Want to Know if Your Flowering Environment is Off?

[Huckster79]

I will post after harvest.

 

[DunHav`nFun]

This is a good question. At what point can you switch from full on growth, to premium quality environments, and still get maximum terpene/cannabinoid production? I'm looking forward to your results.

I'm not allergic to yield. Really, I'm not.

Not a damn thing wrong with havin yer cake and eat it too....the best of all worlds was what I strived for and achieved after yrs of trial and error , but I just got lucky where I live due to the RH levels in Hell.....anyways....

DonJuanMatuus`s threads are a prime example of yield with quality side by side where you live in Co when he figured out 75% RH was his sweet spot for explosive growth as well as budsite building , but it took awhile to see that low RH really does affect yield but not necessarily quality as you`ve found...regardless....

If you`re happy with your consistent results , then that`s all that matters....if it ain`t broke don`t fuck with it....aight....

Nuff outta my old ass this day....just moved back to my lil beach house after summer rentals were over and the `ol lady`s got me workin my ass off checkin crab traps , catchin redfish and speckled trout.....but...

It`s all good cuz it keeps my old ass active , and if ya don`t grow , ya wither.........

Peace...DHF........

 

[MileHighLife]

Dhf, love ypur outlook on many ways to do it right. Drives me nuts when people insist there is only one path to a good end. On that note i mean both about religion and weed

I have a new theory, well prob not new but new in my head, you folks seem to like delving into this topic so i will share, i will be trying this over next couple rounds and see what happens but any insight or constructive criticism before i get too deep. Just finishing a round in couple weeks with this method.but will try another one or two if it seems effective.

I have come to beleive the VPD thing makes total sense.... i have also come to beleive that lower temps and humidity may increase quality. So i trying going full VPD guidlines first part of flower. Also use co2 so will be in upper 80s and 70s rh if recall right. Aimed for that for first 5 weeks, then use a week to lower co2 and temp and humidity. Now co2 is 0 for supplimenting and temps are day 73 to 75 and night around 66...

My thought is vpd is right for full plant health, and if our goal was to raise the perfect plant in all
Aspects id say carry vpd on its full run, but bud effect is not neccesarily searved by a pefectly happy plant.. we ned stressors to steer the plant to do what we want to make atrong effect buds. So my thought is take full advantage of vpd style growth while building the plant and buds then use the stress of cool nights and dry conditions to develop bud quality one might not realize w vpd conditions right at end when the terpenoids and such really develop. , best of both worlds...?

Thoughts?..

I know my last round i got hit with that heatwave and no ac. Followed vpd, was best i could do for my girls at that point, so finished very hot and humid.. (then installed ac before next round went in. The plants looked picture perfect from the hot humid round, product lacks aroma and that special touch. Ita effective but only average and short lived.

Mybidea make sense or is it whacky?

You're right on. VPD through flower until the last 2 weeks then < 78 degrees, 0 co2 supplementation and get the humidity down as low as possible. As DHF put it ... having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Huckster79]

Just want to say i really appreciate the open discussion on here. So many threads the first time a differnce in technique is mentioned, someone says you must not know how to grow succesfully because i grow succeafully and thats not how i do it" nothing will ever be learned by those folks. You may be really good but your no expert unless you can be humble enought to know there are other ways to do it and to keep an open mind some may be better than your own ways.

Anyway, maybe the high rh didn't hurt it may have been the heat alone, 93 several days i say heat and humidity just due to the consensus i found saying high heat and or rh will do that, but confronted with contrary opinion or advise im intrigued not challenged... any thoughts on why the consensus is low rh and y you deviate from that with sucess?

 

[Tynehead Tom]

Trichome bearing plants. They change the number of trichomes they produce per square inch, according to humidity. The trichomes trap a micro-climate next to the plant, to help keep it hydrated.

When humidity is ultra-low, the trichome density is ultra-high. The room has to be kept cool or the transpiration rates go above healthy maximums.

Flowering in 80F+ temps and 70% humidity? You're genetically triggering fewer trichomes to be produced. Higher quality comes with lower temps and humidity.

Douglas

respectfully, I don't necessarily buy this theory because I believe genetics will play a big role in maximizing a particular cultivars expression of potency/trichome development in a given environment. Have a read thru my antenna seeds purplelazerlite grow.... even the breeder was amazed at how the plants expressed in my garden. I also try and keep my plant's environment closely matching the optimal numbers on the VPD chart. Nothing would convince me to change because while going by the VPD chart, I've flowered several varieties with an array of genetic background from full on sativas to heavy indica leaners, in the same room with results that exceeded my expectations and sure seemed to get me a lot of rep points LOL


I'm gonna read thru the whole thread but 25% humidity? I dunno about that even with lower temps. The only time I reduce humidity and put it out of balance with the VPD numbers would be if I was combatting a mold or mildew and needing to provide an dry hot environment , unfriendly to those nasty things.
I do however leave my plants for 72 hours darkness after taking at peak of ripeness, not before. I go by trichome color.
I don't make any claims that the 72 hrs does anything for the plant, they always look the same..... it's just what I was taught near 30 years ago and it's what I've always done.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

respectfully, I don't necessarily buy this theory because I believe genetics will play a big role in maximizing a particular cultivars expression of potency/trichome development in a given environment.

