Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

[LSWM]

I read half the thread and got bored. Here's my take.

WA can seriously go fuck themselves. All the red tape and government CONTROL is a huge problem. Then we have CO who is kinda doing it right, except, oh wait, they are still trying to CONTROL the market, and if it isn't in the interest of big business it's in the interest of crazy politicians that still think marijuana is equivalent to heroin, and that a whole generation of children will grow up stoned and that will fuck America... Still about control... but I guess that's what government does...anyways...

I'm all for legalization, but why should the government be able to tell me how many plants I can grow? They don't tell me how much beer I can brew now do they? One of the most beneficial plants around the world, grows easier than most veggies, and you are telling me I can only have 6, and it needs 4 brick and mortar walls with locked doors? Really!? It's the same game the FDA and big pharma have been playing for the last century. Instead of helping the sick, they are extracting money from them. We could cure hunger, replenish our atmosphere, provide building materials, clothing, and medicine, and anyone could aid in this mission. INSTEAD we regulate, tax, and sell the rights off to the highest bidder. It's not called a conspiracy, it's called lobbying. Totally legal, and happens all the time. Our government is completely corrupt in this regard.

If we legalized it, flat out, and say 1 in 100 people grew pot in their front yard. Nobody would ever need to buy it again. We can talk about regulations and safety concerns, but I don't see the government regulating the fruit, vegetable, or farming industries very well, do we really think this illusion of regulation will really provide a safer product to the end user? If anything they have sided with Monsanto and approved pesticides/fungicides/etc that are NOT SAFE FOR USE, and then encouraged farmers to use them. This is what happens when you let the government/big biz regulate and control the market, at least here in the land of corruption we live in.

Shaggy, as far as regulating like alcohol, I really hope it doesn't end up that way. #1, YOU CANNOT DISTILL YOUR OWN ALCOHOL. The next problem is the 3 tier system, which is still in full effect in many states, California being an exception. The system creates a monopoly or at the very least an oligarchical system where there are few distributors, and retailers are forced to stock only what the distributor allows them. New producers/competition is easily pushed out. This is exactly how it is in Denver. Exactly how the MMJ laws just went in LA County. Government and businessmen in bed together, hatching up schemes to corner the market. "Oh we are only going to give licenses to these MMJ facilities that have already been operating, because they know how to do things "right" because they have "experience" doing this for years." LOL.

The fact that I cannot grow as much marijuana as I want to and give it away is absolutely stupid and ridiculous. I understand and support decriminalization and legalization, but with legalization comes regulation, and currently I can grow as many plants, and possess as much marijuana as is necessary per my doctor's recommendation. If I go over 100 plants or 22lbs (I think) there are federal mandatory minimum sentences. Pretty sure this will change in the coming years.

I hope to see a law of legalization here in California closer to what Jack Herer had envisioned. California Cannabis Hemp Act is a great step in the right direction, but I still see no need for plant number, or weight regulations. Other than limiting availability to children, I see absolutely no purpose in regulating plant numbers or weights. I believe the reason stems from some fear that the next generation will be dimwitted if we grow that much weed, as I stated above. The problem with access to children can be solved with stricter penalties for those who sell/give to children.

I will continue to grow my own. I rarely see high quality marijuana that isn't exorbitantly expensive, even in Southern California. I can only imagine how shitty the quality will be in your average retail outlet in 5-10 years... Ughh

 

[Jhhnn]

These large scale operations make more money by sacrificing quality for quantity. It's not so much that these guys can't produce higher quality it's that doing so requires them to sacrifice yield and that's the only thing matters when growing on a large commercial scale. The numbers on the scale are more important than numbers on THC test. You're yields are going to make, or break you.

To pump out the maximum amount of weight you have to elevate the lights higher and spread it out over a larger square footage and then cram as many plants in there as you can which causes the calyxes to be much smaller. You get more overall weight, but it's just not as well defined, pristine buds like you see from a smaller operation that focuses the light on less plants over a smaller square footage.

Pure projection on your part. Retail growing in CO has only existed for 6 months, so it's impossible to tell how quantity vs quality shakes out in the long run. Given what promises to be large supply, low grade won't sell unless it's processed into BHO or similar.

