Tracking ISP's?

[JJScorpio]

How secure is something like Tor, the free proxy program ? I've heard people say that even when behind certain proxy's, if somebody (the authorities) really, really wanted to track you down for some reason, they could.

Here's a link that will check your proxy. Try it and then turn off the proxy and see if it gives you a different number.

http://www.lagado.com/proxy-test

 

[greenhead]

Here's a link that will check your proxy. Try it and then turn off the proxy and see if it gives you a different number.

http://www.lagado.com/proxy-test

Thanks for the link. I tried it both with and without me being behind a proxy.

With the proxy on, I still received this message. Is this a good thing or not ?

This request appears NOT to have come via a proxy.

When I switch over to the proxy, the IP address and country is definitely different, but that site didn't detect me as being behind a proxy, even though I was.

 

[acgreenjeans]

I can tell you that from a conversation I had with an FBI agent*, the FBI subpoenas backbones like AT&T for kiddie porn crimes. But that is with a specific target. I would assume the same would be for the DEA if they were investigating a person. Don't go under investigation, and no worries.

*I don't normally chat it up with FBI agents, but he was a speaker at a security conference I went to and the topic went to "how do you protect your kids from online predators".

 

[JJScorpio]

Thanks for the link. I tried it both with and without me being behind a proxy.

With the proxy on, I still received this message. Is this a good thing or not ?

This request appears NOT to have come via a proxy.

When I switch over to the proxy, the IP address and country is definitely different, but that site didn't detect me as being behind a proxy, even though I was.

As long as the ISP is different there is no problem.....

 

[Tyler Durden]

How secure is something like Tor, the free proxy program ? I've heard people say that even when behind certain proxy's, if somebody (the authorities) really, really wanted to track you down for some reason, they could.

Again, few articles on wired dot com regarding it. Sort of a false security blanket. Yes, your traffic bounces around on servers encrypted, but once it exits it's open for anyone to read. Whoever's running the exit node can scoop out whatever they want fairly easily. Personally, I'd never use it for anything where you'll need to enter a password or your credit card number. Popular opinion seems to be quite a few of the Tor servers are run by either criminals or govt agencies. Or that possibility exists, I should say.

Personally, I always wonder if things like Tor aren't simply honey pots. After all, it was developed by the Naval Research Laboratory. Again, not trying to spread FUD, but how can we really be sure this isn't simply a way to route people who are seeking anonymity straight through to Virginia, making it even easier to sniff packets? There's no encryption that's publicly available (that you or I could go download) that they can't crack, or didn't develop themselves. And Tor's kinda useless unless you're encrypting before you hit the Tor servers. *From my most basic understanding, anyway, hopefully someone more technically proficient will clarify that. And one of the articles I was reading suggested that if you are using encryption, that could get you red-flagged even easier. And like I said, pretty sure they can crack it. Or who knows? Maybe that's just what they want us to think.

Probably great for keeping anonymous on message boards, etc. But as far as Bygg Bruthur goes, as I said, if they want you, they'll get you. "sneak & peeks" have pretty much done away with the 4th amendment. They can basically break into your home and find evidence, then get a real warrant based on the evidence they found. Brave new world, friends.

Few months back there was a big stink about the NSL's too (Nashonal Sekuritee Letters, misspelling intentional, you never know). Forget the actual numbers but since 9-11 they've sent NSL's out in the thousands, and the stink was a pretty high percentage of them were bogus. No need for a warrant for your ISP, just label you a terrorist and send them a memo, they'll cough your info right up.

Hell, maybe I am spreading FUD. But given our hobby, FUD's probably a good thing. Use scroogle to do your questionable searches, and try to stay off the radar as much as possible is my advice. Anonymity tools are useful, but there's no real guarantees these days, at least not in the so-called "land of the free".

(got so paranoid just typing this out had to go back and misspell things just in case, never know what'll get you flagged these days. how sad is that?)

