Too MUCH compost tea?

[Microbeman]

This issue does not seem to be as black and white as you say. that is why I am buying a microscope so I can check the results for myself, and post them for all to see. I see these lump statements being made by people all over the place. However almost all of these people do not own a microscope, and are repeating things second hand.

Remeber playing the telephone game when you were a kid?

It starts out with purple car, and ends with neo-nazi skin head, gang bangers bustin' caps in the barrio, while listening to Celine Dion.

I believe there to be a happy place where the leachate, and the ACT can come together, and live in harmony. The only way to find this place is through a microscope.

I could be very wrong. regardless of the results it will be a very educational process.

I knew this thread was going to be a good one.

For the record, I wish to state that the 'story' about guanos inhibiting microbial growth/division did not come from me. What I did state is that quanos are usually not composted and therefore including them is like making a manure/compost tea.

I have never tested quanos mostly because I've never seen the sense in spending money on the product. I have no doubt that looking down the microscope tube we will see bacterial/archaeal life (& probably fungi) and division using guanos or horse or cow manure or diesel. This is not the point.

The point is to grow out/multiply a microbial nutrient cycling consortium. Ideally one is looking for the 'set' of microorganisms existent in compost, soil or vermicompost. Adding ingredients with the thought that the ingredients will promote plant growth is likely counter-productive, as that ingredient will likely serve to feed or stifle microbial development.

If it stifles the microbes, then positive results observed will likely be from that ingredient alone. In that case one would be better off just using that ingredient and skip the tea making process.

One such ingredient [in my observations so far] is humic acid. Also please be aware that adding anything to a finished ACT is usually counter-productive (except 'maybe' in miniscule amounts)

I do know some people who have used leachate in ACT with no negative results. No big boogy-man comes out if there are some anaerobes in the mix. This can be a good thing in the long run.

I believe that it is very difficult to make compost tea which will harm your plants/soil so long as it really is compost tea and has not been brewing long enough to develop pathogens (eg. fusarium). It is however, possible to harm plants by overdosing ingredients.

I have stated all of this previously in this forum.

 

[Toes.]

...The point is to grow out/multiply a microbial nutrient cycling consortium...

You the man, Microbeman

 

[heady blunts]

The point is to grow out/multiply a microbial nutrient cycling consortium. Ideally one is looking for the 'set' of microorganisms existent in compost, soil or vermicompost. Adding ingredients with the thought that the ingredients will promote plant growth is likely counter-productive, as that ingredient will likely serve to feed or stifle microbial development.

If it stifles the microbes, then positive results observed will likely be from that ingredient alone. In that case one would be better off just using that ingredient and skip the tea making process.

One such ingredient [in my observations so far] is humic acid. Also please be aware that adding anything to a finished ACT is usually counter-productive (except 'maybe' in miniscule amounts)

I do know some people who have used leachate in ACT with no negative results. No big boogy-man comes out if there are some anaerobes in the mix. This can be a good thing in the long run.

I believe that it is very difficult to make compost tea which will harm your plants/soil so long as it really is compost tea and has not been brewing long enough to develop pathogens (eg. fusarium). It is however, possible to harm plants by overdosing ingredients.

I have stated all of this previously in this forum.

BOOM. this is why i read everything this guy writes.

 

[Toes.]

The point is... guanos in the soil instead of the tea?

 

[Microbeman]

What I find interesting is there is literally only a handful of people doing research on this subject. There is still so much to learn.

Also the people that are very well versed on the subject, ingram, mm, and a few others do not dumb down any of their research for the common man. I feel that is the reason why their research has spread more slowly than it should have.

Read through Ingram's field guides, and then remember why you did not go to college.

How much more simple can it be than 'protozoa eat bacteria and poop out ionic form (available) nutrients', illustrated with live video footage of the microorganisms involved?

How can it be dumbed down from there? As a biologist I can say 'look there is a robin in that tree; use your binoculars' or
'look there is a ciliate cleaning off the fungal hyphae; look down the microscope tube' (or click on the video link). There is no difference in complexity between the two.

BTW. not Ingram; Ingham

 

[Microbeman]

Heres a tea recipe i have used for years, i have stop reading up on the subject matter years ago after getting this ...

Some comments about this recipe;

Adding mycorrhizal spores is likely ineffective as they (endomycorrhizal) do not even sprout unless proximal to roots. That the author has indicated that the hyphae can be destroyed by aeration indicates, not only ignorance concerning mycorrhizal fungi but the nature of hyphal growth in ACT. Please see the video clips of hyphae in ACT on my webpage.
http://microbeorganics.com/18hrs2vcfree.wmv

It is also confusing when units of weight are used rather than volume (eg. pound of compost)

 

[OrganicOzarks]

How much more simple can it be than 'protozoa eat bacteria and poop out ionic form (available) nutrients', illustrated with live video footage of the microorganisms involved?

