v2 'dream system' DIY and diary

[GMax]

It's shit like that man...your V2.5 will have all these things factored...killin' it with the Wonderwall GMax.

yeah things like this definately factored in to the next round.... my real v2.5 is gonna have an extension on the capped part in the picture.. i am gonna add 3-4 maybe even 5 more rows in a straight line, to both systems...so then instead of a circle, i have a sorta oblong rectangular oval...then i will use light mover to move the lights from one side to the next...increasing my canopy exponentially with the same amount of light...

idk i have been thinking bout that and it should work ..havent really got any opinions back on it though...should be easy though...add an extension to the base...extension to the manifold.. extension to the screen and done

looking good. Just checking in yo.

rbdf

thanks bro glad to have ya




ok.. so all the top offs and running water comes from a main 150g RO rez...back at the beginning, before i had this room built, i hooked up my 100g/day RO machine to a float with automatic shutoff valve (ASV)...somehow my 100gpd RO could fill faster than it was rated..and fill up the 150g tote about 24 hrs...

when i started i had a full tote and i have never had to use more than 50-60gal at any one time..but with all the problems i have been having lately with the water levels in my main rez were down to only 20 gal.. now with everything going at full steam and things needing topped off while at the same time trying to fill the main rez back up, it is having trouble keeping up

here is my main rez setup..it kinda ghetto but it does a good job



each one of the clear tubes is tapped into the 3/4'' line..one goes to the mom control rez..one to the Wonderwall rez..one to the old flower room control and top off rez.. and one for the veg room...there is a open ended hole at the top of the tube for air to help gravity drain water...

i think i have fixed any problems that i have been having with the WW rez.. the new timer settings for the return rez seems to be working and bringing back all the water that goes in and i cant seem to find any more problems with it..

the WW rez is still not at the level that the float itself is set at..so it would seem that it is still losing water.. but i think it is a trick, which has been happening to me alot lately.. by observation i should believe that the big rez is still losing water still or the wonderwall isnt draining enough

but i think that since my rez is only half full... i am not getting the full gravity speed flow that i am used to...or it could also possible be my RO machine needing maintenence... i havent changed the filters since i bought it so maybe it has slowed down on its water producing abilities.. either way i need to be observant to get to the bottom of this


so now i have a question... i am trying to get my RO caught back up, and i have already been flushing longer then planned..so the WW rez is due for another rez change...that would set me back almost all the way to the beginning..so i am wondering how terrible it would be to just use the RO water that has been recirculating in the WW for the last two days, and just add nutes to it ??

it started as just 50g plain RO with 100ml SM90... but i have had to add back close to the same amount back with all the problems, so it is even more diluted..think it would be ok to just reuse it to make nutes????


i really need to get the main rez filled back up so i can monitor it and do a real test and see if it is or isnt the problem

 

[GMax]

doublepost

 

[bobblehead]

I don't have an answer for your problem... But it sounds like you could use a pressure booster for your RO.

 

[GMax]

I don't have an answer for your problem... But it sounds like you could use a pressure booster for your RO.

thanks bobble..you think so?? i have city water and it has good pressure .. i thought booster pumps were for people with well water and lousy pressure ??

i did a little experiment..i shut off the water supply to everything and had the RO tank being filled only... after exactly an hour there was 5 more gallons in the RO tank... so that is roughly 120 gpd.. granted it only rated for 100gpd but that is definately slower than it used to run and all my systems combined probably use more than 5gal per hr in topoffs...

so i am definately having some issues with the RO machine.. i am trying to figure out the best way to combat it because i am kind of on a budget until i harvest the WW.. since it worked before i am thinking that it i may need my filters changed..it been at least 2yrs.. the booster pump could also be a possiblity..not sure the price on those but i am guessing between $100-200... or i may just have to bite the bullet and upgrade to a bigger RO machine..

i am trying to pick the right decision first.. would rather not buy the filters for the 100gpd and it not work.. or get the booster pump and not work..and have to end up buying a 200+ gpd RO and be out the $$ for the filter/have a booster pump i dont need anymore already

could i use the booster pump inline with my exising 3/4'' tubing to help drain the WW rez ?? right now it just gravity drain and has flexible tubing to a drain, but it slooooow

 

[bobblehead]

Upgrade to a bigger RO unit. I think you'll be happier with that, because like you said, you already have good pressure. Boosting it will just make you run through filters faster.

