Vaccines are Contaminated

[jd4083]

In case you have forgotten rule #1 of logical discourse in an epistemic dispute: when presenting information that is not widely accepted as fact, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not the other way around.

That sure would make some of the things you say a little easier to swallow...ya know, actually offering evidence for wild statements instead of telling the person asking for it to go read a book and do their own research. lol

FUCKING CHRIST! I GOTTA DO EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE!?!?! Not enough we got fucking dead and dying plants all over the boards and shitty advice abounding from immature people (though not as bad as some boards, thankfully).... Now I have to go RE-DO my F'ng research because YOU can't do a FUCKING SEARCH ON YOUR OWN!????

WHAT THE FUCK!??!!!??!?!?!

Damn... it doesn't pay to read people's drivel some days. *sigh* Yeah, my meds are currently shit as well.

I can't believe I'm even fucking considering doing this research again and that people won't just take my word for it AND DO IT THEMSELVES!

Nothing I'm going to say or link to is going to convince you anyway.... all I'm typing here for is to prompt you to... DO IT YOURSELF! Or fuck off and forget the subject. Bow to the whim and wisdom of the morons around you and you and yours will pay the price.

Wild statements... *sheesh* Everything I've stated came from patents, company literature, research studies and the like. I don't make statements like these lightly.


H-S OUT!

well...I'd say you made my argument for me there. The burden of proof is on the person making the ridiculous claims. Period, the end. This is how logical discourse works. If you are not willing to provide proof for your statements, and if you are going to blow up and get angry when someone asks you for such factual evidence, then don't make wildly inaccurate statements on a public forum. There is no half-assing it when it comes to an argument. (And I'm talking about an ARGUMENT here -- not an e-fight or a pissing match or a mudslinging contest, but a logical argument.) You either prove your point or you don't participate.


edit- and for the record...that part up there a few posts where I was talking about the definition of ad hominem? If you go search the term out you may just find your photo as an example next to the definition.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Now you understand why I wrote what I did to Hydro, yes? Denigration and ad hominem a logical argument (let's replace that with debate, people get heated when that word is used) does not make.

A single cited paper, or even a paper that cites others, which would hint to me that at least a modicum of scientific method and rigor were used in arriving at whatever conclusion it's arrived at.

Not to put you on the spot, but I don't suppose you have credible sources for any of your statements in this post or the ones preceding it, do you? That sure would make some of the things you say a little easier to swallow...ya know, actually offering evidence for wild statements instead of telling the person asking for it to go read a book and do their own research. lol

I have asked for cited papers, but have received no such response. I included a single cited paper in one of my last responses hoping that someone who's on the fence and/or in a position of ignorance over this issue might be inclined to at least read the abstract. I fear no one has.

I am the mother of a high-functioning autistic whose immune system works almost flawlessly NOT because he was immunized or wasn't, but because I have allowed him exposure to the earth and to animals. He was delivered from the womb in that condition, and I happen to have my own feelings on why my son is autistic. But blame the vaccines? I can't, because I knew it the moment he was removed from my body, BEFORE he received even the first prick of a needle. So, if mom knew it the moment she met the un-immunized child, how do you explain it? It wasn't until he was 12yo that he was diagnosed, though as I said I 'knew' it the moment I met him. So, if anyone really wants to enter into a discussion of autism with me, I welcome it. He's an adult now, taking horticulture classes, uses cannabis to help stimulate his appetite and calm his nerves, it stops a lot of the stemming behaviors that he still carries over.

I am the grandmother of a girl who is gluten-intolerant. Her condition went undiagnosed for almost two years, and it presented itself not as a failure to thrive, but as chronic and truly terrible constipation and unresolved skin problems. I was able to diagnose her issue with the help of my mother, who just happens to be a registered dietitian (she holds a Ph.D in her area of expertise). Her (Navy) doctors and parents hadn't gotten it figured out, they just kept giving the poor child enemas. She had hemorrhoids and anal fissures before she hit 2yo, and it was me who figured it out.

I was also raised by my father, who is a physician specializing in nuclear imaging (retired now) and was mentored as a young man by a man called David Ferrie (Google him), which means I was raised to hold the utmost distrust for Uncle Sam. So now what? I've met the surgeon and raised it with a dietitian and radiologist. <shrug>

FWIW, I don't take flu shots at this point in time, but I am mindful of things like simple, frequent hand-washing and other basic techniques. It chaps my ass to be labeled by someone who doesn't know a fucking thing about me, my beliefs, practices, etc.

