Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?

[HempKat]

Hello HempKat, I have run into something strange during my first grow. I am 6 weeks into growing 2 plants of Oasis strain in Sta-green soil w/ perlite, Liquid Karma & Miracle grow, in 12 inch pots, and 400w MH lights. The grow area is 3x2x8. It seemed like the plants weren't growing all that fast, the leaves were curling down & the bottom leaves where turning a pale yellow with the MH lights. I started using purchased distilled water b/c I thought it could be a pH issue (measured b/t 6.1-6.3). Before I left, I put them on 2 40w 4 ft fluoro lights b/c I was a little worried about leaving them unsupervised w/ the MH Light. When I returned 5 days later, them seemed to have doubled is size and returned to nice dark green color. When I returned, I placed them back on the MH lights and the growth seemed to halt and the the very tips of 2 leaves where yellow.

Do you recommend that I keep using the fluoro's or go back to the MH light. I thought that the MH lights were supposed to have better growth. What do you think?

Also, can Tiger Bloom be used by itself or does it need to be used with Big Bloom?

Thanks so much for the help. Here is the "before and after" pic

That's tough to call, I suspect you were getting different signals at different times and you're making a connection out of it that shouldn't be. The pale yellow before the fluoros was likely a mild deficiency setting in. I'm guessing you feed them prior to being gone for 5 days and if so that probably is why they looked healthier upon your return. The main reason I say this is when one has a deficiency usually it's the lower leaves that will show it first. The yellow at the tips you are seeing now, sounds more like a slight nutrient burn which if you gave them a little extra because you were going to be gone for a few days, that may be why.

The lack of growth is tricky because nothing you've said really explains it and it could be the result of a number of things. If you keep your MH too far away from the plant (more then a foot is too far) then they may not be getting enough light, however this should also make them stretch too much trying to reach the light. If you water too frequently that can stunt growth as the plants need the soil to dry out some to encourage healthy root developement. If that were the case, then the time you were away might have allowed them to dry out a bit more. You may not be feeding them enough. I say this because at 6 weeks it's a bit odd to have a deficiency if they're on a regular feeding schedule. Also six weeks is a fair bit of time in a 12" pot they may be getting a bit root bound although the growth above the soil doesn't seem enough for it to be rootbound.

The plants in the lower pictures look pretty healthy and happy so if that's how they look now, you likely had a deficency with the paling leaves that has now corrected itself. I'd leave them under the MH with the light about a foot above the plants. Remember, 99% of the time if a leaf changes in appearence because of something going on in the plant, it won't change back, always look to newer growth for indications that the problem has been resolved.

As for the Fox Farm nutrients I'm not too familiar with them, both are flowering ferts to my understanding so you wouldn't really want to be using them until you go 12/12. I googled Tiger Bloom and what I read sounds like it could be used by itself but from what I've seen on canna sites, most use it with the Big Bloom. I seem to recall hearing from someone that the Tiger Bloom is the main fert and Big Bloom is a enhancer or supplement. I'm not sure though so I'd encourage you to check with someone more familiar with Fox Farm products. You shouldn't have a problem finding someone, tons of people use Fox Farm products.

 

[Guest]

Thanks a lot HK, the world needs more people like you giving advice to beginners.

 

[HempKat]

Thanks a lot HK, the world needs more people like you giving advice to beginners.

Well thanks for the compliment. I don't know if the world could handle more of me though?

You seem to be doing okay judging by the pics, just be careful you don't love your plants to death. One of the most common beginner mistakes is that being new they are fascinated and fuss over and worry about and react to the least little thing that seems out of order and they end up doing too much and harm their plants. Like overwatering, overfertalizing, too much light, too close to light, etc. Always they're trying to make things better. The best thing to do is to learn your plant, watch it, do a basic grow, nothing fancy and see what it does and find out why it does those things. In the end your best teacher will be your plants if you do that. Something that can help to get tuned into your plants is keep a daily log. Monitor temps, humidity, growth things like that and make note of unusual things you notice.

