Treating Cancer with Concentrates Thread

LostTribe

Well-known member
Many people around me with serious diseases and cancers are interested in using cannabis oil but have concerns about it interacting with their current medications, of which they are usually on many. They often ask for advice on such issues as their doctors play ignorant and dismissive.

From what I have read I wouldnt even tell them if I thought they would prevent me from making my own choice on my meds.
 

Chonkski

Member
Many people around me with serious diseases and cancers are interested in using cannabis oil but have concerns about it interacting with their current medications, of which they are usually on many. They often ask for advice on such issues as their doctors play ignorant and dismissive.

Yeah I agree, that always tends to be the first concern of the patient. I would like to know more about the compatibility of cannabis and other pharma medications.

It's always my guess that cannabis is okay with just about anything because it's not toxic to us in any way?
 
Many people around me with serious diseases and cancers are interested in using cannabis oil but have concerns about it interacting with their current medications, of which they are usually on many. They often ask for advice on such issues as their doctors play ignorant and dismissive.

I do know of medications that do react with cannabis oil. Not in a toxic manner, and they are very common medicines. A large percentage of medical cannabis users are prescribed these medications. Switching over and using a concentrate the patient should be made aware that vicodin/hydrocodone, percoset/oxycodone, morphene, and probably others can have a serious effect on increasing the potency of the THC buzz from the concentrate. Nobody wants a bad trip. I have had some of my patients tell me that when they were taking the concentrated cannabis oil, even in small maintenance dose size, taking their pain pill doubled the potency of the THC oil. For them to continue taking their standard size dose of oil, they had to take less of the pain pills. When they would take a pain pill, they said it felt as if they had taken another dose of oil. Didn't even feel the effects of the pill, just prevented any withdrawl from the opiate. For them to continue taking the dose of oil three times per day, they had to cut their pills in half, but it still increased the effects of the oil. This is a good thing, it surely helps being aware of what is going on and understanding why without finding out the hard way, and it helps the patient become less reliant on the pills. It can take some time, but it can work.
 

Gray Wolf

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Handbook of Experimental Pharmacy, Psychotropic Agents, Part III, has information regarding cannabis drug interactions.
 

Pangea

Active member
Thanks!

How detailed and updated is it? Do you recommend it or is it the only reference with relevant info?
 

Gray Wolf

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Thanks!

How detailed and updated is it? Do you recommend it or is it the only reference with relevant info?

Print date is 1982 with Chapter 7, or pages 119 through 158 devoted to cannabis.

It is a serious work, chock full of useful data and references. About $80, which SPR's licensed pharmacists considered worth it and I agree.

If you are only interested in the 39 pages on cannabis, it is no doubt available at a library.
 

LostTribe

Well-known member
Handbook of Experimental Pharmacy, Psychotropic Agents, Part III, has information regarding cannabis drug interactions.

This is a very interested and much needed point. The interactions among pain pills and the use of oils is definitely something that patients must take into consideration. I am sure there may be other ways that other meds interact as well.
 
This is a very interested and much needed point. The interactions among pain pills and the use of oils is definitely something that patients must take into consideration. I am sure there may be other ways that other meds interact as well.

Yes, there are other interactions.

When treating one of my cancer patients, he had an interaction with his heart medication. I had already forewarned him of this being possible, so he kept a close eye on it. He was taking 2 different medications for high blood pressure. Since he began treatment, he had to stop using one of the medications. I regret I do not recall what that medication was. All in all, he not only managed his cancer with the RSO, he also managed his high blood pressure.

I can go on and on, and get my 50 posts. I would like to note previously that I was joking around.

Another medication this patient had an interaction with when taking RSO is Xanax. I can't say whether it was positive or negative issue. I suppose it depends on the patient. This patient was taking (4) 1 mg tablets per day, which is extreme in my opinion, but I can understand why. If you ask me, he was having a nervous breakdown after learning of the cancer. What the Xanax did for him was cause him not to feel the full effects of the oil when only taking maintenance size doses (grain of rice). We suspected that the Xanax was causing him to not feel the oil. He decided to skip a couple of the pills and low and behold, he started feeling the oil effects, which he wanted to. After the treatment, he decided to continue to cut back on the Xanax. The oil has become more enjoyable, but still admits that the original hefty treatment of 1 gram per day, was mind boggling and a trip. This is an educated man who worked full time. During the treatment, he found it a challenge just to take the trash out to the curb.

Terpenes effect the oil even more intense, with an opposite effect. Especially the terpenes from cannabis that pass through the blood brain barrier. They can help your memory, lessen the intense effects of the THC, but it is a double edge sword. They also cause the THC to last twice as long. 100% longer than the terpenes effect you, based upon my personal experience.
 
