Was looking for someone who understands a little bit about elemental sulfur and how it can be used to lower pH.

[Growdo Baggins]

Erica Reinheimer says this,

"In the soil, elemental sulfur is oxidized by bacteria which in turn produce H+ and sulfate ions. The H+ acidifies the soil and the sulfate ion remains as a plant food or else is leached by rain or irrigation. The microbes do their work best in a warm moist environment. The process stops if it is too hot, too cold, too dry or too waterlogged. In cold climates spring application is preferred. Not much microbial activity is happening in the winter, and if the soil is flooded, the sulfur can be converted to hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell). Hydrogen sulfide kills plant roots. If winters are mild, fall application is preferred. When soil temperatures are over 55 F the elemental sulfur is significantly worked on by microbes."

I've thinking about this, and one of my dilemmas with my living soil I've been getting ready was on the soil test my ph was low. It was 5.6 and even lower on the Paste, 5.3. I was also low in sulfur. So if I added the amount of sulfur I needed to meet target levels it would've dropped my ph too much. BUT, since I added my amendments while it was still cold outside. Below 55° most days, maybe not below 55° all day long but generally colder when I added all my amendments.

My question is, after reading what Erica wrote wouldn't you think that by adding it at that time, below 55°, it would've dropped or effected the ph less bc less microbial activity would be going on and less H+ would have been produced?

Thanks guys. I don't know if this is ridiculous to ask or anything, I'm just trying to learn stuff and talking about it with people who know some stuff helps.

Also if you know of any other forum where it might be a better place to ask this question, lemme know.

Here's a pic of my buds

 

[Dr.Mantis]

Erica Reinheimer says this,

"In the soil, elemental sulfur is oxidized by bacteria which in turn produce H+ and sulfate ions. The H+ acidifies the soil and the sulfate ion remains as a plant food or else is leached by rain or irrigation. The microbes do their work best in a warm moist environment. The process stops if it is too hot, too cold, too dry or too waterlogged. In cold climates spring application is preferred. Not much microbial activity is happening in the winter, and if the soil is flooded, the sulfur can be converted to hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell). Hydrogen sulfide kills plant roots. If winters are mild, fall application is preferred. When soil temperatures are over 55 F the elemental sulfur is significantly worked on by microbes."

I've thinking about this, and one of my dilemmas with my living soil I've been getting ready was on the soil test my ph was low. It was 5.6 and even lower on the Paste, 5.3. I was also low in sulfur. So if I added the amount of sulfur I needed to meet target levels it would've dropped my ph too much. BUT, since I added my amendments while it was still cold outside. Below 55° most days, maybe not below 55° all day long but generally colder when I added all my amendments.

My question is, after reading what Erica wrote wouldn't you think that by adding it at that time, below 55°, it would've dropped or effected the ph less bc less microbial activity would be going on and less H+ would have been produced?

Thanks guys. I don't know if this is ridiculous to ask or anything, I'm just trying to learn stuff and talking about it with people who know some stuff helps.

Also if you know of any other forum where it might be a better place to ask this question, lemme know.

Here's a pic of my buds View attachment 18831713

First off beautiful flower there, nice work!

If I understand correctly, you added elemental sulfur to your already acidic soil that is low in pH? If your pH is already low, adding sulfur will likely make that worse, depending on how much you added. Sulfur is slow to work, but I’ve never used it in indoor soil. It’s also very slow to do its work in outdoor soils, typically at least a year depending on the climate.

If you need more soil sulfur, and don’t want to acidify further, just add a sulfate salt. If you want an organic source, that could be something like langbenite or gypsum.

The other thing to note about soil sulfur is it is very dependent on your soil and waters residual alkalinity. Essentially, any free carbonates or bicarbonates will consume the protons before you see the pH change.

 

[Growdo Baggins]

But when I added the sulfur to my soil it was below 55°. So I was thinking maybe it didn't drop the pH as much. I'm going to do a slurry test today.