 

[Storm Shadow]

In Tuyerskan, Iran...str8 boonies ...I have family members who have never been innoculated with one vaccination ever...and are in the 90's and will continue on more then likely into their 100's...

Fresh Air, Fresh Water, and all homegrown food will do you right...

Big Pharma is not ever here to help you ..Big Pharma is a part of the ELITE of the world...

$$$$$ is they care about... we have cured one diesase ever Polio !!! Wayyyy more money in keeping people sick and feeding the system ...than healing them..fuck Big Pharma

 

[SeaMaiden]

Uh, no, we've also completely eradicated smallpox in the wild, it only exists in Petri dishes and frozen stores now.

 

[HUGE]

So has anyone Watched that video I posted that shows the head of meek talking about aids and leukemia being in vaccines but that they would never disclose such things to the public because "it's a scientific problem within the scientific community". Money talks & might makes right.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

So has anyone Watched that video I posted that shows the head of meek talking about aids and leukemia being in vaccines but that they would never disclose such things to the public because "it's a scientific problem within the scientific community". Money talks & might makes right.

Yes..and if i remember correctly there are a few keywords and phrases in there that will start anyone on the right research path.

As it so happens, the encrypted session to icmag is the only connection my unpaid isp is allowing. (Most likely not intentional on their part to allow it)

If someone was interested in finding out what I know they would do well to do searches in the following areas. (keep in mind this is off the top of my head as I have no notes on this from 2 years ago)

chicken eggs as incubators
cell replication for culturing vaccines
patents on culture separation in eggs (can't remember the keywords used now)

Should you be able to find the right stuff in those areas you'll find references to other studies and papers that have been published. I remember that it would have been helpful if I'd known a medical student at the time that had access to databases that were closed to me.

That's simply one component of these shots... want to go slog through 500 research papers on polysorbate-80 and brain function? *sigh*

You tools really take the cake. Not a lick of your own research and everything that goes against the mainstream is a "Wild Claim". Must be boring where you live.



I'm not interested in winning any special olympics around here. I've presented more than enough info to get any _seriously_ interested party a head start in the right direction.

The rest of you retards are welcome to continue to bluster and bicker.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Why O why don't we have a facepalm smilie on this site?

Ad hominem, nothing but, and it's not a good way to make your point (aka argument). I've provided an excellent paper that is both cited and shows citations, even has a far better than average abstract, more than enough links within to take you where *you* apparently need to go in terms of research (hint: YouTube isn't 'research'!). So far all I see from you are those flappin' gums.

Not to mention, didn't you say you were out of this thread once or twice?

 

[AWAKE]

Why O why don't we have a facepalm smilie on this site?

Ad hominem, nothing but, and it's not a good way to make your point (aka argument). I've provided an excellent paper that is both cited and shows citations, even has a far better than average abstract, more than enough links within to take you where *you* apparently need to go in terms of research (hint: YouTube isn't 'research'!). So far all I see from you are those flappin' gums.

Not to mention, didn't you say you were out of this thread once or twice?

Just to be clear, you too only provided a link to a web site SeaMaiden. What makes you think the people behind that paper are any more credible than someone on youtube?

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Go ahead and get vaccinated, drink tap water and eat your genetically modified foods.

I do hope this argument sparks the slightest interest to dive deeper into the facts and find out for yourself you have been hosed.

Best to you and yours.

 

[Molson]

Lets not derail the conversation by making jabs at one another.

I'm very familiar with peer-reviewed lit. I don't have the time nor the desire to sort through vaccine papers.

Overall, the way I see it, the bottom line is the benefits received from getting vaccinated far outweigh the costs (i.e. the negligible health risks involved). Right? Can we agree on this? Simple cost/benefit analysis.

More people die from x disease than from complications/obscure reactions from the vaccine protecting against said disease? Right? Can we agree?

Simple cost/benefit.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Just to be clear, you too only provided a link to a web site SeaMaiden. What makes you think the people behind that paper are any more credible than someone on youtube?