Excluding high blood pressure medication, maybe we should be more concerned with beneficial interactions with other medications. Maybe other plant extracts can have a great benefit to the patients. For example: Frankincense oil which contains terpenes that cross the blood brain barrier. How does that effect cannabis oils that are missing terpenes like RSO or BHO. Oils that were processed with heat. Or even old buds that have lost their terpenes. Grows that were not treated delicately and the terpenes were lost due to too much air flow or too much heat? There are other plants out there with essential terpenes and some that have terpenes that can cross the blood brain barrier.
Essential Oil Books 2-25-15 030.jpg

My goal is to be able to treat me and my family and others to treat themselves of illness. The current medical system does not do this for me with out harsh consequences.

I'm not from a lost tribe, I am from the Potawatomi Tribe.
 
Since I can't edit.

I just thought of something that should be considered. What properties does the red oil have from the cannabis? The water soluble oil. Is there any medicinal properties? I don't know yet, but I do have a few pictures of some. I did this extraction with the bud material left over after doing an alcohol extraction for RSO. Just required some patience and water. I did it for experimental purposes, just to see.

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Just something that should be considered and looked into.
 

Gray Wolf

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Since I can't edit.

I just thought of something that should be considered. What properties does the red oil have from the cannabis? The water soluble oil. Is there any medicinal properties? I don't know yet, but I do have a few pictures of some. I did this extraction with the bud material left over after doing an alcohol extraction for RSO. Just required some patience and water. I did it for experimental purposes, just to see.

View attachment 306104 View attachment 306105

Just something that should be considered and looked into.

Yeah, I followed a QWET extraction with water at Jump 117's suggestion, and got the same extract as you did, but never found anything to do with it. It appears to be mostly wax, that was dissolved by the alcohol and brought along for the ride with the water.

We didn't have a GC at the time I ran the experiment, but I will run a sample next time and see what it is composed of.l
 
Yeah, I followed a QWET extraction with water at Jump 117's suggestion, and got the same extract as you did, but never found anything to do with it. It appears to be mostly wax, that was dissolved by the alcohol and brought along for the ride with the water.

We didn't have a GC at the time I ran the experiment, but I will run a sample next time and see what it is composed of.l

Yes, I would be very interested to see the results. What is it? and so on.
After doing some reading about essential oils and terpenes, I realize that they are oil soluble so doing an alcohol extraction you are getting the terpenes. Obviously you are losing a majority when applying heat.

Anyway, on the subject, I have only really discovered the terpenes when I came across the naturally decarbed oils. At least that is when I noticed them and felt the difference. One of the terpenes from the cannabis plant seems to be a sesquiterpene(sp), which apparently is kind of rare. One that passes through the blood brain barrier. There could be drug interactions with cannabis terpenes. It would be nice to use the GC if it is capable of identifying exactly what terpenes are in the oil even the buds. That is mentioned in the books about essential oils. Not the cannabis terpenes, but other plant terpenes and how they can interact with blood thinners and such, even replace them.

It seems like there is no end to the capabilities of the cannabis plant. Still much to learn that's for sure!

I have to say, that frankincense oil smells really good!! Apparently you can uptake terpenes just by smelling it.
 

Gray Wolf

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Yes, I would be very interested to see the results. What is it? and so on.
After doing some reading about essential oils and terpenes, I realize that they are oil soluble so doing an alcohol extraction you are getting the terpenes. Obviously you are losing a majority when applying heat.

Anyway, on the subject, I have only really discovered the terpenes when I came across the naturally decarbed oils. At least that is when I noticed them and felt the difference. One of the terpenes from the cannabis plant seems to be a sesquiterpene(sp), which apparently is kind of rare. One that passes through the blood brain barrier. There could be drug interactions with cannabis terpenes. It would be nice to use the GC if it is capable of identifying exactly what terpenes are in the oil even the buds. That is mentioned in the books about essential oils. Not the cannabis terpenes, but other plant terpenes and how they can interact with blood thinners and such, even replace them.

It seems like there is no end to the capabilities of the cannabis plant. Still much to learn that's for sure!

I have to say, that frankincense oil smells really good!! Apparently you can uptake terpenes just by smelling it.

You can uptake all the terpenes by through the nasal passages. I couched locked myself whiffing a bottle of b Myrcene.
 
You can uptake all the terpenes by through the nasal passages. I couched locked myself whiffing a bottle of b Myrcene.

Thanks, I wrote that down. Will put it on my things to order list!

The frankincense oil kind of gives me a little buzz when I sniff it. Keeping in mind, I am on maintenance doses of oil.