On a side note, a completely unrelated side note, Firefox's spell checker doesn't think "whoever's" is a word, yet has no problem with "kinda".

 

[HerbGlaze]

Well.. they have absolutely NO PROOF of any of you growing.. because they dont want to waste there time on use they dont care.. there into finding 100-200 plant grows and if your that stupid to post such a big grow OP.. then serves you right.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Well, I'm pretty new to this, but I'd bet there's more than a few people sitting in jail right now who simply got careless thinking "nah, they'll never worry about little old me". After all, we're talking about the same country who still raids medical facilities in California where it's legal.

 

[Guest]

I'd still like to know the site whether the owners actually turned someone in or not,threats are enough to make me stay far away.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

I have an online friend who was recently threatened by the Administration of another site and he has now disappeared. If you're growing and showing pics it's a good idea to stay away from sites that are located in the US or Canada. .

I wonder what site you're talking about?

If the owners of the site were to get upset with you, they can simply do a IPS search and contact the police in that jurisdiction and hand your pictures and posts over to them

Isn't that a bit of a leap there? Can and do are two entirely different things.

I see you're backing off a bit, and you remain a bit ambiguous as to what site, though you seem to have left clues, but by the above logic (mad admin calls cops) wouldn't that still be possible by an Administration and site anywhere, and not just the US or Canada?
There are telephones these days, as well as computers and email. It is therefore possible, no?

But before engaging in hearsay and something that you've obviously backed off from a bit in later posts in this thread, wouldn't it be more prudent to get your facts straight prior to posting and scaring people? It's irresponsible to engage in speculation with groups (cannaphiles) who are already hunted and skittish to begin with.

With all due respect, JJ.

 

[igrowdadankest]

The gov doesnt do anything by the book have you not heard of the bush admin. thats making the north american union.With that being said yes they can and they can do it very easily.However they most likely wont do it to you.I use tor and vidalia look it up on google and download it.

 

[JJScorpio]

.

I see you're backing off a bit, and you remain a bit ambiguous as to what site, though you seem to have left clues, but by the above logic (mad admin calls cops) wouldn't that still be possible by an Administration and site anywhere, and not just the US or Canada?
There are telephones these days, as well as computers and email. It is therefore possible, no?

But before engaging in hearsay and something that you've obviously backed off from a bit in later posts in this thread, wouldn't it be more prudent to get your facts straight prior to posting and scaring people? It's irresponsible to engage in speculation with groups (cannaphiles) who are already hunted and skittish to begin with.
With all due respect, JJ.

I left no clues to any site, and for you to say that with all of 23 posts, I guess you know the site I was referring to. I stated what I said due to the nature of the post, as it could very easily happen.

IC prides itself in the security of growers. There is nothing wrong with urging people to use a proxy, and administration here lets that be known. As for you saying there is no less danger frequenting a site located in Canada or the United States, compared to one overseas, I respectfully disagree. The US and Canada have a history of working together. I have yet to see the Canadians or the Americans work together with an overseas Country and charge people with pot related crimes.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

Don't pull elitist post count stuff, please. I'm not attacking you here, nor will I. And for disclosure, I'm JJJ. I'm not hiding, I'm just not allowed that name here for some reason.

You said USA or Canada. There are only a handfull I'm aware of in Canada, even fewer in the US. I also know you have a fixation with a certain site based in Canada, or did you forget the thread about IP logging started here about that? My inkling is you were speaking about that site due to the sudden disappearance of a poster I happened to like too, but I'll be happy to say it's purely circumstantial evidence (my inkling based on your cryptic comments here), which is to say speculation and not, therefore, with any authority.

But, immaterial really, let's not degrade the point I was trying to make, and you very well may not have been speaking about that site anyways.

IC prides itself in the security of growers. There is nothing wrong with urging people to use a proxy, and administration here lets that be known.