Well, veracity. You have absolutely no way to show or prove veracity of anything put up on YouTube, whereas a paper that's been cited and shows what other papers were used in the research (aka citations) has a great deal of veracity, easily proven, shown, etc.

I could have provided many, many, MANY more links, especially through Google Scholar, but something tells me that few, if any here will be arsed to read even the first paragraph of the abstracts.

So, that's what's telling me that the link I chose has better veracity (truthfulness that can be proven, claims that can be double-checked or even tested using the methods, etc., that were used by those making the claims or assertions) than pretty much any YouTube stoners like to come up with. I mean... seriously?

I'm not telling anyone what to do. Go ahead and get vaccinated, drink tap water and eat your genetically modified foods.

I do hope this argument sparks the slightest interest to dive deeper into the facts and find out for yourself you have been hosed.

Best to you and yours.

Me, too! I also hope to show people how to discern between flappin' gums and true information. Just because it's in print doesn't make it true. Just because it's on YouTube doesn't make it true. Just because someone hollers really super loud, again, does not make something true.

But hey, don't believe me, go get some factual information yourself. But not from YouTube, for Chrissakes, mkay?

 

[AWAKE]

Well, veracity. You have absolutely no way to show or prove veracity of anything put up on YouTube, whereas a paper that's been cited and shows what other papers were used in the research (aka citations) has a great deal of veracity, easily proven, shown, etc.

Not that I believe any main stream media is able of being called the truth, the link i posted was to a show on MSNBC. I know you didn't watch it, hence your reply. I'm pretty sure most news organizations have fact checkers who validate claims before they put them on the air.

I meant no malice in my statement, just that there are many points of view in the world. Yours is based on the current socioeconomic system that everyone believes is beneficial to their existence. I choose to be a free thinker who questions these people who are no more than that, people.

I felt the standpoint of Hydro-Soil was worth backing, as it follows close to mine.

You seem to yearn for validation that you are right, a common egotistical standpoint of the current crop of sheep.

Try understanding something from another viewpoint once in a while. You might learn something and even make a few friends.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

 

[rootfingers]

Welcome, Awake, you might like this guy dudesome around here.

 

[mofeta]

I am appalled by the conduct of some of the members in this thread.

I will not address the subject matter of the thread, although it is extremely interesting.

SeaMaiden, I don't know you, but I would like to commend your knowledgeable and respectful conduct in this thread. Good form! It is a measure of your good character that you have refrained from sinking to the level of your detractors. You are a very polite lady. I apologize to you on behalf of my gender for the cowardly attacks on you in this thread.

Now, as I am not a polite lady, I will proceed to add some much needed balance in this thread.

... don't just blindly re-quote what you've read/heard somewhere. You sound like a propaganda record.

FUCKING CHRIST! I GOTTA DO EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE!?!?! YOU can't do a FUCKING SEARCH ON YOUR OWN!????

WHAT THE FUCK!??!!!??!?!?!

Damn... it doesn't pay to read people's drivel some days.
I can't believe I'm even fucking considering doing this research again and that people won't just take my word for it AND DO IT THEMSELVES!

Or fuck off and forget the subject. Bow to the whim and wisdom of the morons around you and you and yours will pay the price.

You tools really take the cake. Not a lick of your own research and everything that goes against the mainstream is a "Wild Claim". Must be boring where you live.

I'm not interested in winning any special olympics around here.
The rest of you retards are welcome to continue to bluster and bicker.

Hydro-Soil, you are a pseudo-intellectual bully.

You refer to other people's opinions as drivel, call them "tools" and "morons", tell them to "fuck off". Your disgusting denigration of people with developmental disorders (...winning any special olympics... retards...) reveals you as a base coward.

Your close-minded, dogmatic attitude is industrial strength. I spend a fair amount of my time in the real world trying to convince scientists and physicians that the semi-empirical/non-scientific anecdotal observations of the layman should not be discounted. I run into a significant amount of irrational opposition when dealing with these professionals, but most of them are good people with open minds and civil tongues. You could learn something from them.

You embody the worst of what you accuse others of.

This is a shame. The subject matter of this thread is fascinating. The intricacies involved in the understanding of these issues are deserving of intense analysis, using both peer-reviewed science and the layman's observations, integrating both in an open-minded synthesis. Respect and civil deportment are essential to do this.