I's also impossible to tell what sort of tastes & desires will develop among consumers, many of whom will not be chronics but rather weekend & occasional tokers. They don't necessarily want overwhelming potency or the elephant on your lap couch lock prevalent among med strains. They want to relax, or to party, or to bump up to finish a work day or to use it creatively in lovemaking. Lots of different goals & desired effects with the ability to easily regulate the dose in a variety of settings being part of that.

I's not like anybody wants to light up a joint of one hitter quitter couchlock weed on a hiking trail above timberline or when they're up to the crotch of their waders in the Roaring Fork, either.

 

[LSWM]

To pump out the maximum amount of weight you have to elevate the lights higher and spread it out over a larger square footage and then cram as many plants in there as you can which causes the calyxes to be much smaller. You get more overall weight, but it's just not as well defined, pristine buds like you see from a smaller operation that focuses the light on less plants over a smaller square footage.

Well see in CO, look for large scale greenhouses only using supplemental lighting. I predict we will see varying quality and quantities throughout the year from these producers, and they will certainly destroy any market for midgrade product currently produced indoors. Smaller greenhouses will lose out due to requiring 4 solid walls and locked doors.

 

[LSWM]

I's also impossible to tell what sort of tastes & desires will develop among consumers, many of whom will not be chronics but rather weekend & occasional tokers. They don't necessarily want overwhelming potency or the elephant on your lap couch lock prevalent among med strains. They want to relax, or to party, or to bump up to finish a work day or to use it creatively in lovemaking. Lots of different goals & desired effects with the ability to easily regulate the dose in a variety of settings being part of that.

Great point. Producers that can produce uplifting strains where the quantity required to smoke is still low, but the prices are rock bottom. The general public cares much less about quality, and much more about a single toke and off they go. Just as a connoisseur will pay $10 for a 22 oz beer, Joe Blow will only pay $1 for the same volume.

Probably different brands will pop up with different effects, or different brands will have different products. 1 for hike, the other for sex, the next for sleep.

 

[LSWM]

And he's black too..... OMG. Why is it that some people use every debate....even ones about weed.... to spiral >downward< (like a toilet, son) into a Fox News commentary from the right? What does any of the above misguided rant have to do with the topic at hand? Not a fuckin thing...that's what. The divisive bent spoken of here works both ways....I'm still amazed how nothing here in CO has really changed re "weed". The entire weed industry is certainly there and thriving...but since you can't smoke in the bar or on the street or at a Rockies game >legally<, public use just isn't something you >>see<< happening at a higher rate than before we "legalized"....certainly not as much as in the 70's when concerts were inundated with blue smoke and we had the pipes with the long hoses that stuck to the dashboard with a suction cup for easy toking goin down the road.... (anyone remember those?)

Funny how CO has more lax growing laws, vs WA, but WA allows public (in a bar or club) consumption. I can promise you public consumption will be a nono whenever it becomes legal here in CA. Public smoking has been illegal for like 25 years. In San Diego there are cities where you can get a ticket for smoking a cigarette on the sidewalk.

 

[budtang]

It's funny. I was just about to say commercial operations will probably realistically take over 80-90% of the sales in the market when the industry is in full force. Then, I looked up beer sales before posting that estimation to compare.

85% of the market is controlled by commercial companies. It's a $100 billion a year market. That's $15 billion a year of business for smaller craft operations. There's plenty of room for smaller operations in the weed industry.

http://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national/

 

[paper thorn]

^^maybe, unless they move it to schedule 2. then we're fucked.

 

[Jhhnn]

I read half the thread and got bored. Here's my take.

WA can seriously go fuck themselves. All the red tape and government CONTROL is a huge problem. Then we have CO who is kinda doing it right, except, oh wait, they are still trying to CONTROL the market, and if it isn't in the interest of big business it's in the interest of crazy politicians that still think marijuana is equivalent to heroin, and that a whole generation of children will grow up stoned and that will fuck America... Still about control... but I guess that's what government does...anyways...

