Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?
- Thread starter HempKat
- Start date
No, as long as the plant is protected from light leaks during the dark period your plant doesn't know. I've run my lights at night for years and never had a problem. Although in the summer time even at night it gets so hot that the plants don't do as well as in the fall or winter. The more likely cause for what seems to be poor growth is the temps and humidity. Attics tend to be very hot and dry and it's probably taking the plant everything it's got just to maintain in that environment. Plus you say no windows so does that then mean no ventilation? That's a challenging environment that's not likely to produce well.
I will say though that the way you describe the lack of bud developement suggests that something else is going on. It's as if the plant isn't getting 12 hours of dark and therefore is staying in a vegatative state. Is there anything else out of the ordinary going on or that happened recently?
Billy Burroughs
Member
wow this is probably the most ridiculous question i've ever heard lol but no it dont's matter to the plant when day time or night time is as long as your rooms 100% sealed from light leaks they'd never know and th theroy of even a speck of light getting in is a farse as long as it's say 99% light proof you'd probablly be ok but in that case thats what they make caulking for
and from what i underfstand about heat i have never had the problem my self i run a sealed room with it's oqwn window mount ac 12k btu with 3 1000 watt HPS lights vented of course and my room never gets over 68 even when it's 115 outside here in the desert so really it depends how your set up to keep them nice and cool temps i prefer seled rooms one i can use co2 and two they stay so much kooler than a vented room i got some buddies that run ac units in vented rooms i don't know why they waste there time but they do one of them even runs co2 in an vented room but hey not my money
ppl never cease to amaze me with there antics
Billy Burroughs
Member
and hempkat thank for the advice but i think i'm going to stick with topping them twice for now and give this "supper cropping" thing a try that or LST just on one particular strain that i got that will grow buds the size of basket balls the problem is training it to open up so you get that growth the strain is ole M-39
blwd67
Member
Ok well, I didn't want to start a new thread and I am getting tired of hijacking other peoples in the infirmery, so here I am. Btw, thanks for this.
My problem is multi-facetted and will not be accompanied by pictures (unless someone wants to PM me the instructions for posting from mobile devices). Just thought I should get that out there.
I have two plants in a small cabinet (12x15x35) with one 150w HPS. The older of the two (by four days or so) is a Mandala Safari Mix ha was free with my order of Nirvana's Ice, the second. The Ice actually looks ok, roots were poking out the bottom at less than two weeks so it is now in a two liter bottle. It seems to be growing very slowly, however, as it is barely on it's third node.
The Safari is not so hot. Both cotyledons are totally yellowed and dry, the oldest leaves have yellowing from the tips to almost halfway down the leaf. Also slight burn at the tips. It is just now putting out it's third set of three fingers, fourth node. The real issue, though, is it's instability. When I watered today it seemed to almost fall over when the water fell on it. Upon closer inspection I notices a small root growing from the stem down at an angle towards the soil. I added about 1/2 inch more of soil to try and give it more stability. Forgot to mention I started this (and three others) in peat pods. I will never make this mistake again.
My temperatures are massively high, I don't really know how to fix other than a stronger fan for exhaust. So how do temperature issues manifest themselves in seedlings? Do these sound like stress from heat?
I would also greatly appreciate it if someone could give me a general idea as to how large two and a half old seedlings should be? I know these babies are small but I wan to know how far behind I really am.
I know my questions aren't that great, but I am really starting to lose my mind here. I've been growing vegetables for a long time with no problems, but for some reason cannabis is kicking my ass. These two plants are what remain from five attempts at germination. The seeds were new, they had arrived only a few days before. I don't have much money so to lose over fifty percent of my seeds already is vexing.
Thank you for any help or advice, and thank you for giving us new guys an outlet for our noob ass questions. Peace and. Love baby.
My problem is multi-facetted and will not be accompanied by pictures (unless someone wants to PM me the instructions for posting from mobile devices). Just thought I should get that out there.
I have two plants in a small cabinet (12x15x35) with one 150w HPS. The older of the two (by four days or so) is a Mandala Safari Mix ha was free with my order of Nirvana's Ice, the second. The Ice actually looks ok, roots were poking out the bottom at less than two weeks so it is now in a two liter bottle. It seems to be growing very slowly, however, as it is barely on it's third node.