 

[KIS]

It’s going to drop pH over time. Better in the future to use gypsum as a way to get more sulfur when your pH is optimal or low. You can raise your pH using wollastonite or biochar or ag lime depending on your soil report and what cations are most needed.

 

[Three Berries]

Sulfur is going to have to be converted to H2SO4 to lower the pH. But first it has to become a sulfate -SO2-4

I bet adding it to H2O2 does some magic.....

 

[Growdo Baggins]

It’s going to drop pH over time. Better in the future to use gypsum as a way to get more sulfur when your pH is optimal or low. You can raise your pH using wollastonite or biochar or ag lime depending on your soil report and what cations are most needed.

I've got a little over 5 cups of gypsum in the 14 cubic foot of soil. I understand what you're saying though. It prob doesn't matter too much bc if the pH is low I can just raise it. I didn't add any extra sulfur, we just let come in what came in through the gypsum and mag and pot sulfate. I did sub out SRF for PhoSul bc it found it really cheap locally. It's got some sulfur in it, which would put me a bit higher on S than what my soil recommendation recommend. Thanks for the reply. I'm learning a lot bro.

 

[Redrum92]

Maybe a stupid question, but good to establish basics: what are your motives for adding elemental sulfur in the first place? Are you positive there isn't enough in your soil, and it's not just in an unavailable form? Or that another nutrient isn't locking it out?

 

[Growdo Baggins]

Maybe a stupid question, but good to establish basics: what are your motives for adding elemental sulfur in the first place? Are you positive there isn't enough in your soil, and it's not just in an unavailable form? Or that another nutrient isn't locking it out?

I got a soil analysis and and paste test from Logan's lab. It's low based on target levels set by an agronomist. I haven't grown in this soil yet. I just mixed my thirds and got a soil test. When I posted this it was more for just trying to understand how things work, rather than for any actual usage or anything. I got a soil prescription and amended based on what they suggested. I was letting the soil sit and let everything break down and I'll be starting in it after this run.

 

[Stoobeey]

Maybe a stupid question, but good to establish basics: what are your motives for adding elemental sulfur in the first place? Are you positive there isn't enough in your soil, and it's not just in an unavailable form? Or that another nutrient isn't locking it out?

Question I got my soil test back my my sulphur is waaaay over optimal ppm. I'm in organics. Is this going to cause massive toxicity? Any way I can level it out aside from keep in growing? My pH is just barely above optimum too and if suggested I add elemental sulphur (but I'm confused since I have a lot of S and I'm not trying to add more necessarily)

 

[Redrum92]

Question I got my soil test back my my sulphur is waaaay over optimal ppm. I'm in organics. Is this going to cause massive toxicity? Any way I can level it out aside from keep in growing? My pH is just barely above optimum too and if suggested I add elemental sulphur (but I'm confused since I have a lot of S and I'm not trying to add more necessarily)

The first line of treatment would be to do a lot of flushing with some pH corrected, filtered/low ppm water.

 

[Stoobeey]

Typical flush amount I presume even in living organics? Blanking on my pH and ppm off my filter (all water for plants is filtered.. it's my RO 5 stage minus the ro filter).
Ph and ppm of it I know are fairly optimal for the plants from when I first tested it after yanking the ro sleeve

 

[Stoobeey]

The first line of treatment would be to do a lot of flushing with some pH corrected, filtered/low ppm water.

Filter comes out as
6.6 and 258ppm. No way to re add the ro filter back without buying a new one

 

[Dr.Mantis]

I’ve never had sulfur tox issues, but as Redrum92 suggested flushing would be the way to go. In the past when I’ve had old over nutriented soil, I would buy one of those big “brew in a bag” plastic mesh filters, dump my soil in it, saturate with few gallons of water, adjust pH to 5 ish with citric acid and let it sit for a while. Then dump off the water and let it air dry for a few days before re amending.

Now that I use RO, i don’t have salt build up issues anymore. However, at 258 ppm your water isn’t bad. Mine was closer to 800.

 

[Redrum92]

Filter comes out as
6.6 and 258ppm. No way to re add the ro filter back without buying a new one

That isn't bad, much better than mine.