I'm all for legalization, but why should the government be able to tell me how many plants I can grow? They don't tell me how much beer I can brew now do they? One of the most beneficial plants around the world, grows easier than most veggies, and you are telling me I can only have 6, and it needs 4 brick and mortar walls with locked doors? Really!? It's the same game the FDA and big pharma have been playing for the last century. Instead of helping the sick, they are extracting money from them. We could cure hunger, replenish our atmosphere, provide building materials, clothing, and medicine, and anyone could aid in this mission. INSTEAD we regulate, tax, and sell the rights off to the highest bidder. It's not called a conspiracy, it's called lobbying. Totally legal, and happens all the time. Our government is completely corrupt in this regard.

If we legalized it, flat out, and say 1 in 100 people grew pot in their front yard. Nobody would ever need to buy it again. We can talk about regulations and safety concerns, but I don't see the government regulating the fruit, vegetable, or farming industries very well, do we really think this illusion of regulation will really provide a safer product to the end user? If anything they have sided with Monsanto and approved pesticides/fungicides/etc that are NOT SAFE FOR USE, and then encouraged farmers to use them. This is what happens when you let the government/big biz regulate and control the market, at least here in the land of corruption we live in.

Shaggy, as far as regulating like alcohol, I really hope it doesn't end up that way. #1, YOU CANNOT DISTILL YOUR OWN ALCOHOL. The next problem is the 3 tier system, which is still in full effect in many states, California being an exception. The system creates a monopoly or at the very least an oligarchical system where there are few distributors, and retailers are forced to stock only what the distributor allows them. New producers/competition is easily pushed out. This is exactly how it is in Denver. Exactly how the MMJ laws just went in LA County. Government and businessmen in bed together, hatching up schemes to corner the market. "Oh we are only going to give licenses to these MMJ facilities that have already been operating, because they know how to do things "right" because they have "experience" doing this for years." LOL.

The fact that I cannot grow as much marijuana as I want to and give it away is absolutely stupid and ridiculous. I understand and support decriminalization and legalization, but with legalization comes regulation, and currently I can grow as many plants, and possess as much marijuana as is necessary per my doctor's recommendation. If I go over 100 plants or 22lbs (I think) there are federal mandatory minimum sentences. Pretty sure this will change in the coming years.

I hope to see a law of legalization here in California closer to what Jack Herer had envisioned. California Cannabis Hemp Act is a great step in the right direction, but I still see no need for plant number, or weight regulations. Other than limiting availability to children, I see absolutely no purpose in regulating plant numbers or weights. I believe the reason stems from some fear that the next generation will be dimwitted if we grow that much weed, as I stated above. The problem with access to children can be solved with stricter penalties for those who sell/give to children.

I will continue to grow my own. I rarely see high quality marijuana that isn't exorbitantly expensive, even in Southern California. I can only imagine how shitty the quality will be in your average retail outlet in 5-10 years... Ughh

Doom! Gloom! Big Brother! Monsanto! Shitty weed everywhere! No! No! Noooo! Aaiieee!

I'm going to apologize for that, but only just a little.

You have no idea whatsoever what it's like in Denver, at all, or what direction the market will take. I make projections myself, but I realize they're only projections given my lack of omniscience. High quality bud is widely available from dozens of shops. I don't expect it to be the very best, but I don't expect supermarket tomatoes to be as good as the ones from my garden, either. Hell, I expect certified organic weed to be available rather soon if it isn't already, the same as with fresh produce at Albertson's.

Existing MMJ outfits were merely granted first bite at the retail marijuana apple. As of this month, all CO residents are eligible for licenses. As of Oct 1, vertical integration will no longer be required, either. You won't have to grow pot to sell it retail, or vice-versa, either.

You apparently haven't been to any of Colorado's Megalomarts of alcohol, either, where selections are in the thousands, all the way from cheap pseudo-wine & rotgut vodka to magnums of very expensive French champagne & vintage wines with outrageous price tags. No one distributor controls that, at all.

Unlike alcohol, where there are limits to beer production & distillation is prohibited, the wife & I can have as much pot as we can grow from 12 plants, six in flower. I could adopt Gettogro's methods & harvest 20 lbs every 4.5 months if I wanted, keep it all or give it away in 1 oz increments all day long. I can make my own concentrates & edibles, give that away, toke up on the front porch should I feel like it.