And that is to be commended.
As does our site and every other one I've frequented for this topic, in all points quoted above. My issue isn't with IC's intent, it's a fine site, and it has a lovely community that partakes in it. My point was to challenge what appears to be a leading statement you made:

That's whats great about this site, it's in overseas Country. I have an online friend who was recently threatened by the Administration of another site and he has now disappeared. If you're growing and showing pics it's a good idea to stay away from sites that are located in the US or Canada.

Firstly, "overseas" is a very provincial way of saying it; very American that is. To a European it's not overseas, and we're actually the ones "over the pond"
Secondly, and let's face facts, this is a site that is paid for by a seed entity that ships to the US (this point was made at another site, but is still valid for this discussion I believe) which would indeed put it more on the radar than a site in the US or Canada that does not have any ties to seed dealing. Don't get me wrong, I don't have issue with that, I'm merely stating that if we're both going to try and make intelligent points to the viewership, and to assure them how safe they are here, but not, say, at sites in Canada and the US, this is a critical piece of information missing from your point. Is that fair to say? Yes, no?

Also, you didn't answer my question posed in my quote in your above post: "by the above logic (mad admin calls cops) wouldn't that still be possible by an Administration and site anywhere, and not just the US or Canada?
There are telephones these days, as well as computers and email. It is therefore possible, no?"

In light of these somewhat rhetorical questions, would it then be fair of me and others to suggest that telling people to use proxies is wise, and that to adhere to the rules of growing (i.e., no telling anyone, no showing in the real, no associating with questionable people, not trusting just anyone online no matter how nice they may appear to be, how honest they may appear to be, how helpfull and so on) is wise, but that perhaps, absent actual facts about busts and so on - which you yourself seem to be holding close to your chest but making large sweeping inuendo in doing so - is NOT helpful in an already cagy atmosphere?

Is there any gain, other than for yourself and this site (in your mind at least) to "warn" people to stay away from sites in the US and Canada? Firstly, wouldn't a proxy there, if it works here, work just as well? Secondly, wouldn't the argument I made above (seed selling connections versus non-seed selling connections in a site) negate the need to even make mention of "other sites"?

Again, I say this with respect. I'm not here to shit on IC, no sir. I'm not here to challenge YOU, but to challenge the input you made in this thread.

As for you saying there is no less danger frequenting a site located in Canada or the United States, compared to one overseas, I respectfully disagree. The US and Canada have a history of working together. I have yet to see the Canadians or the Americans work together with an overseas Country and charge people with pot related crimes.

This is an interesting point, but I believe you're being naive. Firstly, the FBI has access anywhere it chooses. Think terrorism. The DEA tends to as well. Think Afghanistan and poppies or Colombia and Coca (nevermind it's failing and futile, this idiotic WOD).
Also, it might make sense to understand the reach of both agencies and the current American attempts to create a nexus of terror and drugs.
Whether you think it's true or not is not the point, it is happening. "overseas" in a global world and economy doesn't mean what it used to.

And further, going into the dreaded PoM topic, wasn't the connection at our site trying to be made that he, a resident of the UK (ergo "overseas") connected to the DEA somehow? You can't have it both ways to suit the argument. It either is or isn't.

Finally, and I know I'm overstaying my welcome and belaboring the point, in our mutual interest in keeping our hobby and fellow hobbyists (and more importantly, the medically needy) safe and flush with green, doesn't it make sense to not add to the confusion and innuendo and deal with the base facts without introducing superfluous and somewhat frightening comments like "I'd stay away from the US and Canada"?

How many of us, from the US and Canada grow and will grow just fine even as we are part of these various internet sites? The answer is obvious in the numbers here and there and everywhere else.

Have a good evening, JJ.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

Before you go and delete him ^ users should read and understand who they're dealing with in JJScorpio. We may be pains in the arse at times and our sites haven't had a happy relationship, but we're being honest and seeking honest answers.