And I believe yea, flushing is same with organic soil as not, but I'm no expert, so hopefully somebody else will chime in. Basically just keep dumping water until the soil parameters are correct; can be a ton of water sometimes: anywhere from 1-10x the volume of the soil. For example if you're in a 3 gallon pot, probably bare minimum 3-4 gallons of water to fix, but could easily be 20, 30 if it's really bad.

 

[Stoobeey]

I’ve never had sulfur tox issues, but as Redrum92 suggested flushing would be the way to go. In the past when I’ve had old over nutriented soil, I would buy one of those big “brew in a bag” plastic mesh filters, dump my soil in it, saturate with few gallons of water, adjust pH to 5 ish with citric acid and let it sit for a while. Then dump off the water and let it air dry for a few days before re amending.

Now that I use RO, i don’t have salt build up issues anymore. However, at 258 ppm your water isn’t bad. Mine was closer to 800.

Thanks yeah my old apt was in the 7 to 800s and that's why I owned an RO set up. Alrighty guess I'll start flushing tonight. Yeah I've have clones from a clone company for like 2 mo and they are away behind . One plant is eating shit right now too. Never had this happen. I should have been able to flip the 1st 4 clones they sent me already. My new seeds are going to surpass the clones at this rate haha

 

[Stoobeey]

That isn't bad, much better than mine.

And I believe yea, flushing is same with organic soil as not, but I'm no expert, so hopefully somebody else will chime in. Basically just keep dumping water until the soil parameters are correct; can be a ton of water sometimes: anywhere from 1-10x the volume of the soil. For example if you're in a 3 gallon pot, probably bare minimum 3-4 gallons of water to fix, but could easily be 20, 30 if it's really bad.

I also failed to mention my test came back with nearly no P so that obviously doesn't help. Got seabird guano 0-11-0 arriving today. Will top dress and probably make a tea with it too. Not sure how I did that.

 

[Sasult]

I've thinking about this, and one of my dilemmas with my living soil I've been getting ready was on the soil test my ph was low. It was 5.6 and even lower on the Paste, 5.3. I was also low in sulfur. So if I added the amount of sulfur I needed to meet target levels it would've dropped my ph too much.

I tend to have the exact opposite problem, but same solution. Add dolomite to counter the PH shift, or foliar feed the sulfur. With a low PH you should add sulfur as gypsum to help buffer.

My question is, after reading what Erica wrote wouldn't you think that by adding it at that time, below 55°, it would've dropped or effected the ph less bc less microbial activity would be going on and less H+ would have been produced?

That only changes the speed not the total. This is an over time process, don't expect instant changes. Compare new measurements to the old and see if you are going in the correct direction. Also remember you just need the PH to be in the ballpark, because the plant can adjust the PH of the root zone.

 

[Growdo Baggins]

I tend to have the exact opposite problem, but same solution. Add dolomite to counter the PH shift, or foliar feed the sulfur. With a low PH you should add sulfur as gypsum to help buffer.

That only changes the speed not the total. This is an over time process, don't expect instant changes. Compare new measurements to the old and see if you are going in the correct direction. Also remember you just need the PH to be in the ballpark, because the plant can adjust the PH of the root zone.

Damn bro, this was very helpful. Thank you. I'm gonna read this again later tonight.

 

[Growdo Baggins]

Typical flush amount I presume even in living organics? Blanking on my pH and ppm off my filter (all water for plants is filtered.. it's my RO 5 stage minus the ro filter).
Ph and ppm of it I know are fairly optimal for the plants from when I first tested it after yanking the ro sleeve

I've been thinking about getting an ro system. Why don't you use the ro filter stage?

 

[Stoobeey]

I've been thinking about getting an ro system. Why don't you use the ro filter stage?

Since I'm in a living soil system I'd rather not fully strip my water if things like camg . I always got deficiencies later on in grow from using the RO. My previous apt I couldn't use even filtered water . My plants were literally dying from the tap.