Yeh, I'm terribly oppressed, wrapped in the chains of the system, always running in fear of the Man. It feels just like Oklahoma or Indonesia, I'm tellin ya. Well, or it might to somebody who lives to hear the sound of their own voice, whining about how it's not absolutely perfect.

 

[LSWM]

Doom! Gloom! Big Brother! Monsanto! Shitty weed everywhere! No! No! Noooo! Aaiieee!

I'm going to apologize for that, but only just a little.

You have no idea whatsoever what it's like in Denver, at all, or what direction the market will take. I make projections myself, but I realize they're only projections given my lack of omniscience. High quality bud is widely available from dozens of shops. I don't expect it to be the very best, but I don't expect supermarket tomatoes to be as good as the ones from my garden, either. Hell, I expect certified organic weed to be available rather soon if it isn't already, the same as with fresh produce at Albertson's.

Again, USDA certified "organic" is a joke. I have a buddy who grows an actually organic and sustainable farm. He works his ass off, and due to the way regulation works, he could NEVER GET ORGANIC CERTIFIED. It's simply impossible. He doesn't use pesticides, whereas the organic market uses tons. Pyrethrum is good to spray on veggies something like 24 hours from harvest... It came from a plant so it's "organic." His problem is the same problem small marijuana growers will face in the future.

Existing MMJ outfits were merely granted first bite at the retail marijuana apple. As of this month, all CO residents are eligible for licenses. As of Oct 1, vertical integration will no longer be required, either. You won't have to grow pot to sell it retail, or vice-versa, either.

This is excellent news! From what I understood Denver was only giving licenses to existing MMJ outlets. Glad to be wrong here!

This is however not the case in LA county. They just limited ALL "dispensaries" which are defined as any place where 2 or more people work together to grow or distribute marijuana, stationary or mobile, to something like 126. 126 is a lot of storefronts, even for millions of people, but it pales in comparison to the 1000+ that existed, and currently exist in some form or another. Not to mention the over encompassing law that says me and a buddy can't collectively come together to grow for ourselves. This is exactly the type CONTROL I never want to see on any larger scale. LA County is big enough!

You apparently haven't been to any of Colorado's Megalomarts of alcohol, either, where selections are in the thousands, all the way from cheap pseudo-wine & rotgut vodka to magnums of very expensive French champagne & vintage wines with outrageous price tags. No one distributor controls that, at all.

I certainly haven't. I'm a California resident, and if you read carefully I said California was one of the states where a small time beer producers CAN actually make it.

Unlike alcohol, where there are limits to beer production & distillation is prohibited, the wife & I can have as much pot as we can grow from 12 plants, six in flower. I could adopt Gettogro's methods & harvest 20 lbs every 4.5 months if I wanted, keep it all or give it away in 1 oz increments all day long. I can make my own concentrates & edibles, give that away, toke up on the front porch should I feel like it.

That sounds awesome! Too bad you can't grow it outside. To do so on a scale like you are talking about takes significant investment. Digging a hole in your front yard takes none. The 1 in 100 growing pot for everyone doesn't work in the current legal framework in CO.

Yeh, I'm terribly oppressed, wrapped in the chains of the system, always running in fear of the Man. It feels just like Oklahoma or Indonesia, I'm tellin ya. Well, or it might to somebody who lives to hear the sound of their own voice, whining about how it's not absolutely perfect.

Glad you are happy with what you have, I have hardly any complaints about my state's current system, as I said I'm much less regulated than you or anyone else in CO is, the only exception being concentrates, which if you really look at the precedants already set, you basically have to be a shoe in for multiple crimes, to get in trouble. The precedent case for wax the guy blew his house up and ran from the police in a stolen car. Guess what? THAT LOOKS BAD. It's not like the cops suddenly come and raid your house and convict you of "manufacturing drugs." Somethings gotta tip them off, and it ain't having a legal, or even quasi-legal MMJ cultivation facility in your home.

Here I am, trying to discuss a better solution for everyone, and all I hear is you bragging about how yours is "good enough." I really hope people continue to fight for full on legalization, as I would not be satisfied if CO's law suddenly became the framework for CA, unless it continued to allow for the current medical laws to stay in effect.

