Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?
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indoor.tomatoes
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negative temperature difference
negative temperature difference
I've read this as well. It's called negative temperature difference and it's effect on the plant (according to Graham Reinders "how to supercharge your garden" book) is that is shortens internode length. I have never had the chance to do a controlled experiment, but it seems plausible. Other ways to keep down internode length include adaquate light reaching all the plants leaves and by agitating the plant with a fan. Reinders doesn't explain why neg temp diff works. (oh btw temp diff is only 'a few degrees' between night and day). give a try in a controlled setting....one room hotter during day than night, on cooler and one the same...see what happens. anyone ever experimented with this...any effective method of shortening internode length is desireable indoors.
negative temperature difference
-VT- said:
I've read this as well. It's called negative temperature difference and it's effect on the plant (according to Graham Reinders "how to supercharge your garden" book) is that is shortens internode length. I have never had the chance to do a controlled experiment, but it seems plausible. Other ways to keep down internode length include adaquate light reaching all the plants leaves and by agitating the plant with a fan. Reinders doesn't explain why neg temp diff works. (oh btw temp diff is only 'a few degrees' between night and day). give a try in a controlled setting....one room hotter during day than night, on cooler and one the same...see what happens. anyone ever experimented with this...any effective method of shortening internode length is desireable indoors.
indoor.tomatoes said:
I prefer the method you mentioned of providing adequate light. I've never heard of this heating things up at night idea before. There is a belief and practice for plants in flower that you want to do the opposite and have a 20 degree difference and a low rh during lights out in flower to encourage resin production since the plant produces resin to insulate against low temps and humidity amoung other reasons. If one is worrying about internode length though, that's really more of a factor of veg since plants don't grow much in flower after the stretch phase (first 2 -3 weeks of flower).
In veg I could see where it might work since during the veg season it's not unheard of for night time temps to be very warm and on occassion even warmer then it was during the day. Therefore the plant may indeed have evolved a response to such conditions. My gut reaction is it's a bad idea. The only effect I can imagine it having is a mild form of heat stress which may not be enough to really harm the plant but perhaps slow growth as it diverts energy to cope with the stress. Another thing that occurs to me is that if it were true then people who veg with a 24/0 cycle should also report short internodal spacing, since there temps also stay high around the clock. Yet I've never heard anyone who used 24/0 for veg report this as a benefit. So I'm inclined to believe that there is no solid evidence such a practice would work better then any other ways to control height. What works well for me is vegging with flouros at slightly below ideal temps (72 - 73 F) with a light feeding regimne. This keeps them at about 18" after a two months of veg. I then transplant, put it under the same light for flower but on 18-6 (1000W HID) feed it agressively to build up nutrients for 2 weeks (since it was fed light during the time under the flouros) and to bring it up to about 2 feet. Flower it and feed like any other plant in flower. Usually stretch after that much veg time is only about a foot or less especially if the plant was also topped/trained for a lower profile. So you end up with a 3 foot plant flowering under a 1000W HID which has enough penetration power that with a 3 foot plant it'll have good light top to bottom, provided of course your grow space isn't too crowded.
dondeago said:
Well I'm no electrician but I typed E40 screw socket into Google and among other things I found several sites that say E39 bulbs (which most HID bulbs are) will work in E40 sockets but an E40 bulb will not work in an E39 socket.
I don't know if that applies to CFL's though, just HIDs from what I've seen. Sounds like your building a light set up, which is fine if you know what you are doing. However if you're piecing together stuff out of old parts and you don't know if those parts go together or not then I strongly encourage you to either buy your lights or hire a trained electrician that knows what is what. Electricity is not to be played with there's to great a risk one might electricute themselves and/or too great a risk for the homemade device to cause an electrical fire.
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help!!!
This obv. is a male right?
and this is a female right?
Well they are from the same plant! Did she hermied? Sigh sigh....
She is a Mango haze, germed the 15th of july, straight in in 12/12 from seed. She didn't show any ball till today. I cannot check her daily since she isn't mine (sob), but the last week i SWEAR there wasn't that balls...
so did she just hermied? why :'( ?
or maybe she WAS a male, and the second photo isn't a female flower?
This obv. is a male right?
and this is a female right?
Well they are from the same plant! Did she hermied? Sigh sigh....
She is a Mango haze, germed the 15th of july, straight in in 12/12 from seed. She didn't show any ball till today. I cannot check her daily since she isn't mine (sob), but the last week i SWEAR there wasn't that balls...
so did she just hermied? why :'( ?
or maybe she WAS a male, and the second photo isn't a female flower?
gramsci.antonio said:help!!!
This obv. is a male right?
and this is a female right?
Well they are from the same plant! Did she hermied? Sigh sigh....
