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top of the heap to third world status in one generation

moose eater

moose eater

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h.h. said:
As you said, it wasn’t part of the agreement. They were negotiating. You ever bought a car? In Bakers words, it was a “what if” proposition, which actually makes sense , since their was nothing Put up for compensation. Since the Polish revolt, the USSR was not in a good position to deal. We wouldn’t have given it all up for nothing. Besides, we don’t have absolute control of NATO, nor do we have authority to decide what Ukraine, Finland et al does.
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Ukraine, and soon to be Belarus, are what happens when others play chess games at another's expense, in another's back yard. And that's been going on for a long while, as you point out.

My surrogate family in the Yukon Territory includes 1st Generation Ukrainian Canadians, whose parents came from the Old Country. They have living(?) family there right now..

I'm not in favor of the casualties or crimes going on from either vantage point (and both teams are committing war attrocities)..

Nor am I a Putin fan, nor a Biden or Trump fan for that matter.

But what's come to pass there has our fingerprints on it, too. Not just Putin's.

Did you follow the decade the US worked with OPEC to glut the oil market, affecting both Russia, and, from a first-hand vantage point, Alaska? Have you considered what might have been the motive there? The outcomes for Russia at that point? The reasons behind that? Conscious or coincidental?

Our State Dept's less visible folks have rarely had altrusim at the heart of their efforts, if ever. And in the end, unfortunately, they stay relatively carnage-free..

At the moment, there's regular folks on both sides of that border suffering through outrageous realities that most of the population in this very sheltered Country has never even conceptualized, let alone lived through, and neither of those generalized groups deserves any of this.

But hey, if successful, think of the strategic positioning Ukraine offers to her 'allies'.

 
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moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
I considered this later as well; and no, it's an apples and oranges kinda' thing, that still centers on honor and integrity in agreements.

Alaska permits one-party consent recording of both telephone and personal communications (a bit stickier on the phone part, if considering Federal law, but also allowing for up close in-person discussions to be recorded/witnessed).

And here, verbal contracts are actionable. If it's on tape/video, or there's witnesses to the promises or statements, or both, and a person has stated they would provide condition, circumstance, or product 'X', and condition, circumstance, or product 'x' is legal, they can be held acocuntable if they fail to provide that.

Just a thought over frozen, domestic, fat, organic blueberries.
 
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Gry

Gry

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Take your twisted Putin fixation down the road. You obviously are unable to
reconcile yourself to the simple fact that we did control and were responsible for
what took took place there post WWII.
Several hundred agents were sent into Russia from the Ukraine as a result of the Gehlan outfit.
Gehlan was well plugged in to Bandera and his followers, a rabid Nazi loving fascist responsible for slaughter and massacre of Ukrainians, Poles and Jews on a scale that staggers.

Once Reinhard Gehlan was gone, we put in more of similar, the idea being to maintain pressure on the Soviet Union, with the result being that the Ukraine has become known as one
of the most corrupt places on earth, with the continued suffering of the people of
Ukraine as a result.
This continued right on up to placing the likes of Manafort in there, to set up the next phase
of nonstop conflict for the people that live there to suffer under.
The place has been a haven for fascists and Nazis which the agency fostered and
financed since the second world war.
Your inability to acknowledge what the population of Ukraine has suffered exceeds
my definition of obscenity.
 
h.h.

h.h.

Active member
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moose eater said:
Ukraine, and soon to be Belarus, are what happens when others play chess games at another's expense, in another's back yard. And that's been going on for a long while, as you point out.

My surrogate family in the Yukon Territory includes 1st Generation Ukrainian Canadians, whose parents came from the Old Country. They have living(?) family there right now..

I'm not in favor of the casualties or crimes going on from either vantage point (and both teams are committing war attrocities)..

Nor am I a Putin fan, nor a Biden or Trump fan for that matter.

But what's come to pass there has our fingerprints on it, too. Not just Putin's.

Did you follow the decade the US worked with OPEC to glut the oil market, affecting both Russia, and, from a first-hand vantage point, Alaska? Have you considered what might have been the motive there? The outcomes for Russia at that point? The reasons behind that? Conscious or coincidental?