 

[Guest]

HempKat, thanks for doing this, man. I'm in the process of setting up my grow room and have a couple of questions. I will be growing in a 2.25'd X 7.5'w X 8'h closet. I originally bought a 600w HPS/MH conversion lamp with an air coolable reflector for the grow and a 200w Hydrofarm CFL for the seedling stage. After holding the 600w in the center of the closet at about 4' high, I noticed that the light's footprint began to lose intensity about 2' from each of the left and right baseboards. So I bought a 400w HPS/MH and I'm going to locate the 600w offset to the right so that it covers to the right baseboard and locate the 400w on the left side of the closet (both lights have digital ballasts).

I knew I was going to have to keep the heat from building up even before I had to buy the 400w. Both fixtures are 6" air coolable with glass and the 400w is even double paned. My intensions are, at this point to connect the two hoods together with ducting, leave the intake flange on the first one open to the grow room environment, vent air through both and exhaust out to atmosphere (attic). Vent fan is a 440cfm Eco Fan and cubic feet of grow room is 135. To save you from getting out the calculator, at max rpm the fan can change the air in the room about 3 times a minute. I also bought a solid state fan speed controller and will be able to throttle the fan up and down in order to finer control the temp.

Finally, my question (actually two). Do you think I will be able to control the heat with that setup? Ambient home temp stays around 75 during the summer and about 68-72 in the winter. I will have four 8" light proof passive intake vents about a foot off the floor located around the bottom of the closet in the front and back walls.

Second question, if I could. Will the 200w CFL bo OK for the sprout/seedling stage of growth as long as I keep it about 12" off the tops of the seedlings it does generat some heat, not much but then I don't know how much is acceptable before plants begin to suffer? I plan to put the seedlings in a propagation tray with a tall dome cover on it to keep them from drying out.

Thanks

I needed to edit this to put in the following info. I also have a Can 33 carbon filter with a Can RS6 fan rated at 270 cfm I was going to use to scrub the air in the room without exhausting it letting the larger output fan do both when it became necessary. So that fan is also available to be used to exhaust to atmoshpere if I need to. I just didn't want to pull air through the filter until odor became an issue.

 

[HempKat]

HempKat, thanks for doing this, man. I'm in the process of setting up my grow room and have a couple of questions. I will be growing in a 2.25'd X 7.5'w X 8'h closet. I originally bought a 600w HPS/MH conversion lamp with an air coolable reflector for the grow and a 200w Hydrofarm CFL for the seedling stage. After holding the 600w in the center of the closet at about 4' high, I noticed that the light's footprint began to lose intensity about 2' from each of the left and right baseboards. So I bought a 400w HPS/MH and I'm going to locate the 600w offset to the right so that it covers to the right baseboard and locate the 400w on the left side of the closet (both lights have digital ballasts).

I knew I was going to have to keep the heat from building up even before I had to buy the 400w. Both fixtures are 6" air coolable with glass and the 400w is even double paned. My intensions are, at this point to connect the two hoods together with ducting, leave the intake flange on the first one open to the grow room environment, vent air through both and exhaust out to atmosphere (attic). Vent fan is a 440cfm Eco Fan and cubic feet of grow room is 135. To save you from getting out the calculator, at max rpm the fan can change the air in the room about 3 times a minute. I also bought a solid state fan speed controller and will be able to throttle the fan up and down in order to finer control the temp.

Finally, my question (actually two). Do you think I will be able to control the heat with that setup? Ambient home temp stays around 75 during the summer and about 68-72 in the winter. I will have four 8" light proof passive intake vents about a foot off the floor located around the bottom of the closet in the front and back walls.

Second question, if I could. Will the 200w CFL bo OK for the sprout/seedling stage of growth as long as I keep it about 12" off the tops of the seedlings it does generat some heat, not much but then I don't know how much is acceptable before plants begin to suffer? I plan to put the seedlings in a propagation tray with a tall dome cover on it to keep them from drying out.

Thanks

I needed to edit this to put in the following info. I also have a Can 33 carbon filter with a Can RS6 fan rated at 270 cfm I was going to use to scrub the air in the room without exhausting it letting the larger output fan do both when it became necessary. So that fan is also available to be used to exhaust to atmoshpere if I need to. I just didn't want to pull air through the filter until odor became an issue.