The Safari is not so hot. Both cotyledons are totally yellowed and dry, the oldest leaves have yellowing from the tips to almost halfway down the leaf. Also slight burn at the tips. It is just now putting out it's third set of three fingers, fourth node. The real issue, though, is it's instability. When I watered today it seemed to almost fall over when the water fell on it. Upon closer inspection I notices a small root growing from the stem down at an angle towards the soil. I added about 1/2 inch more of soil to try and give it more stability. Forgot to mention I started this (and three others) in peat pods. I will never make this mistake again.
My temperatures are massively high, I don't really know how to fix other than a stronger fan for exhaust. So how do temperature issues manifest themselves in seedlings? Do these sound like stress from heat?
I would also greatly appreciate it if someone could give me a general idea as to how large two and a half old seedlings should be? I know these babies are small but I wan to know how far behind I really am.
I know my questions aren't that great, but I am really starting to lose my mind here. I've been growing vegetables for a long time with no problems, but for some reason cannabis is kicking my ass. These two plants are what remain from five attempts at germination. The seeds were new, they had arrived only a few days before. I don't have much money so to lose over fifty percent of my seeds already is vexing.
Thank you for any help or advice, and thank you for giving us new guys an outlet for our noob ass questions. Peace and. Love baby.
2
2Lazy
Okay, so first problem is you didn't include your methods. How you germinated. What you're growing in. How large the container is. What exactly the temperature is. A pH test of your water or solution... Lots more info is needed to accurately diagnose your issue.
But, I'll give it a whirl.
2 and a half weeks old isn't a seedling stage any more and you should be well on your way in to early vegetative growth. At 18 days in my plants are usually working on their 4th or 5th leaf sets. Height isn't a good gauge of how a plant is doing.
I think if you are having this many problems, this early on in the plant's life, then there really can only be 4 main causes.
You got the heat one covered, humidity goes along with that though, need to stay in the right range to keep your plants from transpiring too quickly.
The next one is the HPS. That bulb isn't producing much energy that a young seedling will use. You would be MUCH better off with a single 27w day light CFL bulb for each plant than your 150w HPS until you start flowering.
Thirdly we have your soil. If you are using bargain soil, or miracle grow with moisture control, or if your soil is just too nutrient rich you could be burning up your plants. Young MJ really only needs time and light and not much else until you hit vegetative stage.
Lastly there is the watering habits. MJ seedlings do best in a wet/dry environment. In other words, you want to water to complete saturation (run off) then allow the media to go basically dry before saturating again. Young plants need a minuscule amount of water so if you're watering more often then every 3 days then you're doing it too much. You also need to have your pH dialed in right, and you want to make sure you've allowed the tap water to off gas chlorides before using.
If you've done all these things exactly as I've suggested, you're using good media, then I'm at a loss. Try coco next time around, you'll find it's pretty easy to work with.
blwd67
Member
Sorry bro, I am on a mobile and like typed that out waiting for the baby to fall asleep. Methods are all organic; organic bag soil as a base with extra perlite and kelp meal, Alaska all purpose, brewed coffee, and a bit of molasses. I have no idea what my pH is in the soil, but my water pH is somewhere around 6.8. I germinated the safari seed, along with two others that never made it, using the paper towel method. This has never failed me before, granted I've only really grown twice before this (one was a mildly successful grow, the other a complete failure. A third grow had to be terminated because I was moving). The Ice was planted directly into the soil mix, along with one other seed that did not make it. Of the two the Ice is healthier but smaller (it's younger). The Safari was planted in a peat pod, but not the Ice. I water when they need it, maybe every couple days; I use the weight method, and honestly just feel it out. The Ice is now in a 2 liter with the top cut off, Safari is still in the original pot, 1l-ish. The temps are outrageous... About 104 near the top of the cab and hovering around 99-100 near the bottom where the plants are. They cannabis plants are 1 1/2 to 2 feet from the light, at the moment. Sorry for the run-on paragraph, I wanted to address this before moving on.