 

[GMax]

Upgrade to a bigger RO unit. I think you'll be happier with that, because like you said, you already have good pressure. Boosting it will just make you run through filters faster.

ok well i definately be looking into a new RO unit then..thanks bro


decided to be safe and drain the water from the WW rez and refill it back up with fresh RO ...

this week nute schedule is a little lighter on base nutes ..with added dry koolbloom

30ml Calmg
150ml GH Micro
250ml GH Bloom
5ml powder KB
50ml Silica Blast
175ml SM90
30ml Drip Clean


still not comfortable enough to leave it for a few days so i am gonna take a break for a few hours and stay at the grow again tonight... i havent really spent that much time with the WW during lights on anyways

i will see how my RO acts for the next few days before i make a decision.. the plants in the WW are drinking a lot at this point.. there are 48 plants and if they all drink half gallon a day that is 24gal..and half gallon per day isnt even really all that crazy amount ... my rez only holds 50gal total...

but i am gonna watch the nutes now and see if the water levels continue to drop faster than float can keep up...i may also need to update to a large diameter float valve....coming on the home stretch now.. this is the last nutes it is gonna get before the final flush.. if i am still having problems, i am gonna hook my system to the house water supply and run tap water for flush but i plan on getting this situated or having a new RO in next few days

also as you can see from my last veg pic i have plants ready for the second WW and i havent even started building it yet and only have a little over 50% of the part..so i gonna use these next few day to try to get stuff done and to get my shit together

 

[high life 45]

Upgrade to a bigger RO unit. I think you'll be happier with that, because like you said, you already have good pressure. Boosting it will just make you run through filters faster.

I second that.

One of my best investments was a 1000gpd ro.

 

[GMax]

I second that.

One of my best investments was a 1000gpd ro.

i think you all may be right...like i said i stayed at the grow...when i woke up this morning, the levels in my main RO tank were up about 20 gallons from last night...and my WW rez was down about an inch from where it started last night...


i tried another experiment ... i waited for the big pump to cycle, then i took the top off line to the WW rez out, and stuck it in a gallon water jug... i waited till the big pump cycled again and see how much water had flowed through the topoff line in that time...the total was about 1/2gal

since my WW rez levels are dropping, and i cannot find any other reason for the missing water... that means that my plants have to be eating/drinking more than 1/2gal per misting cycle.....which really doesnt seem too impossible...with 48 plants, 1/2gal= about 2.5 TBSP per plant...since they have no other source of water to drink from except the sprays, i guess that isnt unreasonable...

i just made nutes yesterday, and all ready they look watered down...its times like this i wish i had a ppm pen...but they got flushed for 2 days midflower, so maybe they just super hungry


i have also been trying to think how the roots are acting inside the tubes...there is actually 3 sometimes 4 return rez cycles per mistering cycle..by the 3rd one the water levels are gone and if there is a 4th, no water is brought back..so that shows me that all the water going in gets returned

since there is a mass of roots...i am imagining the roots getting sprayed.....the roots soak up all the water and the excess "runoff" goes out the tube and gets returned to rez first...at this point, there is a bunch of wet roots that are dribbling with water (like a mop that is dipped into water, and lifted out without squeegying) all this water forms the second puddle and goes to return rez drain...now it is just a bunch of semi dry roots..the water droplets on these roots attach to other droplets and so on, until finally there is the last puddle of water that goes to the return rez...not sure if this is how it is working but it how i imagine it...

if this is true, then i could probably adjust my timer..i would have to wait til all the water is drained out before the plants actually begin their "aero 5 min dry cycle"..i wouldnt be able to do this without having to adjust all my coolers/cloners to this extended cycle also, unless i bought a 3rd timer


idk just some thoughts..this system was a test, and i am trying to get familiar with how my system works...for now i am gonna upgrade to a larger RO and also a larger diameter float valve and see how that works...might also get myself a cheap sturdy ppm pen


thoughts tips and opinions appreciated...

 

[Mister_D]

Bluelab truncheon meter. Cheap, durable, and highly recommended

 

[bobblehead]

Don't go cheap on your ppm pen unless you want cheap unreliable readings. I have a bluelab combo meter, worth every penny.