She is a Mango haze, germed the 15th of july, straight in in 12/12 from seed. She didn't show any ball till today. I cannot check her daily since she isn't mine (sob), but the last week i SWEAR there wasn't that balls...
so did she just hermied? why :'( ?
or maybe she WAS a male, and the second photo isn't a female flower?
I'm inclined to go with your second conclusion. The first pic is male pre-flowers, no doubt about it. The second picture looks more like new growth rather then female pre-flowers. When new growth is very small it can look like female pre-flowers like it sort of does in that pic but it isn't pre-flowers.
Now as for what causes hermies? Well pretty much any form of stress, too much heat, too cold, too much water, not enough, ph imbalance, etc. How much stress depends on the plant, some plants are more resistant to stress then others. Once the plant reaches the triggering point within that stress it will hermie. Some say the hermie trait was bred into plants accidentally when the Dutch were first trying to develope feminized seed. Personally I don't buy that. The way I see it, it's an evolutionary defense mechanism designed to help insure a strain will survive in a place when fate prevents any pollination from taking place (a bad storm wipes out most of a patch of wild plants and only a few unpollenated females survive). I conclude this from the fact that most plants even in a good environment will hermie if you grow them past their ideal harvest point. Whatever the case, where ever hermies came from it's a recessed trait triggered by some environmental condition so as long as you strive for a stress free environment you shouldn't have much trouble with plants going hermie.
Actually after taking a second look something looks to be developing on the bottom right side of that 2nd picture but it's blurry so I can't tell but it could be a group of balls forming.
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Similar Situation
Similar Situation
HempKat i read what you were saying about hermies and it hit home for me because i just had a similar problem. I had 5 plants: 2 males, 2 females, and one undefined tunted mo fo that just won't give up! I cut down the males, and saved the females. The only problem was that one of the females was in too small of a pot and in order to size up i had to transplant into another pot.
Before...
After...
Before the after pic i did let her dry out a bit before transplanting, then when i tried to trans nutes she got a little too wet. But in either case she hermied on those second set of leaves below the top flower. Is it a pretty good guess that it was the stres of the transplantation that did it?
Either way, i trimmed the balls out very carefully as to not pop them open and to not cut the calyx. Let me know what you think? i gotta hit the work house so i'll check back when i can...
Peace.
Similar Situation
HempKat i read what you were saying about hermies and it hit home for me because i just had a similar problem. I had 5 plants: 2 males, 2 females, and one undefined tunted mo fo that just won't give up! I cut down the males, and saved the females. The only problem was that one of the females was in too small of a pot and in order to size up i had to transplant into another pot.
Before...
After...
Before the after pic i did let her dry out a bit before transplanting, then when i tried to trans nutes she got a little too wet. But in either case she hermied on those second set of leaves below the top flower. Is it a pretty good guess that it was the stres of the transplantation that did it?
Either way, i trimmed the balls out very carefully as to not pop them open and to not cut the calyx. Let me know what you think? i gotta hit the work house so i'll check back when i can...
Peace.
retawgnob said:HempKat i read what you were saying about hermies and it hit home for me because i just had a similar problem. I had 5 plants: 2 males, 2 females, and one undefined tunted mo fo that just won't give up! I cut down the males, and saved the females. The only problem was that one of the females was in too small of a pot and in order to size up i had to transplant into another pot.
Before...
After...
Before the after pic i did let her dry out a bit before transplanting, then when i tried to trans nutes she got a little too wet. But in either case she hermied on those second set of leaves below the top flower. Is it a pretty good guess that it was the stres of the transplantation that did it?
Either way, i trimmed the balls out very carefully as to not pop them open and to not cut the calyx. Let me know what you think? i gotta hit the work house so i'll check back when i can...
Peace.
Well not to be the bearer of bad news but if you're growing that outdoors like it looks you're pretty late in the season and you'll be lucky to yield a joint or two worth of smoke from a plant that small. A good outdoor plant should be in at least a 5 gallon bucket or even better directly into good soil that is many feet deep. Indoors you can only work with the space you have but to get a good small plant indoors should be at least 2 feet big and should be that tall when you start flower. You should end up with a 3 to 4 foot plant that will yield 2 to 4 ounces depending on the strength of your light. Given that it takes a 2 to 3 month investment to go to harvest with a plant, it's hardly worth the trouble if you don't get at least a couple of ounces.
retawgnob said:
Describe what you're doing step by step and include when you start. Unless that is a lowryder which never gets above about 12 inches then my guess is you are putting them out too late and/or they're not getting enough direct sunshine.