I would say the Safari is in early veg, putting out three fingered leaf sets; Ice is still a baby. I water when the pots are light and look pretty much dried out. I don't use bargain bag soil, only locally made and sold organic soil. Disregarding height, I guess I was asking for a general appearance for early veg? Like should there be branches? How many fingers? Etc.
As far as the HPS goes... I'm sure you are
Right, I just haven't gotten around to setting up the veg chamber with cfls. I'll get on that.
With these higher temps am I wrong in thinking I need to also raise my humidity? I checked it today for the first time, it's hovering around 25%, which I believe is pretty low. I put a humidifier behind the cab near
The intake to try and raise it.
I didn't think my soil mix would be to hot, it's all organic with no manures or guano. I also let it set for a week or so before using it. Next time I'll be using home made
Compost. It could very well be too nutrient rich, but it does not contain any moisture retention agents other than peat, and no slow release nutrients.
I know I am opening pandora's box here, but after making sure my water pH was decent I totally stopped testing. Never tested anything in my growing career (veggies). I know it's not the same, but I'm all organic and pH just isn't my bag.
Thanks for the reply and advice, I always appreciate it when someone takes the time to help when they don't need to. I am sure I left something out, feel free to yell at me until I get it right.
2
2Lazy
Sounds like temps and humidity is your issue then.
Young plants prefer something more like 70 to 80 degrees and 50% to 60% humidity. You're drastically off of both these marks. Fixing these issues will give your young plants a fighting chance. I am not surprised you're having problems with your plants given the heat and low humidity.
Switching over to CFL bulbs in clamp light reflectors is going to help with the heat, but you're going to need to upgrade your ventilation to use that thing in there anyway.
Everything else sounds spot on though so just keep doing what you're doing and get those environmentals in check.
Young plants prefer something more like 70 to 80 degrees and 50% to 60% humidity. You're drastically off of both these marks. Fixing these issues will give your young plants a fighting chance. I am not surprised you're having problems with your plants given the heat and low humidity.
Switching over to CFL bulbs in clamp light reflectors is going to help with the heat, but you're going to need to upgrade your ventilation to use that thing in there anyway.
Everything else sounds spot on though so just keep doing what you're doing and get those environmentals in check.
my lights are air conditioned and my tent (ViaGrow Silver lined) gets what I believe to be too much air flow like 500 cfm for a 2.5 x 4 x 6.5 temps are pretty consistent at 82 lights on 74 lights off and consistent 55%-60% humidity
I'm gonna give them 4 more weeks to show improvement then i'tll be time for my vegg clones to go into flowering. hate to junk em but the show must go on
wow this is probably the most ridiculous question i've ever heard lol but no it dont's matter to the plant when day time or night time is as long as your rooms 100% sealed from light leaks they'd never know and th theroy of even a speck of light getting in is a farse as long as it's say 99% light proof you'd probablly be ok but in that case thats what they make caulking for
and from what i underfstand about heat i have never had the problem my self i run a sealed room with it's oqwn window mount ac 12k btu with 3 1000 watt HPS lights vented of course and my room never gets over 68 even when it's 115 outside here in the desert so really it depends how your set up to keep them nice and cool temps i prefer seled rooms one i can use co2 and two they stay so much kooler than a vented room i got some buddies that run ac units in vented rooms i don't know why they waste there time but they do one of them even runs co2 in an vented room but hey not my money
yeah I typed that in and let it sit for about an hour before posting
I think what has happened is possibly just a longer flowering pheno I did have to restart from seed after an extended move so maybe a little more patience (4weeks) is all my ladies need
Thanks too all who have replied
I'm growing in a small tent as well. do you have an air cooled lamp? If so you could capture an a\c duct an pipe it to your lights. on average it is 130 in my attic but my tent stays nice and cool.
Also humidity is directly affected by air temp the warmer the air the more moisture it can hold and vice verse
Coffee grinds? Please do tell. ancient secret ot ph control. This could drive up ph but DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT especially if you water at 6.8 but like i said I'm totaly guessing there.
best of luck and never give up
blwd67
Member
thanks, man.