You wouldn't happen to know exactly what terpenes are in the marijuana would you? I am sure it varies from strain to strain, but the general terpenes and monoterpenes would be nice to know. The essential oil books I ordered mention some have interactions with certain medications. Especially terpenes that thin the blood.

I am still a beginner when it comes to essential oils. I include marijuana as an essential oil. Most people do not realize how valuable terpenes are and how much they can effect the buzz and medicinal aspects.

I just want to learn more about this. It seems to be endless.

After I have a full understanding of terpenes I want to become more educated about CBDs. Especially considering the marijuana plant has the highest variety of CBDs. I suppose the CBDs can also have an effect on medications too.

I do have a good understanding that the marijuana plant being so high in CBDs that it is a very complex plant. It is truly a gift from the Creator.
 

Gray Wolf

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Robert Clark has a good list starting on page 203 of his book Hashish.

Here is another good list.
 

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Robert Clark has a good list starting on page 203 of his book Hashish.

Here is another good list.

Thanks! This gets me pointed in the right direction.

I have a little over 1/4 oz of RSO left. I don't plan to make it again since I prefer the natural decarbing. I do want to do some experimenting with the RSO and try to add back the missing terpenes from other essential oils. I would like to see if I can get it as close to the natural decarbed oil as possible. I probably won't succeed but will be worth trying. I may discover something new. You don't know until you try.

Thanks for the book recommendation too. I just want to learn more and experience more.
 

Gray Wolf

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Thanks! This gets me pointed in the right direction.

I have a little over 1/4 oz of RSO left. I don't plan to make it again since I prefer the natural decarbing. I do want to do some experimenting with the RSO and try to add back the missing terpenes from other essential oils. I would like to see if I can get it as close to the natural decarbed oil as possible. I probably won't succeed but will be worth trying. I may discover something new. You don't know until you try.

Thanks for the book recommendation too. I just want to learn more and experience more.

Thanks for the insight GG!

A little insight into the meaning of the name RSO locally, just to put things in perspective! It means oil extracted using naphtha to extract and a rice cooker to purge.

Typically still containing residual solvent beyond FDA 5000 PPM limits, for even Class III solvents, but actually typically containing Class I solvents like benzene from the Varnish and Paint Makers "pharmaceutical grade" Rick recommends, and which the FDA says should be avoided and limited to 2 ppm in the best of circumstances.

Kudos and accolades to Rick for his contributions and sacrifices, because we are with out question indebted to him for suffering the sacrifices for leading the way.

Using the term RSO does present problems in communication however, because I don't advocate the use of naphtha for extraction, due to the carcinogenic nature of some of its constituents.

If we are indeed talking about RSO extracted using Naphtha, I recommend not using it, unless death is your other alternative.

No firm fixed data, just the tongue in cheek reluctance to tempt my immune system with other carcinogens, most especially if it is already struggling with what it already has?

If we are using RSO as a term to simply and rightfully honor Rick, may I suggest that it is a nice gesture, but only adds confusion on this forum at this stage of evolution in cannabis concentrates extraction and processing.

Extracting with carcinogens because there is no other available alternative at a given patients snapshot in time, is a different issue than the situation most of us find ourselves in, and what I personally recommend if there are more salubrious alternatives.

May we agree that by what ever name we hail undeniably hot Mary, it is she of whom we speak, and the most effective process of delivering her uncontaminated charms is what we seek?

In that line of thought, may we not unintentionally direct noobes toward Rick's Napha process, by including concentrates that were used several thousand years before Rick, or more salubrious ones formulated since then, under the generic term RSO?
 
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Gray Wolf

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Some keen books to check out, is The Chemistry of Essential Oils Made Simple, by Stewart, Perfume and flavor materials of natural origin, by Arctander and set of The Essential Oils by Guenther.

Also Handbook of Experimental Pharmacy, Part III.
 
I have never used naphtha. When I first saw the video and then looked into naphtha, it looked too scary to me. He also mentioned that 99% isopropyl alcohol would be an acceptable alternative so that is what I chose to use.

Using or not using the term RSO seems to be an ongoing debate on most forums. I never looked at it by your perspective before Gray Wolf. I, like you, would not recommend the use of naphtha in making a concentrate. The only solvent I choose to use for extracting nowadays is 200 proof ethanol or 192 proof polish vodka.

Call it RSO, iso concentrate, ethyl concentrate, what have you. For me the term RSO is more of a process not ingredients. The process of heat decarbing a concentrate utilizing a rice cooker. If it is more accommodating to not use that term, I'm okay with that. Too bad I can't edit my introduction... I will go back and clear up the fact that I do NOT use naphtha.

Either way, I am sticking with my ND Sap :)

Thanks for the additional book suggestions!! It never hurts to learn more.
 
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