You're correct.

Looking back through the studies I formed my theory on, their data was incomplete. It's a growth rate issue. Beyond the environmental triggers of uv, and whatever else is affecting total trichome production, a lower growth rate creates less plant structure under those trichomes.

One of the main differences between a good run of mine and OPB, is the smoking experience is very similar to hash. OPB has a much greater 'burnt plant' taste to it. (OPB is Other People's Bud lol)

100 trichomes, on one square centimeter of flower, will taste a lot less like burnt plant, than 100 trichomes on 2 square centimeters of flower. No? Is a longer veg time really that terrible, considering the results?

I too appreciate the discussion in this thread. Very enlightening.

 

[Huckster79]

Yea so far a good balance of not just agreeing to agree nor throwing insults if we have different technique.

Do any of you guys use big containers? Im in 20 and 25 gallon containefs (2 fill my room) they are a homeade air pot, reg 25 gall planter w 1 inch holes drilled all over it lots of em, lined w weed block, the stuff u put under bark in the yard. I got my girls a bit dry as a moistute meter stuckk in side hole said moist but top was dry, bit too dry. How do i dry her out good when bottom is damp but all those roots above that on up are in the desert? Go back to smalker containers? Maybe tbrow in a frw inches of perlite at bottom? Any tnoughts?


Sorry prob gping a bit far from topic...

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Any roots-out type system works better at 75F, no? Drip, Soil, E&F, whatever?
One reason I love DWC is because the incoming air temps are 67-68F, perfect for keeping the res cool. The air temps hit around 72F at the canopy. This doesn't work well for roots-out hydro, and I'm pretty sure the same is for soil.

Anyone know of a way to keep the root zone at 75F and the canopy at 72F? lol

 

[shawkmon]

i love to give plants lots of darkness before harvesting, i didnt read past page 1 but i have lots of experience in this out of pure laziness, id have to pull plats out and put plants in but too lazy to chop, so i put them in the spare bedroom in darness till i got around to chopping .the plants love it, it gives more time for the plant to add weight, to dry out , to start to die or whatever .its a real good trick if yer going to reveg a plant , always give it 48 hours dark, then chop, then trim the rootball and transplant and give N ferts and put under 24 hours light, boom new growth in a week , the 48 hours dark resets the internal clock of the plant , .with all that said, i like 48 huors of dark before chop , it makes it of a higher quality for sure, its one trick to help get better weed, peace

 

[Huckster79]

Definetly stinkier this harvest, zero doubt. Unsure of weight. Bud structure was quite different so im not sure. This girl had more good sized solid colas, the last round had more smaller, but not all popcorn, buds. Though ele tric bill telling me lights are cheap to run compared to enviornmental conrols!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

i love to give plants lots of darkness before harvesting

The only time I've ever seen an 'improvement' due to putting plants in dark before harvest, is when the flowering environment was stressing the plants. They appreciate the unstressed dark period and 'show an improvement.'

Any time the environment has been stellar, I've seen zero change in aroma, weight, density or anything at all. When in the dark longer than a few days, the flowers tend to start to fluff up. That's it.

Seriously.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Definetly stinkier this harvest, zero doubt. Unsure of weight. Bud structure was quite different so im not sure. This girl had more good sized solid colas, the last round had more smaller, but not all popcorn, buds. Though ele tric bill telling me lights are cheap to run compared to enviornmental conrols!

So do you have a brief rundown on the environment throughout this run? Also the environment data on your past runs which were not as stinky?

Yes, keeping temps/RH low with environmental controls is much more expensive than high heat/rh growing.

 

[Huckster79]

My first run was a microgrow in an old freezer. End of flower I got temps to upper 70s no Co2 as they had gotten through much of veg and up to about two weeks out from harvest. I was able to get rh to around 50 just w silica gel (lots of it , bought as kitty litter at Walmart). Great smells

Second run was in 6X6 flower room. Was able to pull off similar conditions, using similar tequnique w silica just updated w it in perforated buckets filled w activated carbon, silica and bathroom fart fan mounted on top. But ambient temp and humidity where lower and worked out fine.

3rd run, three weeks before harvest we got hit w heat wave which also brought high humidity. Temps all sudden where mid 90s w rh easy in the 80s and I was powerless to control adequately. So I kept Co2 rolling till chop day to help them deal w the heat. End result was it worked but nothing to be proud of.. but it really ducked cuz it was a bumper crop volume wise.

This run I added ac, was not going to watch another crop all but destroyed. So first 6 weeks I ran it upper 80s cranked the Co2 kept rh as best I Cud close to vpd guidlines so rh in 70sto em and week 7 tampered it down to no co2, temps to mid 70s high 65 low rh down to 30 to 40, last day temp to 70/60... it started barely to purple so MacDonald that temp a few more days next run.