Okay well first off on the chainning together of the two lights is fine, although using fairly warm growroom air will cut down on it's efficency compared to using cooler air from outside or at least outside the growroom. The real trick is come flower time, all the air being drawn thru the light will need to be carbon scrubbed as well as the air from the regular exhaust. This is doable but trickier especially if one fan is more powerful then the other. That's why if it can be done, it's better to have the path of air for cooling the light to be completely closed to the growroom (meaning the time the air cooling the light is in the grow room it's contained within the tubing or the light itself). That way you never have to worry about scrubbing that air since it doesn't pull anything but heat from the room.

The fan that does 3 room changes per minute is plenty strong enough for co2 exchange (minimum of 1 room change every 5 minutes). It should also be strong enough if at the same time the lights are being air cooled although you'll likely have to run it at it's higher settings. Now without the lights cooled it's likely not enough, to achieve sufficient cooling in absence of AC you need about 5 room changes per minute.

The foot print, keep in mind, you'll need some space for the plants to grow into and space for you to be able to get in there and tend to them. So not every inch needs to necessarily be covered. I figure it like this. They say 50W per square foot is optimal for HIDs. The average bush style plant is going to use about 2 square feet of horizontal space, so using that as a guide I figure 100W per plant which with a 600W means 6 plants or 12 square feet. You have close to 17 square feet leaving an excess of 2.5 square feet on either side if you center the plants under the light. Now if you want to flower more then 6 plants at a time you'll want more light. You can do more plants with the one light but then each plant will need to be smaller, such as you get when growing SOG style. Typically though if you change the number of plants but don't change the strength of the light, the overall yield will stay about the same but the per plant yield will increase or decrease depending on if you have more plants or less. Just to give you an idea, 6 full size bush plants grown in a space with that height could yield around two pounds dried cured bud. I did 6 plants in a similar sized space about 2 years ago and I yielded about 1.75 lbs. I consider myself to be a heavy smoker yet 1.75 pounds will hold me about a year. So one crop of 6 plants per year could potentially supply a heavy smoker. Of course it's very doable to have 4 to 6 crops a year if you have new plants ready to go into flower by the time you harvest. So you may not need a second light.

The 200W CFL is probably fine but I think 12" is a bit much half of that or even a third of that might be enough distance. To gauge hold your hand under the light such that it is flat and at the height of the plants with the back side of your hand facing the light. Hold it there for a few minutes, if the back of your hand doesn't get uncomfortably warm it's not too close. Or use a thermometer with a probe (most indoor/outdoor thermometers have a seperate probe for getting the outside temp) and place the probe at the height of the tallest plant. Then adjust the light to where that tempurature is between 75 to 78 degrees. If that ends up being 6 inches or more you'll likely need some cooling in there, which there should be anyway since you need ventilation and co2 exchange. One thing to keep in mind with a 200W CFL you'll not get much height from them, maybe 6 inches or so. Using the rule that says plants typically triple in height in flower will mean your plants will be around 18" which is a waste of that 8 foot of vertical space you have. So 200W is fine to start plants but if you want to have them ready to flower when they come from there you'll need more light in there to get them to the height you want.

Now on the air cooled lights with the glass. One thing people forget to think about with those is they need to be cleaned regularly. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that even with clean glass you lose a little efficiency but it will get even lower as it gets dirty, so at least once a week you should clean them inside and outside. I would also remove that 2nd peice of glass and you should put some sort of filter (maybe convert a pair of stockings or panty hose) over the intake to the air cooled lights. This is to help cut down on dirt and dust dirtying up your stuff on the inside of the light. Don't make the filter too dense though so you don't restrict airflow too much.

If you have the 400W and 600W ballasts already and are okay with the idea of a six plant harvest then I would use the 600W for flowering, the 200W CFL I would use for clones and seedlings in their first 2 weeks and then switch to the 400W to veg them out to be ready for the flower room.

 

[Guest]

Vegging Time

Vegging Time

Hello HK, I have 2 questions for you. Do you consider vegging time starting at the moment of germination or until the first set of fan leaves appear? I get confused about that and it is throwing me off by a couple of weeks.

The other question that I have is if it will be alright to use 15-30-15 nutes (Miracle Grow) during veg growth? I thought that I was using 20-20-20, but when I just looked at the package I realized that it said 15-30-15. I am waiting a some proper nutes to come in the mail, they haven't arrived yet.

As always, thanks so much for your time and knowledge!