 

[GMax]

Bluelab truncheon meter. Cheap, durable, and highly recommended

Don't go cheap on your ppm pen unless you want cheap unreliable readings. I have a bluelab combo meter, worth every penny.

well of course the bluelab is good...it is like the cadillac or ppm/ph pens...it just not in the budget right now ...i dont really need one for making nutes...even with these aero systems, i have lived without owning a ph or ppm pen for a while...if i ever need a ph reading i use a dropper kit... i was thinking something way cheaper for a 1-2 time use then toss

one thing is for certain... i am losing water or the plants are drinking/eating like crazy... i cannot find any leaks and there is not built up water in the system so the only conclusion i can come to is the latter

one thing for sure...i made nutes yesterday..and it had the GH cherry koolaid look and now today it looks like a giant rez of plain water..

i flushed them while they are healthy and they are very big now and there is 48 of them..but i am finding it hard to believe they ate/drank all that in one night... it is a weed growing mystery

anyways i just got back from the hydro store..picked me up a stealth 200gpd RO, and doing its initial warm up now before i hook it up to the rez..the pressure gauge was broken on my old RO, but they new RO says the house water pressure puts it at 80psi

the float is still barely to not even keeping up at all...they didnt have a larger diameter float at the store, i would have had to order one...my 150 gal RO tank is up to almost 100gal so hopefully when it is full i get better gravity flow...

do you think it is possible for these 48 plants to drink 1/2gal total w/ every watering ??????!!!!!!

that is the mystery i am trying to solve right now... lets say 5gal goes in with each spray..only 4.25 gal come back and the float adds another .5gal to the rez..but in the end, it still less than 5 gallons that it started with...

with every spray and even with 1/2gallon add back from float between cycles...my water levels in my rez drop ever so slightly..i cant find any leaks or built up water and the return rez gets drained completly before the next spray

 

[GMax]

well i might as well snap some more shots..no such thing as too many pictures, and i only have that breif window at night between flips where i can take pics without having to unplug anything...there is actually 2 windows but i am usually not awake or here for the morning flip

i have got the new RO hooked and got my RO tank almost full...the extra water is giving the float lines more pressure and allowing more water to flow...now i did the experiment and close to 1gal can be topped off between each mist cycle...

I cant really tell if the plants have slowed on their eating or drinking but i can tell that the water levels are no longer dropping in the rez...the float seems to be keeping up now...

i am gonna invest in the bluelab pen..the last pen i had was only $25 and it worked well but it wasnt waterproof so i had an accident and it was broke after that....i probably wouldnt use it that often, but in times like these i am in the dark without it... the WW has given me a easier oppurtunity than my old system to measure and record nutes so i might as well take advantage...with the pen i would be able to dial in the nutes better

as far as the plant go, they are looking awesome...they are so healthy right now and i am debating letting them finish out with the nutes that they have already and a 14 day flush, or trying to hit them one more time with nutes and a 10 day flush... and if they get burnt, i can just flush anyways..again this decision would be easier to make with a ppm pen

here some shots

whole room..since they no longer stretching you dont see that much differerence in this picture..




my camera shitty for trich pics..i supposed to get one for christmas so just gotta wait for them to get better...





more buds..




my plants look healthy so i am gonna wait and decide on whether or not to change the nutes...as bad as this sounds i have never had a crop that wasnt overfertilized/lockout/deficient come harvest time..i always seem to have at least burnt tips..and i dont have any of that now so i may just wanna not push my luck..

it really a tough choice on which gonna yeild more..trying to push them to their nutrient limits, or keeping the nutes light enough to keep them healthy... it would seem that the plants have already ate all the nutes i have gave them so they could be ready for more

either way i think i am gonna break my personal record with this crop..which i might as well say now while it still true: my best (gpw-wise) yeilds were with 400s in cooltubes (.9gpw) a little weird i know...once i updated to 600s, i was able to harvest more efficiently (more crops/walls) but i havent been able to reach the same gpw average as with cooltube 400s...

i am ready for that to change....

 

[bobblehead]

Yes healthy plants drink like crazy! That's why it's important to have a good dehuey too... cause when they're sucking up water, they're dumping it out into the air too... Luckily I have a severe root aphid infestation so I don't have the problems that you're experiencing.



Keep up the good work. The water isn't just disappearing. The plants are drinking it.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

Yeah, they are definitely drinking up that water. A lot of the water clings to the roots once the mister stops spraying. I have really been thinking about doing an aero vert donut run in my 1200w vert room, getting close to pulling the trigger.