So I really think I was able to get the best of both worlds cpd for growth in first 2/3 flower, screw vpd for last bit of time to get optimal ripening conditions that protected and encouraged nice terpine development.

 

[Huckster79]

Oh ac is just a 6000 BTU window shaker, had to get a lux100 programmable thermostat outlet for late flower as ambient temp was mid 70s so was getting no temp dif once high was set to mid 70s, for $40 it works great to be able to have a daytime n note time temp. In early middleweight wasn't issue as high was mid 80s night time naturally was mid 70s due to ambient temps in mud 70s....


I'm really happy with set up, though I know it will always need tweaks and improvements

 

[Huckster79]

Whoooa quality way better...... just got a lil dry piece, night and day to last run....

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Whoooa quality way better...... just got a lil dry piece, night and day to last run....

Glad to hear it.

 

[Huckster79]

Thank ypu my friend! My last round was worse than i admited even to myself, till this one came in and made me realize how aweful that last one was. deep down i was scared i lost my touch...

Remnants of that last round tho dried n cured i cud toss in the dry ice hash bag couldnt i?

 

[BadGrower]

LOL, that VPD chart everyone follows is saying my VDP is around 18+. Also, VPD has nothing to do with "Quality," though it certainly shaves veg time off of "Quantity."

You stick with your chart though, I'll stick with 15+ years of watching genetics turn out frostier in my own garden.
https://thecleangame.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/jar-of-purple.jpg

I was growing cannabis like this, years before the VPD chart hit the cannabis forum.

Douglas

Hey bro bro, was cruising through the forum and came across ur jar of purp, and just wanted to say that it looks awsome!Big Props. I just started growing and made it through my first harvest. Nothing like urs, but then again i fall in that 80f 60% rH group! Anyways, Im all ears if you got any tips or just plain insight from so many years experience. Grerat job once again.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Hey bro bro, was cruising through the forum and came across ur jar of purp, and just wanted to say that it looks awsome!Big Props. I just started growing and made it through my first harvest. Nothing like urs, but then again i fall in that 80f 60% rH group! Anyways, Im all ears if you got any tips or just plain insight from so many years experience. Grerat job once again.

Been about 15 years since my first grow, welcome to the club.
My advice is to read, read, read, read, read. I've been reading and working to improve for 15 years, worth every minute.

Glad you like the photo

 

[Slipnot]

Welcome DC....Glad you`ve come up with a plan that gives you the best product for your surroundings in less than favorable conditions , but after all.....

Pot`s a weed and adapts well to all surroundings over time in all temps above freezing , and all humidity levels regardless of the fact that the largest plants consecutively on record live in South American jungles nearest the equator with all but 90-100% RH 24/7/365 and elevated temps close to 90 and always within a 10 degree variance during the dark hrs.....that said....

Trichome production is STRICTLY the plant`s "defense mechanism" against heat and ultraviolet radiation , PLUS low RH as in your geographic situation , and yes it definitely affects yield even though you say you have a better end product from stressing the plants out during the flower cycle , and that appears to be so since you claim 15 yrs growing experience....now....

All my rooms ran in the low-mid 80`s for well on 20 yrs with lights off temps again never lower than a 10 degree variable to prevent excess condensation during lights off when the plants get rid of all excess CO2 AND water vapor they took up during the lights on feed and suck juice sequences....that`s why.....

RH levels spike during lights out , and even where you live in an arrid environment, RH levels will be higher than lights on due to that all but unknown factoid on growin dope from all those yrs........and again....

Though you`re happy with what you`ve observed first hand in your environment , I assure you there`s ways to produce every bit as much resin pumping during mid-late flower with higher RH levels to prevent stomata from closing off and slowing transpiration that in turn slows nutrient uptake that in turn slows vegetative and budsite production through end of stretch till end of cycle.....guaranteed....

What I learned over the yrs from different old heads trial and error to prevent yield loss but maintain highest quality was to raise temps last couple-3 weeks strain dependent , and trichome production increased with 50 watts per sq ft.......

During lights off I dropped temps during the same period to start chlorophyll degradation and bring out the inherent "anthocyanin" in every dope cultivar for those "fall colors" outdoor plants left in the ground past first frost always experience....and hey.....

No disrespect intended at all....Thanks for sharing your results , just don`t pound sand and swear it`s the be all end all wayta do things cuz there`s many waysta skin a mule and get quality product with max trich production....anyways....

My 2 cents from doin this shit in production mode over 30 yrs inside and out while never settling for lower quality product but rather the exact opposite.....

Peace....DHF........


Edit: Where I live RH is 70-90% yr round , and I adapted with lungrooms and air exchange twice per minute without CO2 supplements ....

Exactly people will never learn when they get set in there ways. thinking this is the only way to produce weed i just look outside every year and how nature changes follow the rules of logic and mother nature and you be surprised what happens