 

[Guest]

HempKat, thanks for doing this, man. I'm in the process of setting up my grow room and have a couple of questions. I will be growing in a 2.25'd X 7.5'w X 8'h closet. I originally bought a 600w HPS/MH conversion lamp with an air coolable reflector for the grow and a 200w Hydrofarm CFL for the seedling stage. After holding the 600w in the center of the closet at about 4' high, I noticed that the light's footprint began to lose intensity about 2' from each of the left and right baseboards. So I bought a 400w HPS/MH and I'm going to locate the 600w offset to the right so that it covers to the right baseboard and locate the 400w on the left side of the closet (both lights have digital ballasts).

I knew I was going to have to keep the heat from building up even before I had to buy the 400w. Both fixtures are 6" air coolable with glass and the 400w is even double paned. My intensions are, at this point to connect the two hoods together with ducting, leave the intake flange on the first one open to the grow room environment, vent air through both and exhaust out to atmosphere (attic). Vent fan is a 440cfm Eco Fan and cubic feet of grow room is 135. To save you from getting out the calculator, at max rpm the fan can change the air in the room about 3 times a minute. I also bought a solid state fan speed controller and will be able to throttle the fan up and down in order to finer control the temp.

Finally, my question (actually two). Do you think I will be able to control the heat with that setup? Ambient home temp stays around 75 during the summer and about 68-72 in the winter. I will have four 8" light proof passive intake vents about a foot off the floor located around the bottom of the closet in the front and back walls.

Second question, if I could. Will the 200w CFL bo OK for the sprout/seedling stage of growth as long as I keep it about 12" off the tops of the seedlings it does generat some heat, not much but then I don't know how much is acceptable before plants begin to suffer? I plan to put the seedlings in a propagation tray with a tall dome cover on it to keep them from drying out.

Thanks

I needed to edit this to put in the following info. I also have a Can 33 carbon filter with a Can RS6 fan rated at 270 cfm I was going to use to scrub the air in the room without exhausting it letting the larger output fan do both when it became necessary. So that fan is also available to be used to exhaust to atmoshpere if I need to. I just didn't want to pull air through the filter until odor became an issue.

Thanks for helping me with this earlier yesterday HempKat. I think this is what I've decided to do, unless of course, you find something wrong with my logic. If you do, feel free to correct me, I'm old enough to know how to take constructive criticism.

I think I've decided to go with a closed system. I'll use the smaller Can Fan (265 cfm) to exhaust the air in the grow closet back into the office using filtered passive intakes also located in the office. When odor becomes a problem, I'll hook that fan to the filter and scrub the air and still exhaust it into the office/extra bedroom where the closet is located. I'll also pull air through an intake with duct hooked to it from the office, through the lights and exhaust back into the office, using that (closed system, no air pulled from grow closet) air to only cool the ligts. I'll buy a window a/c unit and open the exhaust on it so it will exhaust the office air to the outside while pulling in fresh air with CO2 from the outside. When and if I ever decide to hook up a CO2 system to the closet, this system should also help me keep CO2 levels where they need to be and I'll close the exhaust on the a/c to have it just recirculate air in the office. Sort of a closed environment within a closed environment.

I am going to wire the timer to a receptacle so that both lights and the can fan come on together (timer's rated at 1750W, so I won't even be close to max on it). I'm also going to wire a fan speed controller to the fan so that I can adjust the temp where it needs to be. When the temp in the office stabilizes at a particular setting on the a/c and I find the proper fan speed setting, then whenever the lights come on, there shouldn't need to be any further adjusting.

By using the window a/c I also keep humidity low. I know to keep the passive air intakes for circulation in the grow closet at top of plant pot height and exhaust high. I think this sounds like the best way to have control over temps. No sound or odor to the rest of the house and my office door is always locked.

 

[Deft]

So, I have a seedling that is wicked stretched out, to the point where it wants to fall over. I have two 23w CFLs as close to them as I think I can get them without burning it. Its staked up since it was falling over but I still worry about it, is there anythin else I can do? It is just now pokin gout its second set of true leaves even though its not done at all with the first set, its about 3" tall and the leaves are only about as wide as a nickle at the fatest part.

 

[HempKat]

Hello HK, I have 2 questions for you. Do you consider vegging time starting at the moment of germination or until the first set of fan leaves appear? I get confused about that and it is throwing me off by a couple of weeks.