My SourD's, flowered as a 6" untopped clone, during the last week of stretch and the following 2 weeks(days 21-42, drank up so much water with blumats it was crazy. 18 3gal smart pots were going through a Brute trash can of nutes every 4 days, lol. Each plant was gulping down 1/2 gallon of water every day for three weeks. These plants went from 6" clones to 25-33" monsters, 2.5 - 5 oz bangers. In turn, after day 42(ish) the plants would take over a week to drain the Brute Reservoir.

giving the plants exactly what they want and HOW they want it is the key. DHF has been instrumental in the way he repeats over and over the value of a well dialed-in environment. My humidity is always 50-65%, temps never above 80, nighttime temps never below 75 degrees(this is UTRA-KEY), 2X exhaust/intake(maybe 3X) and tons of circulation inside the grow is key.

it is crazy how at around day 42 these sour D's just slow down nearly 50% on their water intake, but the buds triple in size between days 40-50, no joke.

rbdf

 

[Mister_D]

Gmax - Your plants look to on the verge of overfed already, can't recommend you try and push them at this point. Like fred's has been saying for years, less is more..... I have literally grown thousands of plants, and once I quit pushing the nutes so hard my yields went up and problems with lockout, burn etc stopped, I was saving money on nutes (small expense to most but when you buy nutes by the barrel......), bugs love stressed out plants (i.e ones with lock out and nute burn ). It's a hard mentality to get away from, as it seems less nutes, less yield, but that simply isn't the case. Try it, you like it

 

[GMax]

Yes healthy plants drink like crazy! That's why it's important to have a good dehuey too... cause when they're sucking up water, they're dumping it out into the air too... Luckily I have a severe root aphid infestation so I don't have the problems that you're experiencing.



Keep up the good work. The water isn't just disappearing. The plants are drinking it.

thanks bobble good point....i havent had to use my dehuey yet in my new flowering room.. my humidity all last week has been between 55-65%..i told myself i can handle it creeping up to 65 at night but if it ever went over that i would bust out a dehuey.... still waiting

i really hope you get the aphids under control

Yeah, they are definitely drinking up that water. A lot of the water clings to the roots once the mister stops spraying. I have really been thinking about doing an aero vert donut run in my 1200w vert room, getting close to pulling the trigger.

My SourD's, flowered as a 6" untopped clone, during the last week of stretch and the following 2 weeks(days 21-42, drank up so much water with blumats it was crazy. 18 3gal smart pots were going through a Brute trash can of nutes every 4 days, lol. Each plant was gulping down 1/2 gallon of water every day for three weeks. These plants went from 6" clones to 25-33" monsters, 2.5 - 5 oz bangers. In turn, after day 42(ish) the plants would take over a week to drain the Brute Reservoir.

giving the plants exactly what they want and HOW they want it is the key. DHF has been instrumental in the way he repeats over and over the value of a well dialed-in environment. My humidity is always 50-65%, temps never above 80, nighttime temps never below 75 degrees(this is UTRA-KEY), 2X exhaust/intake(maybe 3X) and tons of circulation inside the grow is key.

it is crazy how at around day 42 these sour D's just slow down nearly 50% on their water intake, but the buds triple in size between days 40-50, no joke.

rbdf

thanks rbdf..you sharing your experience was very helpful, and exactly what i was looking for ... i think i am experiencing the same thing with the drinking spikes.. with 48 plants and 50gal rez that only equals out to a gallon per plant so i guess it woudnt be hard for them to drink that all in a day or so...would rather have them drinking heavily than not at all

i have been trying to follow freds gospel.. my temps have been steady between 70-77 day and night...humidity been 55-65%....Co2 levels in check..i think i need to add more fans to circulate air...i wish they had ones like the plain black ones (marlos sticky) that can be mounted straight up, but they oscillated

i would be first in line if you pulled the trigger on the aero donut... i be watching for it and here to help

Gmax - Your plants look to on the verge of overfed already, can't recommend you try and push them at this point. Like fred's has been saying for years, less is more..... I have literally grown thousands of plants, and once I quit pushing the nutes so hard my yields went up and problems with lockout, burn etc stopped, I was saving money on nutes (small expense to most but when you buy nutes by the barrel......), bugs love stressed out plants (i.e ones with lock out and nute burn ). It's a hard mentality to get away from, as it seems less nutes, less yield, but that simply isn't the case. Try it, you like it

thanks D.. you are right, less is more.. especially in a recirculating hydro setup... i used to be religious to less is more... this entire grow my ppms have been higher than i usually take them..but they are still low compared to what most feed but my first few grows with my old system, i didnt use as much nutes and i was having great results..but back then i was growing Sensi Star and she was a little but more sensitive and less heavy on the nutes..i think next round i am gonna go a little lighter on the nutes since they get feed with every watering

when i started growing SB she ate a lot more than the Sensi..SB is heavier feeder

as far as the overfertilization...if you are refering to the green-ness of the plants, that is part of the SB kush trait...she has always grown dark green leaves even with light nutes..but i think you are right though, to change or not to change the rez could be a make or break decision

had to dig through my gallery but look in this old picture...this is Sensi Star and Sour Bubble sharing a rez..even when i was following "less is more" recipe



can you tell which is which???