Some of the things you have referenced have some value in this discourse, but your off-handed dismissal of other peoples opinions, and your offensive, pretentious attitude obscure any value they have.

Now, as I know a fair amount on this subject, we could discuss it rationally. Or you could continue your offensive tirade and call me a "retard". As I have spent considerable time trying to help the developmentally disabled, and protect them from the small-minded, insecure bigots that use the term, I advise you against doing so.

mofeta

 

[SeaMaiden]

Mofeta, thank you. I do my best, which includes trying always to keep my mind open (believe it or not).

Not that I believe any main stream media is able of being called the truth, the link i posted was to a show on MSNBC. I know you didn't watch it, hence your reply. I'm pretty sure most news organizations have fact checkers who validate claims before they put them on the air.

You're right, the moment I see the YouTube url I am not about to spend a minute of my time on it unless it's spelled out that it's purely for entertainment purposes. However, we would be morphing this discussion if we went on the tangent of fact-checking by big media/news corporations, as I personally am rather incredulous of that as being 'fact' given not only the political, but legal climate of 'fact' checking. Media is there to sell advertising dollars, so they pander, they seek out attention-grabbing headlines, and the headline 'vaccines aren't as bad as many think they are' just isn't an attention-grabbing headline, IMO.

I meant no malice in my statement, just that there are many points of view in the world. Yours is based on the current socioeconomic system that everyone believes is beneficial to their existence. I choose to be a free thinker who questions these people who are no more than that, people.

Don't corner me, don't you dare label me and don't presume to know me, my motivations, or beliefs. I mean no malice in that statement, but I mean every word.

It is my contention that by allowing ourselves to be occupied in our minds by things that aren't true that we are not watching the ball. NDAA, anyone? It's passed. Corporations making legislation? It's the world we live in. Corruption, malfeasance and politicians/government employees taking food out of the mouths and clothing off the backs of innocent citizens? Happens under our very noses each and every day.

I felt the standpoint of Hydro-Soil was worth backing, as it follows close to mine.

You seem to yearn for validation that you are right, a common egotistical standpoint of the current crop of sheep.

Well, with that you have demonstrated just how disingenuous your previous assertion of meaning no malice is. In other words, bullshit on that one. Again, you don't know me, so don't presume to know me by this one issue. Dare I point out that, unlike Hydro, I am not posting threads asking others for validation? Dare I point out that I have endeavored to SUPPORT my points NOT by attacking others, not by denigrating them by assuming a single thing about them other than what they've actually posted (unlike Hydro and now yourself), but by supporting my assertions with facts? Dare I?

I have yet to call anyone names here, I have yet to label them, I have yet to do anything other than call their claims of fact into question, asking them to support their assertions. And I get this kind of crap in return.

Try understanding something from another viewpoint once in a while. You might learn something and even make a few friends.

Happy holidays to you and yours.

How about you try taking some of your own advice? Looks like you need it. I have asked repeatedly for papers (that means based on good, solid science, with citations, that show how their research was done) that demonstrate veracity of peoples' claims. So far not a ONE has provided such evidence to support their claims. So far each and every one, yourself now included, has obfuscated more than anything else and seems to flat out refuse to provide an iota of evidence to support their assertions. Not. One.

If it's out there, it should be really easy.

In the meantime, would you like a labeller for Christmas? Seems like you could use on to make it easier to label things and people. I like the Brother P-Touch labellers. Or perhaps a set of paint pens.

 

[FreedomFightr]

Damn I did not mean to cause all this damn Drama.

 

[AWAKE]

And the white flag comes out....

And the white flag comes out....

Fine, you win.

I wish you well, and hope your eyes are opened before it's too late.

I still stand behind my intent, I mean no harm.

Seems sometimes those who genuinely know they are wrong fight the hardest for their cause.

May your days be happy and fancy free.

P.S. I like magic markers better.

P.P.S. Do you work for the pharmaceutical industry by chance?

 

[trichrider]

oh, i dunno...watched the video on youtoob and the guy splained things in an understandable fashion...certainly knew what he was talking about.
had it not been a leadin for his business it would have seemed more sincere...uh, had it been more like an expose he would have captured my opinion.

 

[HempHut]

P.P.S. Do you work for the pharmaceutical industry by chance?

