats and immediately shut down the entire scheme when it passes;
*** The chances of the above happening – and the scheme working to establish a legitimate retail market for cannabis – outweigh the damage done by a per se DUI law that has been rejected by every legislature that has studied it because it will make it illegal for most patients (and all users under 21) to drive long after any impairment has faded. This could mean that you will be per se DUI days or even weeks after your last toke.

That's a lot of believing. I'm pretty gullible, but I can't do it. I see I-502 as a disaster that will fail to lure participants into the legal market in numbers sufficient to satisfy the demand, fail to sneak past federal prohibition, leave us having exhausted the resources for reform, and stuck with a terrible DUI law that has been rejected by every state legislature that has considered it. This law cannot be vetoed, changed, or amended for two years.

Now if you believe all that, then come sit down here beside me. I have a few other things I'd like to sell you.

 

[narniachronic]

http://youtu.be/BRcJv5F-yyI
I'm so sick of people's retarded arguments. It doesn't change the medical law. Continue to grow and do your thing. Besides, your goal either way should be to keep your grow quiet and secret (not just to avoid getting caught by police) anyway.
As for the DUI, someone already stated it, if you get caught now driving your still fucked. They cant just pull you over and fuck you, unless your being a fucking idiot. Just like now! Honestly if your so high that you do something fucking stupid enough to get pulled over, then you shouldn't be driving...
As for federal law, yea its still going to be illegal. Just like it is now. You obviously don't care now so why would you care after it passes.
A lot of marijuana users are waiting for some magical "perfect" law to pass that legalizes everything with no punishment, but I am sorry that's not how shit works. You have to give something to the people who are scared of weed to relax them a bit and feel more comfortable with this giant change.
I personally plan on getting my weed in the same damn place I do now if it passes, but I will feel a lot more comfortable rolling around with an OZ.

 

[VenturaHwy]

It is already legal in WA, you just need an authorization. I certainly don't want to give the state or feds any control over cannabis that they don't already have. Look at the control they had over alcohol for all these years, they had a monopoly...

I am leaning to vote against the law because once the govt starts to make money they will want to control it totally. I will read the initiative before I decide.

 

[SeaMaiden]

It is already legal in WA, you just need an authorization. I certainly don't want to give the state or feds any control over cannabis that they don't already have. Look at the control they had over alcohol for all these years, they had a monopoly...

I am leaning to vote against the law because once the govt starts to make money they will want to control it totally. I will read the initiative before I decide.

God, how I wish everyone would do that. I know, wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first. I'm not looking for full hands.

 

[Jamorg13]

I read the entire initiative. It is NOT legalization. To be a grower you have to submit a criminal background check with fingerprints to the FBI. WHAT THE FUCK? The state only wants to allow 1000 growers, and it is likely that only the people people with the proper $$$ to grease hands with will actually become state registered growers. As of now, the start up cost is relatively cheap. And this initiative does not take ANY of the current laws off the books! If you pass a joint to someone, FELONY DELIVERY! Grow a few plants in your closet without being a "state registered producer"? Felony manufacturing!! Over an ounce? FELONY POSSESSION. That is an actual decrease in the amount needed to be a felon, currently our state law says 40 grams or over is a felony. And the 21 yrs old thing is a joke, but that is an argument in itself. I know people who were patients who died before 21, who would have otherwise had to take oxycontin in there last months of living. I 502 says ZERO TOLERANCE for under 21. That means if a 20 year old kid has any amount whatsoever of thc in his blood, even if he smoked 15 days ago, he will receive a DUI.

 

[growbig789]

http://blog.norml.org/2012/11/01/final-week-polls-indicate-washington-state-likely-to-pass-marijuana-legalization/

Its leading in latest polling 56 to 37, 7% undecided... thats pretty impressive... look its not perfect but you can't realistically expect perfection with the first step. I agree with some others here, you gotta get the ball rolling. Its more about the states starting to stand up to the feds and putting pressure on them to respect what the people want.

I-502 will start that process, and I think it (and hopefully Colorado) will put us much closer to the tipping point where a lot of dominoes start falling..