How can it be dumbed down from there? As a biologist I can say 'look there is a robin in that tree; use your binoculars' or
'look there is a ciliate cleaning off the fungal hyphae; look down the microscope tube' (or click on the video link). There is no difference in complexity between the two.

BTW. not Ingram; Ingham

Sounds to me like you got your panties in a wad from some things that have been said. Sorry for that. That was not my intention.

If you said, 'protozoa eat bacteria and poop out ionic form (available) nutrients'
to the average grower of less than a couple of years then they will have no idea what you are talking about. I talk with people about compost tea all of the time. Most of them your standard gardener growing food, and maybe a little smoke.

Not one of them, even a couple of seasoned certified organic farmer's I know would respond well to your statement.

Microbeman you seem to have a very strong personality. It shows through in your writing. Sometimes that can be a good thing, but sometimes it can be your worst enemy.

It kind of reminds me of someone with aspergers. You are oblivious to what is really going on around you because you are so into what you are doing.

I would like to say thank you for policing the grammar of someone on a Cannabis website. That seems really worth the time.

 

[heady blunts]

 

[DARC MIND]

wise men learn more from fools then fools from the wise

wise men learn more from fools then fools from the wise

if your going to talk/discuss compost tea then it be smart to know a little about the soil food web...
these discussions tend to get pretty deep with those who really want to learn

& FWIW,no one needs to dumb anything up when the bar is in desperate need to be raised

we in the age of information,learn how to ask questions & or respond with respect

 

[Ground Up]

For the record, I wish to state that the 'story' about guanos inhibiting microbial growth/division did not come from me. What I did state is that quanos are usually not composted and therefore including them is like making a manure/compost tea.

I have never tested quanos mostly because I've never seen the sense in spending money on the product. I have no doubt that looking down the microscope tube we will see bacterial/archaeal life (& probably fungi) and division using guanos or horse or cow manure or diesel. This is not the point.

The point is to grow out/multiply a microbial nutrient cycling consortium. Ideally one is looking for the 'set' of microorganisms existent in compost, soil or vermicompost. Adding ingredients with the thought that the ingredients will promote plant growth is likely counter-productive, as that ingredient will likely serve to feed or stifle microbial development.

If it stifles the microbes, then positive results observed will likely be from that ingredient alone. In that case one would be better off just using that ingredient and skip the tea making process.

One such ingredient [in my observations so far] is humic acid. Also please be aware that adding anything to a finished ACT is usually counter-productive (except 'maybe' in miniscule amounts)

I do know some people who have used leachate in ACT with no negative results. No big boogy-man comes out if there are some anaerobes in the mix. This can be a good thing in the long run.

I believe that it is very difficult to make compost tea which will harm your plants/soil so long as it really is compost tea and has not been brewing long enough to develop pathogens (eg. fusarium). It is however, possible to harm plants by overdosing ingredients.

I have stated all of this previously in this forum.

Some comments about this recipe;

Adding mycorrhizal spores is likely ineffective as they (endomycorrhizal) do not even sprout unless proximal to roots. That the author has indicated that the hyphae can be destroyed by aeration indicates, not only ignorance concerning mycorrhizal fungi but the nature of hyphal growth in ACT. Please see the video clips of hyphae in ACT on my webpage.
http://microbeorganics.com/18hrs2vcfree.wmv

It is also confusing when units of weight are used rather than volume (eg. pound of compost)

\

Ty for reviewing my brew..
So your saying that putting it in right before you use it is a waste of time, and that it only grows when roots are present? If thats the case, putting in in the last minute works.. then feed to soil..? if im wronge let me have it!!! I'm all ears!

 

[Microbeman]

Sounds to me like you got your panties in a wad from some things that have been said. Sorry for that. That was not my intention.

If you said, 'protozoa eat bacteria and poop out ionic form (available) nutrients'
to the average grower of less than a couple of years then they will have no idea what you are talking about. I talk with people about compost tea all of the time. Most of them your standard gardener growing food, and maybe a little smoke.

Not one of them, even a couple of seasoned certified organic farmer's I know would respond well to your statement.

Microbeman you seem to have a very strong personality. It shows through in your writing. Sometimes that can be a good thing, but sometimes it can be your worst enemy.

It kind of reminds me of someone with aspergers. You are oblivious to what is really going on around you because you are so into what you are doing.