CO's laws may be a good example for states like Arkansas, or Kentucky, but I think it's a terrible example of the ULTIMATE direction we should be heading for outright legalization. Uruguay can suck it as well.

 

[LSWM]

It's funny. I was just about to say commercial operations will probably realistically take over 80-90% of the sales in the market when the industry is in full force. Then, I looked up beer sales before posting that estimation to compare.

85% of the market is controlled by commercial companies. It's a $100 billion a year market. That's $15 billion a year of business for smaller craft operations. There's plenty of room for smaller operations in the weed industry.

http://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national/

It's also taken 50 years to turn around. Even 10-15 years ago craft beers were hardly available. Commercial operations I would consider to be any regional brewery. I lived in San Diego most of my life and I would say there are at least 10 "regional" breweries in SD alone. I seriously doubt that the remaining 100+ has more than 5% of the local market, even in SD.

If I had to guess it's something closer to 65% big corporations, 30% regional craft, and 5% home/small scale brewers. Bud/Coors/Miller/Pabst, and the rest are Craft. Just look at the beer aisle at Vons, Alberton's, Safeway... They are basically HALF craft beer! But you can't tell me that 15% of those beers aren't "commercial breweries", 15% certainly aren't home brewers or brewing 50 gal batches in their sheds.

This is me talking about Cali, and making wild guesses, no idea the situation in CO, and certainly not Missouri.

 

[LSWM]

One last point I completely forgot to make.

How about juicing fresh raw marijuana for its medicinal and health benefits? In what frame work, anywhere, does that fit? None seem to allow for a cost effective way to do so. Outdoor growing on a large scale I see to be the only way. Maybe we could come up with special strains just for this?

 

[monsoon]

If anyone thinks "legalization" means being able to continue growing and selling as you've done illegally...yer wrong. Colorado's laws are better than anything else in the other 48 states...cus if you are still in an illegal state where you have to look over your shoulder and live in paranoia...yer screwed. Here, that just isn't the case.

As far as numbers....it's the same as it ever was...aka HOW BIG aRE YOUR BALLS? That right there is how you count plants. LOL. Grow what you want...keep yer mouth shut...don't deal.... nobody gives a fuck how many plants you have.

 

[budtang]

It's also taken 50 years to turn around. Even 10-15 years ago craft beers were hardly available. Commercial operations I would consider to be any regional brewery. I lived in San Diego most of my life and I would say there are at least 10 "regional" breweries in SD alone. I seriously doubt that the remaining 100+ has more than 5% of the local market, even in SD.

I think I've to been to one of these in San Diego years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, is it Rock Fish? This was 9 years ago. It was good. Good food, too.

If I had to guess it's something closer to 65% big corporations, 30% regional craft, and 5% home/small scale brewers. Bud/Coors/Miller/Pabst, and the rest are Craft. Just look at the beer aisle at Vons, Alberton's, Safeway... They are basically HALF craft beer! But you can't tell me that 15% of those beers aren't "commercial breweries", 15% certainly aren't home brewers or brewing 50 gal batches in their sheds.[/quote]

True, they're not operating out of sheds, but some of them did get their start by operating on fairly small scales. If you can impress a potential investor with a small batch you brew at home that small operation has potential high value and that's the point.

Small operators need to have the opportunity to impress large wealthy investors and people like that don't want to mess around with any kind of an illegal operation. They would want you to be licensed and approved by the government before they'll even consider a potential investment in your operation. Providing seed money to a small grower who operates illegally isn't something a smart, wealthy investor would want to play games with.

 

[budtang]

Sam Adams is a perfect example. Not just because they got their start in a garage, but because the growth of the company was entirely dependent upon outside investors who paid $140,00 for the company to lease space at actual brewery. That's when the company began to grow.

It all started with this guy impressing outside investors with a product that was produced in garage.

 

[Jhhnn]

If anyone thinks "legalization" means being able to continue growing and selling as you've done illegally...yer wrong. Colorado's laws are better than anything else in the other 48 states...cus if you are still in an illegal state where you have to look over your shoulder and live in paranoia...yer screwed. Here, that just isn't the case.