Also when I say they should be in 5 gallon pots, I mean they should be transplanted to 5 gallon pots just before flower which outdoors would be late July or early august. They should be going out in late April early May and hopefully with a bit of a head start for a couple of weeks under lights indoors. At that point they should be in one gallon pots. Then about mid June transplant up to a 3 gallon pot and then again to the 5 gallon in early August. Unless the strain is known to be small the plant should get at least 4 to 5 feet tall if not then either you're doing something wrong or the genetics are low quality. Outdoors when done right and straight into the ground it's nothing for a sativa to hit anywhere from 9 to 15 feet and if allowed they can go even bigger. Indicas are usually smaller but outdoors they can get up to 6 feet or maybe a little more. When I said a couple of ounces per plant I was talking indoor yields, a good outdoor plant can yield multiple pounds although you need a good spot and perfect conditions I'd say a decent average for an outdoor plant would be at least half a pound once dried and cured.
Word. Thanks man, i was durious ho wyou might re-pot in conjunction with flowering time and grow span. I like how you start them indoors in small pots then allow them to grow more and more as they enjoy their new outdoor home. I have a grow diary titled " Bag Seeds Gone Bueno" if you would like to read what i've done so far.
That being said, yes they are bag seed and a side from probably starting them too late i also don't know the genetics. So if you have any more info or advice i would to hear it. Please comment here or on my grow diary and i will keep in touch. I am more than excepting to others ideas and experiences, perticularly b/c i have some but not nearly enough. You can never have to much education.
Thanks again. Peace.
That being said, yes they are bag seed and a side from probably starting them too late i also don't know the genetics. So if you have any more info or advice i would to hear it. Please comment here or on my grow diary and i will keep in touch. I am more than excepting to others ideas and experiences, perticularly b/c i have some but not nearly enough. You can never have to much education.
Thanks again. Peace.
retawgnob said:
I replied to you over in your thread
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1921435&postcount=4
J
Joe Budden
BUMP 
Let me just put out here this resource, pretty much everything I know or ever learned about the plant from growing it, has also been learned and well documented by others who came before me. In fact when I came here not all that long ago (4-5 years and by here I mean online canna sites in general and not just this site.) I didn't realize what I knew. I just did things that were taught to me and it all seemed to work out well. Anyway coming indoors is a bit different and I was kind of lost in some ways. At that time I was mostly at OverGrow which is now gone. One of the greatest features of that site was it's growFAQ that covered every aspect of growing your own and many aspects of growing in general. From start to finish and how to build what you need to get there. That's the well documented resource I mentioned and yet it's not hard to understand and for the most part each item is brief and too the point. I still use it today because there is just too many ways to do this for someone to keep on top of everything. :smile:
I share all this to say that here is a link to that resource and near as I can tell it is exactly as it was when I discovered it 4 or 5 years ago. I encourage any new grower reading this to bookmark this link so you have a resource that is always there for you as long as the internet and this site are running and you have an internet connection of course.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/GrowFAQ Basic Topics.htm
Chances are good that whatever you need to know is in there and it is likely that whatever answer I give you would be pretty much the same.
I share all this to say that here is a link to that resource and near as I can tell it is exactly as it was when I discovered it 4 or 5 years ago. I encourage any new grower reading this to bookmark this link so you have a resource that is always there for you as long as the internet and this site are running and you have an internet connection of course.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/GrowFAQ Basic Topics.htm
Chances are good that whatever you need to know is in there and it is likely that whatever answer I give you would be pretty much the same.
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J
Joe Budden
Well HempKat you are doing a great job helping people over here on ic, I'm sure this thread has and will continue to help hundreds.
May I suggest that everyone copies all the info on that link you posted. I have been reading that FAQ for years now and it's packed with informtion, Overgrow was a great site and its where I started out, it gave me a wrath of information.
RIP OVERGROW
May I suggest that everyone copies all the info on that link you posted. I have been reading that FAQ for years now and it's packed with informtion, Overgrow was a great site and its where I started out, it gave me a wrath of information.
RIP OVERGROW
S_a_H said:
If a plant is old enough, mature enough, it'll show what is called pre-flowers even under 18/6 lighting. Now if you are trying to induce flowering early then 14/10 probably won't do it for you. There might be some strains that are perhaps more sensitive to changes in the light/dark periods that might flower under 14/10 but for the most part you really need to go 12/12 to induce flowering.
S_a_H said:
Yeah that's one definition, aka alternating nodes. The other popular definition being the emergence of pre-flowers. If your plant is showing alternating nodes under 18/6 it's best in my opinion to wait for the pre-flowers which usually show up about a week or two after alternating nodes. Unless of course you feel they're ready to flower and you just want to identify sex so you can pull any males.
The reason I say this is that switching to 12/12 early to sex a plant and then switching back to veg is going to add several weeks time to your grow. So much so that it's as good or better to just wait and let things happen naturally.