The other question that I have is if it will be alright to use 15-30-15 nutes (Miracle Grow) during veg growth? I thought that I was using 20-20-20, but when I just looked at the package I realized that it said 15-30-15. I am waiting a some proper nutes to come in the mail, they haven't arrived yet.

As always, thanks so much for your time and knowledge!

Well it's not really a good formula (15-30-15) but it can be used although not for veg. For veg if going chemical you want something that's like 30-10-10. The formula you have should work okay in flower but really for flower you want something that's 10-30-20. The only chem fert I know with that ratio is a product line from Peters called Jack's Classic.

As for counting veg time. I always go from the moment the seeds break soil. But I veg usually for at least 8 weeks so timing isn't that critical. Some go less then 8 weeks, usually flipping them to 12/12 based on height more then anything else. If you veg for say 4 weeks then I'd say go from when the first set of leaves appear. The thing is, there is no real set time to veg, hell some folks skip veg all together and just go straight to 12/12 although I wouldn't encourage that. Flowering right away like that is only good for certain situations and it's better left to people who are fairly experienced with growing normally. The longer you veg the bigger the plant will be at harvest. Also the longer you veg, the less the plant will stretch when you do go to flower.

 

[HempKat]

Thanks for helping me with this earlier yesterday HempKat. I think this is what I've decided to do, unless of course, you find something wrong with my logic. If you do, feel free to correct me, I'm old enough to know how to take constructive criticism.

I think I've decided to go with a closed system. I'll use the smaller Can Fan (265 cfm) to exhaust the air in the grow closet back into the office using filtered passive intakes also located in the office. When odor becomes a problem, I'll hook that fan to the filter and scrub the air and still exhaust it into the office/extra bedroom where the closet is located. I'll also pull air through an intake with duct hooked to it from the office, through the lights and exhaust back into the office, using that (closed system, no air pulled from grow closet) air to only cool the ligts. I'll buy a window a/c unit and open the exhaust on it so it will exhaust the office air to the outside while pulling in fresh air with CO2 from the outside. When and if I ever decide to hook up a CO2 system to the closet, this system should also help me keep CO2 levels where they need to be and I'll close the exhaust on the a/c to have it just recirculate air in the office. Sort of a closed environment within a closed environment.

I am going to wire the timer to a receptacle so that both lights and the can fan come on together (timer's rated at 1750W, so I won't even be close to max on it). I'm also going to wire a fan speed controller to the fan so that I can adjust the temp where it needs to be. When the temp in the office stabilizes at a particular setting on the a/c and I find the proper fan speed setting, then whenever the lights come on, there shouldn't need to be any further adjusting.

By using the window a/c I also keep humidity low. I know to keep the passive air intakes for circulation in the grow closet at top of plant pot height and exhaust high. I think this sounds like the best way to have control over temps. No sound or odor to the rest of the house and my office door is always locked.

Sounds like it should work although getting to a setting where it will always be okay will be tricky since you'll be pulling in fresh air from outside. The outside temps will effect how well or poorly that setting will work. All in all it sounds very similar to my set up except I don't have variable speed control on my fans. No biggie though as I need them at full strength usually and when that's too much I can usually cut one off to get to the temps I want.

I don't know if this will make a difference but I've never heard of someone making their intake at the top of plant level. Most people have the intakes at ground level because that's where the coolest air is since heat rises and cool air falls. Having it at the bottom allows the cool air to come in and rise up thru the plants as it is drawn by the exhaust. This helps to keep the whole plant at a good temp. Also having the fresh air come in higher means it's closer to the exhaust and therefore will get pulled out faster cutting down how much it might cool the space.

 

[HempKat]

So, I have a seedling that is wicked stretched out, to the point where it wants to fall over. I have two 23w CFLs as close to them as I think I can get them without burning it. Its staked up since it was falling over but I still worry about it, is there anythin else I can do? It is just now pokin gout its second set of true leaves even though its not done at all with the first set, its about 3" tall and the leaves are only about as wide as a nickle at the fatest part.

That happens to lots of folks unfortunately because at first you don't want the light too strong so many keep the lights a little further away at first and then work the lights closer day by day until they get it as close as possible. For those CFL's you should be able to get them within 2 to 3 inches of the plants.