Coffee is a good source of N and a great food stuff for microbes. I'm pretty sure it lowers pH, at least that is what the internet says, but I've never tested it. I don't worry so much about pH, the bacteria create a buffer for themselves that is near neutral and there is a bit of lime in there also.
damn I did not know it should be that high. Do you think a humidifier in the room is enough or is there something else I should be doing?
I have some ceramic fixtures wired up ready to be installed. I'll try and get that done tonight. Then I can work on my ventation for the flower chamber.
I don't have a cool tube but the reflector and housing is vented. That's a really good idea though, had kind of though about it but not in detail. It is working for you? I mean there is a vent in the closet, who the hell puts ac in a closet? Well anyway I'll try ducting ac directly to the light and maybe intake. I may try and do the same thing for my humidifier, if you guys think that's a good idea.
2lazy and shake thanks for the help and advice. I'll post when I've made some modifications.
Well let me see here, first of all there's nothing wrong with starting clones and seeds in peat pellets. Lots of folks do and there's nothing wrong with them. Now peat pots can be a different story in that the pot which is supposed to break down when transplanted to soil often doesn't, but that's not relevent here.
Definately temps are a big part of your problem. The high heat is likely drying out the air because the plants are too small to be creating enough humidity to keep it at 50% RH at that temp.
The cotyledons are supposed to yellow and die off. They are the plant's main source of nutrition during the first couple of weeks while the plant is putting out additional leaves and developing it's root system.
The soil, even though it doesn't have any guano or manures in it has to be too hot because you say you have nute burn on your plants and you're not adding any ferts to the water. The ph is probably fine with your water being 6.8 but if you want to get a better sense of what the soil is like then test the runoff. If it ends up being like 6.2 or less then you may want to add some dolomite lime to your soil if it's not already there. Dolomite is an organic amendment to soil and is a source of calcium and magnesium and it also buffers the soils ph.
You don't really spell out the times involved here "I would also greatly appreciate it if someone could give me a general idea as to how large two and a half old seedlings should be?" Two and a half what? Weeks? Months? I'm guessing you mean weeks. It's hard to say for sure how big a plant should be at a certain point as there are alot of variables, such as strain and sex that can influence hieght, in general at 2.5 weeks a plant isn't going to be terribly tall around 6" maybe provided there hasn't been any problems. Your HPS light isn't helping much as it gives off red spectrum light more but in veg plants prefer blue spectrum light more. I'd follow 2Lazy's advice and switch to fluoros, it'll help lower your temps and if you get the right bulb it should improve how the plant grows.
I understand your finances being tight, mine are too so I hear you. Unfortunately the reality is that freebie seeds are usually inferior in some way that's why they're free. That doesn't mean the smoke will be bad but it's not surprising to me when freebie seeds don't germinate and/or don't grow well. The fact that the ICE is healthier is all that matters, that's what you paid for.
All in all it sounds like your biggest problem causing all your troubles is the heat. Heat being that high from a 150W is indicative of poor or no ventilation which will also effect growth because the natural co2 in the air is not being replenished. If you can manage to get your lights on temp down to at least 80 and preferably 75 to 78 degrees F then your problems should clear up.
Yeah those temps are a little high but not enough to cause problems, the humidity is right where it should be. I've never used tents before so I don't know if that's the problem but I do know there are problems associated with the use of certain tents. Something about gases they give off because of the material the tents are made out of I think. Other then that I can't think of what the problem might be based on what you've told me.
Billy Burroughs
Member
Supper cropping eh? Sounds tasty.
yeah i'm going to give it a go on one of my m-39's first see if it helps opening them up once you get them trained or what not to open up they'll give ya basketball nugs biggest buds i've ever seen anyways but that was a friend of mine growing it i've yet to get the damn thing to give me more than 2 ounces lol really i shoulda given up long ago but no fuckng way is some od man going to show me up on a strain i gave him fuck that
Ah there's a clue, if you're comparing plants from seeds to clones you likely will see a time difference in how long they take to finish. Not as bad as what you describe but for the most part clones finish faster then seedlings. I've heard of seed plants that take 60 days to finish and yet their clones finish around 45 days or so. Also if a seedling plant is put into flower before it is fully mature it seems to me like they take a little longer. It's as if the plant upon realizing it's in flower has to hurry up and finish maturing before it let's itself flower. That may not be what is actually happening but that's how it seems to me.