Our State Dept's less visible folks have rarely had altrusim at the heart of their efforts, if ever. And in the end, unfortunately, they stay relatively carnage-free..

At the moment, there's regular folks on both sides of that border suffering through outrageous realities that most of the population in this very sheltered Country has never even conceptualized, let alone lived through, and neither of those generalized groups deserves any of this.

But hey, if successful, think of the strategic positioning Ukraine offers to her 'allies'.

Click to expand...

We did push our oil as did Russia. While I may not be in favor of it all, that’s the way the world works. Greed everywhere. We pretend, but none of us is above it all. Even the bernie cult.
 
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Gry

Gry

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Not only do you feel that you can see in the heart of another, but you can
tell propaganda from that which is honestly presented.
Madam Lulu must tremble in your presence.
 
Tudo

Tudo

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2bq4woiwamiq.jpg
 
h.h.

h.h.

Active member
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Gry said:
What I post was released by the DoD. It is our history.
Your claim it is sourced from Putin pegs you as a troubled soul.
Click to expand...
Sourced with prejudice. There’s no “trouble” with my soul. Only with your pickings. I’m sorry America treated you wrong. Show me on the doll where it hurts.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
h.h. said:
Sourced with prejudice. There’s no “trouble” with my soul. Only with your pickings. I’m sorry America treated you wrong. Show me on the doll where it hurts.
Click to expand...
How do you know it's not sourced with heart-break for the offenses incurred by the American Dream, often committed by those who swore an oath to protect that Dream? Like watching a child lie or behave their way into a lost cause and self-destruction of purpose?

Your cynicism and awkward sense of nationalism, as expressed in your posts quite often, leaves others in its wake who are perhaps misidentified by your lenses as something other than what they are.

Those of us who grew up with betrayal at all levels in life, and knew it, lived in it, identified it, with related dreams smoking in destruction, sometimes take a different view of further offenses against what those dreams might have been in a more honest or better world. Some of us still cry at the Star Spangled Banner, or, more often/aptly, during the singing and playing of 'America the Beautiful,' but it's often not for the same reasons the nationalists might be weeping or cheering.

It's also why some of us no longer stand for the Pledge of Allegiance or the Star Spangled Banner at meetings or ball games, or why 'we' don't buy Chinese-made American Flag lapel pins or fly those flags on our vehicles and bumper stickers, like both sides of the opportunistic, disingenuous aisle in D.C. tend to sport all the time, like shirt-sleeve Christians wanting everyone to know how patriotic they are, when most have no clue what so ever what the term even means..

It's not due to disability all the time, or hatred. and it's not due to physical disability that we don't stand; though disability of some types may be involved.

*Edit: With the second video, I recommend forwarding to about the 12-minute 15-second mark or so, +/-. Speaks volumes, even absent the religious angle or aspect. A beautiful thing, from people who descended in many cases from those who were not treated according to the tenets of this once-Great Nation. They want that dream too, I'd bet, and I'm wagering some of them still weep for similar reasons.




 
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Gry

Gry

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h.h. said:
Sourced with prejudice. There’s no “trouble” with my soul. Only with your pickings. I’m sorry America treated you wrong. Show me on the doll where it hurts.
Click to expand...
Sourced with Prejudice- the only prejudice is your refusal to acknowledge our history
in that area post WWII- which I have refuted each and every time you have done so.
One can infer from your doll based response it must have been uncomfortable for you.
 
moose eater

moose eater

Well-known member
Gry said:
hartmannreport.com

GOP Treason Is Stalking Democracies Around the World

And it’s damn well past time that the people who conceived and ordered and facilitated the execution of this crime against all the rest of us are held to account in a meaningful way
hartmannreport.com hartmannreport.com
Click to expand...
The US has been interfering in South American and Central American elections and governments for well over 50 years.

Allende'/Pinochet? Samosa?? Baby Doc? Others?

What would our State Dept's & DoD's response be if foreign entities sponsored or facilitated coups in the US that displaced duly elected administrations? How many bombs would fall, bullets be fired, or participants be executed?

Last I checked Kissinger, Nixon, Reagan and others lived to ripe old ages as free people, despite some wanting to interrogate them, and having had active arrest or detention orders for some of them in southern nations.

American Exceptionalism, indeed.
 
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Gry

Gry

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