Unfortunately there's not much you can do but stake them up which you've already done. You should also have a fan circulating the air with a gentle breeze. Not too much but enough to where you can see the leaves moving slightly. This should help stimulate the plant into growing a thicker stalk. Sounds like they're basically okay and the stalks should start getting thicker soon anyway. Another thing you can do to help eliminate some of that stretch is when you transplant put it a little deeper in the new pot and then fill the dirt in such that the stretched area is buried. That of course is provided you're working with soil.

 

[Deft]

They are around 2-3 inches! Know anywhere physical where I can get a totaly silent fan? I tried puting a rheostat on a small one once but it didnt work so well. I realy dont know why this one is streching so much the lights have been pretty close its whole life.

 

[HempKat]

They are around 2-3 inches! Know anywhere physical where I can get a totaly silent fan? I tried puting a rheostat on a small one once but it didnt work so well. I realy dont know why this one is streching so much the lights have been pretty close its whole life.

Some strains are just taller then other and tend to be more stretched out. This is especially true of strains with a strong sativa in fluence and of course pure sativas.

As for fans, well for what I'm talking about, if you only have a couple of plants a small desk or exen computer case fan can do the trick and they're pretty quiet if you shop around and get the better made ones.

 

[Deft]

I could just take the one out of my tower thats just hanging above the dual video cards, its not doing much lol. And they are sativa dom, but I poped 3 and got only one thats skinny and tall so far, wierd.

 

[Guest]

If I am starting seedlings in rapid rooters, and putting them directly into bubblers, how much flora nova per gallon should I use to start?

The directions says 1/2 teaspoon/gal and I have used this for clones before.

Is it safe to start 1/2 teaspoon/gal for seedlings too?

 

[HempKat]

I could just take the one out of my tower thats just hanging above the dual video cards, its not doing much lol. And they are sativa dom, but I poped 3 and got only one thats skinny and tall so far, wierd.

That could work but be sure not to put your computer at risk. The best kind to use in my opinion are the bigger ones which are 120mm they can be found at most any computer store for around 5 to 10 dollars US. Now you have to be able to wire it up for use which means getting a 12V adapter and wiring the fan so you can plug it in the wall and run it. So in the long run a small desktop fan which you can find at most any superstore like Walmart should have something suitable for around 5 to 10 dollars US also and they'll already be set up to plug into the wall.

As for that one it could be a couple of factors, for instance it could be a different phenotype of the same strain (varient or mutation) that grows taller or faster. It could be that one was a bit further from the lights then others and that's why it stretched. It could be a male, male plants often grow faster and taller )but not always so don't write it off yet). It could be that something unique in that one plants pot is making it grow a bit better. I wouldn't worry too much about it. In the scheme of things 3 inches is not that tall. It's natural for new growers to over worry about their plants, fretting over every little thing that seems out of order, trying to have a perfect plant. Plants aren't perfect though and sometimes grow ways we don't want to. If it keeps stretching alot then worry but if it holds where it's at and thickens up, then I wouldn't worry.

 

[HempKat]

If I am starting seedlings in rapid rooters, and putting them directly into bubblers, how much flora nova per gallon should I use to start?

The directions says 1/2 teaspoon/gal and I have used this for clones before.

Is it safe to start 1/2 teaspoon/gal for seedlings too?

Probably not, even though clones in a sense are babies, they're as fully mature as the mother plant they came from. As such they often require a feeding that's more mature.

To be honest I'm not sure though. I've used rapid rooters but not for seeds, although I've heard of people who have. I also grow in soil so when you start talking bubblers I am not sure what applies. Sorry.

 

[Guest]

I don't know if this will make a difference but I've never heard of someone making their intake at the top of plant level. Most people have the intakes at ground level because that's where the coolest air is since heat rises and cool air falls. Having it at the bottom allows the cool air to come in and rise up thru the plants as it is drawn by the exhaust. This helps to keep the whole plant at a good temp. Also having the fresh air come in higher means it's closer to the exhaust and therefore will get pulled out faster cutting down how much it might cool the space.