As far as numbers....it's the same as it ever was...aka HOW BIG aRE YOUR BALLS? That right there is how you count plants. LOL. Grow what you want...keep yer mouth shut...don't deal.... nobody gives a fuck how many plants you have.

Pretty much covers the subject.

CO authorities don't have the tools to bust small growers anymore.

Smell pot smoke? No problem.

Smell skunk weed growing? No problem.

Big heat signature? No problem.

Big electric bill? No problem.

Fat stash in the house? They'll never know, and it's no problem, anyway.

The DEA? Chained to the bench on the sidelines. They'd play Hell finding a CO jury to convict anybody not selling & having legal plant counts, anyway. The current US Attorney is way too smart to even go there.

Even if they put it all together, a person could, in truth, be growing a legal number of plants Gettogro style. The headlines & the lawsuit following that attempted bust would be a very serious problem for the authorities.

Being old school paranoid, we just stick to legal plant counts & never sell, ever. Period. It's more than we smoke, leaving enough for birthday presents & other gifting as the urge strikes us. That's the key- never sell, never give any to that cute & slutty 20 yr old neighbor chick who'd blow you to get some. Like Nancy Reagan said- just say no, drawing the line in a different place than she ever imagined. Even the worst case scenario means that nobody goes to jail.

The stash is such that I can tear down the temporary facilities next month & create better at my leisure w/o even running low. Next year, I'll probably not grow July, August & Sept when electric rates effectively jump up 50% & so that I can keep the house cooler, too. OTOH, if the new setup works as well as I hope, I may just pay the bastards & grow on. I'm exploring & catching up to what modern cannabis has to offer while not having a lot of years ahead of me, I figure.

 

[LSWM]

CO authorities don't have the tools to bust small growers anymore.

Smell pot smoke? No problem.

Smell skunk weed growing? No problem.

Big heat signature? No problem.

Big electric bill? No problem.

Fat stash in the house? They'll never know, and it's no problem, anyway.

The DEA? Chained to the bench on the sidelines. They'd y Hell finding a CO jury to convict anybody not selling & having legal plant counts, anyway. The current US Attorney is way too smart to even go there.

Even if they put it all together, a person could, in truth, be growing a legal number of plants Gettogro style. The headlines & the lawsuit following that attempted bust would be a very serious problem for the authorities.

Being old school paranoid, we just stick to legal plant counts & never sell, ever. Period. It's more than we smoke, leaving enough for birthday presents & other gifting as the urge strikes us. That's the key- never sell, never give any to that cute & slutty 20 yr old neighbor chick who'd blow you to get some. Like Nancy Reagan said- just say no, drawing the line in a different place than she ever imagined. Even the worst case scenario means that nobody goes to jail.

The stash is such that I can tear down the temporary facilities next month & create better at my leisure w/o even running low. Next year, I'll probably not grow July, August & Sept when electric rates effectively jump up 50% & so that I can keep the house cooler, too. OTOH, if the new setup works as well as I hope, I may just pay the bastards & grow on. I'm exploring & catching up to what modern cannabis has to offer while not having a lot of years ahead of me, I figure.

You are getting one point while missing the most important. Yes it is great to be able to grow, legal or illegal #s of pot. Don't you think it could be better?

In my state it is completely legal to start an npo and collectively cultivate marijuana. I work my ass off for my time spent. I am not making a fortune. I hardly even live comfortably abd that is with a day job. I could certainly go to warehouse sizing and attempt to do make a fortune.

Why should that system be stamped out? Why should i be forced to grow pot illegally, but do so under less pressure? Everything i currently do is within california law. Just because risk of getting caught goes down doesnt mean i want to break the law. I dont want to go to jail.

Do you really think CO is doing it rifht? Or could they be doing better? The point of this thread i believe was to point out how the wool can be pulled over our eyes. Its just like every other bill where politicians slip in something completely unrelated and get it passed.

"Oh look, legal marijuana! Just dont actually read the bill that makes your life worse! Legal MJ! VOTE YES!"