I would like to say thank you for policing the grammar of someone on a Cannabis website. That seems really worth the time.

I never said one thing indicating I was upset or had my panties in a knot but boy you sure did.

So what is it that you believe these new and seasoned organic growers can understand? I have been amongst them for many years. You really believe they do not understand available nutrients, bacteria and protozoa [as in amoebae. paramecium]

BTW I was not correcting grammar. They are two different scientists.

It is interesting that although I wrote a number of things in support of your statements, that you chose to respond to what you perceived as an afront to yourself. Nevermind biology, how about psychology?

 

[Microbeman]

\

Ty for reviewing my brew..
So your saying that putting it in right before you use it is a waste of time, and that it only grows when roots are present? If thats the case, putting in in the last minute works.. then feed to soil..? if im wronge let me have it!!! I'm all ears!

When you apply mycorrhizal spores in a liquid to the surface of the soil. chances of making it to the new root tips, where colonization occurrs is very minimal. The people who produce the spores even instruct this. Thats all.

 

[Sinkyone]

The point is... guanos in the soil instead of the tea?

That is what I have found to be more effective. Top dress, then apply the ACT to break it all down. I have tested some of the guano 'teas' I made in the past using a nitrate meter and the PPM's on the N were definitely a bit high. Not enough to make 'bad' or sterile tea, but enough to hinder the microbial life. It's hard to make a 'bad' tea to the extent that it will mess up your plants In my experience, but some recipes and techniques definitely work better than others IMO.

 

[h.h.]

Please don't dumb it down. I'm dumb enough already.
Not being one to follow simple directions and having done everything wrong on purpose, I have had no bad effects from tea.
There seems to be a natural balance in a well prepared soil. An upper limit as well as a lower limit in the number and variety of microlife present. Adding more basically only leads to redundancy and only serves to keep the level topped off when low, otherwise, it's just runoff.
Tourists when all the hotels are full. They sleep in their cars overnight, then they move on before the ranger makes his rounds.

I feel that I've had some success from mycorrhizal by pre preparing my transplant holes by inserting an empty pot in the soil. Pull the pot out, lightly coat the hole with a mixture of bean flour and mycorrhizal, then reinsert the pot. After a couple of days, pull the pot out and let the soil sit for a day before transplant.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

I never said one thing indicating I was upset or had my panties in a knot but boy you sure did.

So what is it that you believe these new and seasoned organic growers can understand? I have been amongst them for many years. You really believe they do not understand available nutrients, bacteria and protozoa [as in amoebae. paramecium]

BTW I was not correcting grammar. They are two different scientists.

It is interesting that although I wrote a number of things in support of your statements, that you chose to respond to what you perceived as an afront to yourself. Nevermind biology, how about psychology?

Honestly you are correct. I was having an off day yesterday, and I do not know why I dragged you into it.

I am sorry for that.

I am very interested in a microscope though. Do you have any info that could point me in a good direction for something in the range of $600

Sorry again for yesterday.

 

[guest2012y]

ahhh heck...I was just getting into imagining MM running around with wadded panties on peeking through a microscope and posting responses on IC.....

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

ahhh heck...I was just getting into imagining MM running around with wadded panties on peeking through a microscope and posting responses on IC.....

hhahaha Cant get it out of my head now lol

gs

 

[Microbeman]

Honestly you are correct. I was having an off day yesterday, and I do not know why I dragged you into it.

I am sorry for that.

I am very interested in a microscope though. Do you have any info that could point me in a good direction for something in the range of $600

Sorry again for yesterday.

No worries. If you know my webpage, you can read there what I have to say concerning microscopes.

 

[Microbeman]

ahhh heck...I was just getting into imagining MM running around with wadded panties on peeking through a microscope and posting responses on IC.....

You've been spying...

 

[Oregonism]

ACT leaves alot to be desired. It only seems to address one instance of microbial activity, aerobic. How about them anaerobes, they too are benefical bacteria, fungi, protista, trichoma's, etc. etc.

I strongly suggest reading the Fermented Plant Extract post, all damn 40+ pages https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94673

Some other things that I am currently investigating include how FPE and ACT, act, on the Cation exchange capacity [CAC] which is usually used for soil, but it also can apply to a liquid medium.

I would also like to suggest that nutrient brews are said to stimulate ubiquitous microbiology, this is why we use molasses to "feed", we are culturing things that are already there. [Like MM said, "How does an old growth forest get its nutrients...."]

It seems we are attacking the technique without looking at the means to an end. i.e. How to stimulate soil activity and nutrient uptake with whatever method achieves that goal.