Thanks HK, wondered where you went - thought maybe we, who know nothing, were wearing your ass out and you just gave up. Back to my post, to clarify, in my post I said I was going to put the passive intakes at "plant pot level, meaning that the air will hit just at the top edge of the nursery pots. Just finished a week of working on the closet and I have all intakes and exhausts installed. The bottoms of the passive intakes are located 10" off the floor. I wanted them at the tops of the pots the plants are in so that the air would hit the plants and not the plastic. My exhaust for these intakes is located 12" from the ceiling but the filter that the exhaust air enters first is located at the back wall of the closet strapped to the ceiling - figured I couldn't get any higher than that, hehe. gonna install the window a/c tomorrow (oops, later today)- went with a Kenmoore 10k energy saver.

One question, if you don't mind sir. I tried over the last two weeks to germinate some bag seed and had no success. Used the paper towel method and finally threw them away after a week of nothing. My thoughts are that it was just immature seed and never would have germinated. The seeds were saved from some lousy schwag that I got a while back. I bought from Amsterdam 20 White Widow, 10 Aurora Indica and 10 Big Bud (BB's a throw back to the 60's, lol) but I was going to cut my teeth on the bag seed. Oh, well... Anyway, is there a better, more foolproof method of germination. Your opinion is valuable to me. Just don't want to screw up when it comes to my expensive stuff. From 1st crop on, I plan to both clone and save seed. The seeds are just in case I am forced to take a growing break and have to use them.

I'll wait for an answer to my germination question. Thank you HK. Hope your holidays went well.

Mojo

 

[Truth]

Check all of your seeds with a magnifying glass for cracks and damage. Keep the temps at 75-85F. 80F best for quick germination. Keep the medium moist, not drenched. make sure the water is PH'd to 5.8-6.0. If you do all of this, you should be fine. I recommend another medium than paper towels to start seeds..it is an old method, and works o.k., but I prefer hydroton or a.o.k. starter plugs.

 

[Guest]

Check all of your seeds with a magnifying glass for cracks and damage. Keep the temps at 75-85F. 80F best for quick germination. Keep the medium moist, not drenched. make sure the water is PH'd to 5.8-6.0. If you do all of this, you should be fine. I recommend another medium than paper towels to start seeds..it is an old method, and works o.k., but I prefer hydroton or a.o.k. starter plugs.

Thanks Truth for responding. Is the hydroton or a.o.k. starter plug method better and/or more failsafe. Please describe both methods to me and tell me where I can get the materials. I'm new to all this but, being the age that I am, I tend to stick to the old tried and proven methods but then, I haven't tried or proven any of what I'm trying.

Having said that, I have gardened outside (vegetables) for many and had never used the towel method either before this venture. I'm wide open to any system that works. Please help as I am at the point now, having put the grow closet together and installing the window unit a/c, that I'm ready to germinate a few of the seeds I bought. Considering the expense of my "store bought" seeds, not to mention the risk associated with buying them, I naturally need a high germination rate (100% and all female would be nice, lol).

And thanks for the info on water pH and temp. My tap water is normally about 8 on pH so I'll put some pH down in it to make it slightly more acid. I'm using a test kit with drops to check pH as I've found it to be less equipment dependent and it's cheaper too, hehe. I know it isn't as accurate as equipment driven readings but I normally just interpolate between the colors. Of course the other applications I've tested pH for may not have been as critical or sensitive to pH as this one is.

As far as temp is concerned, during the winter, our home is kept rather cool as both the wife and I are really irritated at having to pay the electric bill having a total electric house with electric heat. We use a couple of Heatmate kerosene, wick type, heaters to knock the chill off and keep us comfortable till we go to bed. They would be excellent sources for CO2 except for the heat, lol.

When I used the towel method to try to germinate, I lowered a small desk fluoro down till it was touching the bowl I was using to cover the plate containing the towels and seeds. This seemed to warm the setup well enough that it should have been in the range you indicated. I've read that some bag seed just isn't mature enough, having been harvested too early to reach viability. Is this a fact? My seeds were a light to medium green color and some were even pale (I threw the pale ones away). I had seen an old video where the light green seeds were culled from the darker brown ones and thrown away because, according to the narrator, they had little chance of germinating.

All the help you're willing to offer is greatly appreciated and I know I speak for all of us who are new to this when I say we REALLY appreciate the help we're getting from you more experienced growers. I would have said older growers but I'm probably older, being in my mid fifties, than most who are on this forum.