For purposes of argumentation, it matters not in the slightest one way or the other:


Circumstantial Ad Hominem:

A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy in which one attempts to attack a claim by asserting that the person making the claim is making it simply out of self interest. In some cases, this fallacy involves substituting an attack on a person's circumstances (such as the person's religion, political affiliation, ethnic background, etc.). The fallacy has the following forms:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B asserts that A makes claim X because it is in A's interest to claim X.
Therefore claim X is false.

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on A's circumstances.
Therefore X is false.

A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy because a person's interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made. While a person's interests will provide them with motives to support certain claims, the claims stand or fall on their own. It is also the case that a person's circumstances (religion, political affiliation, etc.) do not affect the truth or falsity of the claim.

 

[Microbeman]

Hmmmm.. I don't usually come over here. As it just happens to turn out I do have some personal and quasi-scientific experience in this area.

I'll begin by agreeing that vaccines have contributed vastly to the survival of the weak peoples of the earth (white europeans, the black white people and to a degree many asians). As Sea has commented polio and small pox are eliminated (virtually) and many more children survive into adulthood.

I can't remember the statistic...1 in 4 or more died before something. Whatever it was, I wonder what the same statistic was for North & South American natives before the aformentioned arrived. [not the phoney stats produced by the USA government saying that their life expectancy was 30 or some such figure).

I do believe that vaccines are useful and have their place, however, the way they are administered and manufactured needs some serious adjusting.

I found the science/drug world's debunking of the assertion, that vaccines can be the cause or trigger of autism, rather amusing and amateurish. The scientsts on payroll were instructed to come up with an argument against this assertion now!

Even though the argument, given for vaccines being a contributing factor to the development of various autistic spectrum disorders was exceedingly scientifically logical, the prostitute scientists glommed onto one pathetic aspect of it with very little consequence. That was mercury.

The actual information presented asserted that when multiple vaccines were mixed into a cocktail and injected into a young child's tissue/bloodstream that this could easily cause an assault upon the immune system. This can be especially true if the child has a cold or flu at the time of inoculation. Quite logically this causes sweeping changes to the microbial make up in the gut (for you who do not know, your gut IS your immune system).

This can (& does) cause a weakening or even structural change to the blood-brain barrier, allowing a temporary or permanent change to how the nervous systems accepts and reacts to molecular structures. Because of this a gluten or __________ (your choice) molecule is allowed to behave (plug into a neuronal binding spot) as it normally would not. The effects of this are wide ranging, from purely physiological effects to effects similar to being constantly overdosed on LSD.

The small community of parents with children with autism and associated scientists were asking that the medical and drug community look at not giving all the vaccines together and to revisit how they are manufactured. One very small part asked to reconsider using mercury.

It is this last insignificant part of the science that the prostitute scientists jumped on. Here is how we can please our bosses. What they did is one of the most despicable underminings since Ignaz Semmelweis was persecuted for suggesting handwashing and since Robert Becker suggested limbs can be regenerated.

Sorry but it may be very difficult to locate peer reviewed literature on this.

On top of this, they found any easy mark in Dr. Wakefield (a bit of a mumbly bumbly) who actually did not even do the things wrong that he was accused of. (that I could find)

I have worked with approximately 20 severely autistically affected children and adults and have heard the stories from their parents of abrupt change in behaviour and health immediately following vaccines. I have no doubt that the vaccines were the cause or contributing factor.

Based on the blood-brain barrier hypothesis mentioned, I've had the opportunity to provide altered diets to some autistic individuals (eg. no milk, no gluten) with some pretty profound positive changes.

[The people I worked with were mostly severely effected...non-verbal, etc]

Do I believe vaccines should be discontinued? No! But see if they are available in smaller packages (1 or 2 at a time). If your child is ill or acting unusual, cancel the appointment.

Microbeman

 

[Microbeman]

Here are some various perspectives [google scholar]

http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&...IRijEEy0fVCAx-55yTM9zEyMI#v=onepage&q&f=false

Probably the only accurate read
https://www.aacp.com/Pages.asp?AID=7937&issue=August 2009&page=C&UID

http://www.dianaparsell.com/documents/SNAutism.pdf

http://www.whale.to/m/levy1.html

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/mmr.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1117437

http://www.braintrusters.com/journals/vaccines/andreaeHV1-1.pdf