 

[monsoon]

Sure..it could be better. Had the clowns in MMJ not followed CALIFORNIA's "dispensary" model here in 2009....and if every dumbfuck who thought the laws were created to foster their move to our state to "blow it up" (some literally) and grow huge amounts of weed "because it's legal here" hadn't shown up on our doorstep....a lot of us would still be cruisin along like you seem to be. From late 2008-2010 we had the same set up you have...grow it...hock it to the dispensary...walk with cash in hand (OK,,,you guys get strung along or screwed but that's another thread) avoid the taxman. We THOUGHT the game would never end....

but they kept coming. Moving here "because it's legal"....and growing illegal amounts. And they are still coming. Everyone running from their home state where they haven't done shit to legalize...to Colorado....to grow..."cus it's legal here". A free gift...just for them!

So many came and played the game that they couldn't be ignored....and then the State woke up and saw the millions and millions of untaxed/untracked dollars going by and BAM... game over.

yet...they still come. Now the licensing is opening up for everyone who has a million dollars and a light (LOL)...and another HUGE shit show is about to begin.

What's funny is that I don't know anyone who buys weed....nor do I see bunches of folks running out to do so. Shit....you can't even tell "it's legal here"...other than hearing yet another person say "I'm moving to Colorado"....

Ditto Jhnnnnn. Gave 2 people oz's yesterday. Nice to have the extra to do so and not worry about the $$$$ side of it all......especially since the $$$$ side of it all isn't worth worrying about anymore unless you are SCREWING people in a retail setting.

but it is what it is and it doesn't really matter (anyway) how we got here.

good luck all

 

[LSWM]

Sure..it could be better. Had the clowns in MMJ not followed CALIFORNIA's "dispensary" model here in 2009....and if every dumbfuck who thought the laws were created to foster their move to our state to "blow it up" (some literally) and grow huge amounts of weed "because it's legal here" hadn't shown up on our doorstep....a lot of us would still be cruisin along like you seem to be. From late 2008-2010 we had the same set up you have...grow it...hock it to the dispensary...walk with cash in hand (OK,,,you guys get strung along or screwed but that's another thread) avoid the taxman. We THOUGHT the game would never end....

At the end of the day it ain't easy or cheap to grow in Cali, but it is legal. When I got into the game two years ago everyone advised me against it, that they had all been there done that and that the "green rush" was over. Then I looked at the #s and saw that these were all greedy fucks, doing things illegally and grabbing .5 GPW while dropping $$$$ on the full line of Advanced. The scene needed fresh growers that weren't relying on stacks in their closet and the the guy at the hydro store to build his room and run it for him.

This was two years ago. Now those people are barely scraping by, or have evolved to keep playing in this game. The game is going to keep changing here, and its unlikely home growers have much of a place in the future market, and that's okay with me. But I don't want to go back to the days where what I do now would be illegal. Shit, they have growers at LA farmers markets. That's the type of farming I'd love to see happen, and the government hates that because they can't grab a piece of the pie.

Farmer's Markets are almost the ultimate fuck you to government and corporate control. i have faith we will do it right in CA but only time will tell.

 

[budtang]

And they are still coming.

Well, don't you think it would be a good idea to acknowledge the fact that the law was a failure and change it so black market growers will PAY for licenses and PAY for taxes on the weed they sell? Instead of PAYING for law enforcement to do something about it? It's a pretty simple solution. The market will make it undesirable for smaller growers to relocate to your state by driving the prices down so low on TOP SHELF it won't be worth the time. The only thing your market is doing right now is driving prices down for MID-GRADE and creating a market for growers who produce better quality product. You're not going to see a price drop on top shelf, and subsequent lack of motivation for growers to move there and produce it, until you guys open the market up to top shelf growers. The low quality of the weed in your legal market is motivation for better growers to move there and take advantage of the situation. I know I wouldn't want to move there (just like I don't want to mess with California) if the weed in your dispensaries was better. But, it's not. It sucks and I'm motivated to move there because I see a market, as a result. There is no shortage of top shelf in California. There is a huge shortage in Colorado, however. You've got mid-grade weed flying off the shelves for top dollar in Colorado. It's hilarious.

 

[budtang]

California= you better bring your A+++++ game Colorado= you can get by just fine on a C- That's the way I see it. Clearly, given all the immigration to CO, I'm not alone.