Billy Burroughs
Member
humidity and temps theres something i got a ? about i'm cloning atm and ya know i've been told that as long as your humidity is above 70% and temp 78 but 80+ is best and 5.8-6.0 water and you should be good is there a point at which there can be to much humidity and it not casue your clones to root or having high humidity while cloning not something to worry about i got the dome with the vents and what not my temps hanging in there right at 79-80 and heck its hard gettin it that warm with the house AC running at 70 tried putting it out in the garage but it being 115 outside my garage has holes so you cant gas yourself with the family station wagon so it dont get to hot but temps would be high 80'6 87-89 and always 99 humidity but the plants couldnt take the heat wilted them right over i just wanna make sure i get at least 2 rooted clones from each strain and i'll be happy gives me my 6 for flower and about 4 times the clones i started with i got a good 12 of each strain so i'm sure i'll get my two either way but i'd still like to get some clarification on this i use rapid rooters and a dome to clone with use olivias clone gel and then olivias cloning solution just like any of the others all the same different labels i found them to really work no better than water but hey if its free why not but i'd really like to know about the temp and humidity thing for cloning what are the pristine numbers and what are the parameters becasue if its to cold they go dormant and instead of roots grow this brown hard covering but will live in your refrigerator oh i've had them in for 4 months i believe and still cloned them and flowered but then if it gets to warm and humid they're like a mushroom they turn to slime so what is that perfect enviroment for cloning ???
gives me my 6 for flower and about 4 times the clones i started with i got a good 12 of each strain so i'm sure i'll get my two either way but i'd still like to get some clarification on this i use rapid rooters and a dome to clone with use olivias clone gel and then olivias cloning solution just like any of the others all the same different labels i found them to really work no better than water but hey if its free why not but i'd really like to know about the temp and humidity thing for cloning what are the pristine numbers and what are the parameters becasue if its to cold they go dormant and instead of roots grow this brown hard covering but will live in your refrigerator oh i've had them in for 4 months i believe and still cloned them and flowered but then if it gets to warm and humid they're like a mushroom they turn to slime so what is that perfect enviroment for cloning ???
yeah i'm going to give it a go on one of my m-39's first see if it helps opening them up once you get them trained or what not to open up they'll give ya basketball nugs biggest buds i've ever seen anyways but that was a friend of mine growing it i've yet to get the damn thing to give me more than 2 ounces lol really i shoulda given up long ago but no fuckng way is some od man going to show me up on a strain i gave him fuck that
Well why don't you just ask your friend what he does? As for opening things up. Well there are a number of ways to do that. Obviously with training you decide what direction things are going to grow so that should be able to do it but another way is to top it low, like at the 2nd to 4th node. Then the four or so branches left will become your grow tips and as the buds develope and put on weight the weight will naturally cause the plant to open up. Be careful though, if this strain really produces basketball sized buds then the weight could potentially cause the main stalk to split.
humidity and temps theres something i got a ? about i'm cloning atm and ya know i've been told that as long as your humidity is above 70% and temp 78 but 80+ is best and 5.8-6.0 water and you should be good is there a point at which there can be to much humidity and it not casue your clones to root or having high humidity while cloning not something to worry about i got the dome with the vents and what not my temps hanging in there right at 79-80 and heck its hard gettin it that warm with the house AC running at 70 tried putting it out in the garage but it being 115 outside my garage has holes so you cant gas yourself with the family station wagon so it dont get to hot but temps would be high 80'6 87-89 and always 99 humidity but the plants couldnt take the heat wilted them right over i just wanna make sure i get at least 2 rooted clones from each strain and i'll be happy
Well temp wise I've always heard 78 to 80 is the ideal or optimal temp. For cloning though I've never heard of a specific RH. I know when using a dome under the dome it's supposed to be very high but outside the dome I would think your humidity should be more like 50%. High humidity for a clone without roots is a good thing as that's the only real way for the plant to get moisture to live on until it grows roots. Once a plant is established and on it's own, humidity above 65% can lead to powdery mildew and things like that, especially if the air circulation isn't as good as it should be.