Realize that any censoring of this stuff, this thread in particular, will only go to suggest that there is something to hide, and it's not our voices but perhaps the content of the utterances that is bothersome that they need to "protect" you, adults with minds and the ability to follow logic and linear thinking, from.
It will not be the usual "this site is only about cannabis", as letting JJS continue to post this stuff here but silencing dissent disproves that, doesn't it?
It will be agenda and seeking to control the flow of information and shutting down an open discussion. Think before you follow.

 

[JJScorpio]

First of all, I never named a site. I simply stated facts that I had been sent from members regarding the importance of protecting their ISP address.

Because Gadabout decided to discuss my children, let me straighten him out. I have kids of my own, as did my wife when we were married. I commend Gad on his class. One of us has four of our own, the other has three. In some posts I discuss the boys, in other posts I discuss all of them together. That's the way it is when people remarry and have kids of their own. I'm glad Gad found it necessary to involve them. I guess everything is fair game to him.

I also found it amusing that Gad felt the need to belittle my wife because she smoked resin before we were married. I guess some women would buy a bag before worrying if the kids had what they needed. My wife decided to put the kids first. I'm very proud of the way she cared for her kids before we met. It's one of the things I admire most about her. She had a very good job when we met, but things get tight for a single parent raising children on their own. I was about to say I'm surprised Gad would attack her, but I'm not. I will say he would never say any of this to my face. Let him continue to show what he and his site are about.

I'm not going to continue this childish drama with Gad. Obviously he has something to hide as he felt the need to defend himself when his site hadn't even been mentioned. Thank you for showing the members of ICMag why they frequent here instead of your site. Thank you again. You're now free to return to your hole. Oh, I forgot, my wife says hi.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

You're waffling, JJScorpio.

All well and good about Gad, how about addressing my questions on post 32 here.
Please don't sidestep, I believe we all need to see how you answer questions that have nothing to do with the dramas of you and Gad and everything to do with the security and IP and proxy issues.

 

[Chester]

Hey!! That thread about IP address logging is gone!!

I used to find it by sorting Tokers Den by hits (It was over 10,000)

So it's definitely been deleted!

What's up with that?? Isn't security important here??

 

[R03]

Hey!! That thread about IP address logging is gone!!

I used to find it by sorting Tokers Den by hits (It was over 10,000)

So it's definitely been deleted!

What's up with that?? Isn't security important here??

Big Brother is watching.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

There were none that were so blind that would not see.

JJS, I'm waiting. You had the time to post up a huge post at PG, and you had the time to post your response above, so...what gives?

 

[JJScorpio]

First of all, I would never log onto that site. Once bitten, twice shy. Secondly, when someone comes here and discusses both my wife and my children in fabricated private messages, that's not only a violation of the sites policies, but also dangerous to my wife and children. I think Gads post more than shows what he's capable of. I think his post should be left in this thread so people can see what type of person he is. It goes way beyond paranoid. Everyone knows the history behind, Gad, Gypsy and myself. It's been way to long for Gad to continue this obsession. He needs to let it go. I had no intention of naming any site until I recieved more information, and if it turned out to be nothing, it would have been the end of it. He got way to defensive. It's even sadder that the owner of a site would publicly post private messages, real or fabricated. He's obviously not only a disturbed individual, but also a threat to anyone that disagrees with him. To not only fabricate the most of that dribble, but to find someone to post information here regarding my family in a negative manner speaks volumes of his integrity and morals.

Discuss Gad or anyone else you like, but find someone else to play. Discussing my wife and children is going way over the line.

 

[MacrowaveOven]

I'm not talking about your wife and kids, JJ.
I'm asking you to address post 32 (again). You saw fit to answer my first post in both authoratative and condescending fashion, but not my followup? Ignore what comes after that then, just answer those questions. They have nothing to do with PG, they have nothing to do with Gad or your fine family.

Or are you just buying time 'till this thread goes bye-bye?