i might just give it a few more days before i change it, so if i do change it and it bad decision i can just flush it, and learn my lesson for next round...definately looking into that bluelab soon though

thanks bro

 

[Mister_D]

as far as the overfertilization...if you are refering to the green-ness of the plants, that is part of the SB kush trait...she has always grown dark green leaves even with light nutes..but i think you are right though, to change or not to change the rez could be a make or break decision

Not just the greenness, which is only a partial indicator. As you mentioned some strains are naturally a dark green color. What I was mainly refering to is the slight claw that is starting as well as the burnt leaf tips. You said you were 14 days from harvest correct? That is not a time where the plant is using alot of nute, so pushing them higher is especially counterproductive. It's true that some plants are just hogs and need a higher EC in general to keep them happy, less is more is subjective to the plant being grown. The basic idea is that just because a plant can take more nutes without burning to death, doesn't mean that it will yield more as a result. I have found my best yields/quality by using the proper ratio of nutes in the lowest concentration that the plant remains deficiency free. In terms of EC that is usually between .8-1.5, or 400-750 ppm @.5 conversion. Ideal concentration varies based on the plant and nute delivery system.

 

[GMax]

Not just the greenness, which is only a partial indicator. As you mentioned some strains are naturally a dark green color. What I was mainly refering to is the slight claw that is starting as well as the burnt leaf tips. You said you were 14 days from harvest correct? That is not a time where the plant is using alot of nute, so pushing them higher is especially counterproductive. It's true that some plants are just hogs and need a higher EC in general to keep them happy, less is more is subjective to the plant being grown. The basic idea is that just because a plant can take more nutes without burning to death, doesn't mean that it will yield more as a result. I have found my best yields/quality by using the proper ratio of nutes in the lowest concentration that the plant remains deficiency free. In terms of EC that is usually between .8-1.5, or 400-750 ppm @.5 conversion. Ideal concentration varies based on the plant and nute delivery system.

some real good info...you are right i definately do seem to remember getting better yeilds when i used less nutes...my reasoning then was because it was a recirculating rez and frequent sprays so it was eating constantly (like you said the delivery system makes difference) it seemed to easy to overdo is and harder to underdo it...dont know why i ever strayed away from that...especially now that i am spending way more $$ on nutes

as far as the plants,i looked back to my pics from last night to see what you meant...now i know you cant see well enough to spot burnt tips in the whole room photo but i looked at the second one (closeup) and i do see what does appear to be a burnt tip in the upper background...usually if i get burnt tips they start as bleached first and i have been watching for that but havent seen any yet , so hopefully that is just a rogue leaf...

now if you are getting a claw feeling from the third pic that it might be an illusion... without the screen these plants would tilt forward but the screen holds them so they go out a few inches then straight up...the buds are held back, so the leaves tilt forward..and that picture was taken at chest level pointed slightly down... the claw would mean too much N but they are actually lighter then i am used to because i dont normally do a flush midflower.... however, the powder KB does have a little bit of N in it, which you dont see in most bloom boosters..it is marketed more as a "ripening agent"

my camera doesnt take pics like it used to..and they are better if i take them under cfl lighting here lately i have just been taking them under green light before lights on

the rez was full and working before i left this morning, and i didnt check on the plants...was planning on hitting up HD/lowes for some more wye peices for the next WW and then i was wanting to try to get it built for the most part tonight...or i get sidetracked by pussy and not do any of that

i do bout 90% of my grow work with the WW under green light or outside the room, but it would be way easier to build the next one during lights on..i built the first with no light schedule..

i need to take a closer look at the plants when i return and i will snap some more worthy budshots..

thanks for having my back though..dont get the impression that i am blowing off what you said, cause i am not

 

[Mister_D]

Gmax - I'm not here to tell anyone how to grow their garden. I only offer advice based on what I see. Take it or leave it makes no difference to me . Might just be the lighting, or camera, or the things you mentioned, maybe even an imbalance from adding kool bloom, but those plants look on the verge of overfed to me. However nobody knows what's going on in your garden better than you, so go with your gut.

 

[redbudduckfoot]

Yeah, GMax, you definitely want your ppm's between 450-600 with Aero-steez. if you need a refresher on aeroponics, you should check out one of Aerokrafter's many threads, all are extremely TIGHT, he yielded 3lb+ with a 1K on a mover, 18 plants. His PPM's are never above 700 if I remember correctly, and after stretch stay right below 500ppms. He gets amazing results.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=237140
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243325
hope this helps.

RBDF