‘Too Big to Fail’: Russia-gate One Year After VIPS Showed a Leak, Not a Hack

[armedoldhippy]

holy shit man! if that ends up being true it will be officially, absolutely and undeniably massively fucking CRAZY! it will stand the world on it's head. can you imagine it, a sitting US president getting caught red handed, handcuffed and led away for treason in national tv!

it would not surprise me at all. he would prostitute his wife & children (and all of us) to make money/protect himself, much less throw this whole country under a bus. if it comes to pass, i won't have anything to say but "meh. what did you expect from a bottom-feeding POS like that to start with?"

 

[beta]

Trump is so hard on Russia that he's voluntarily offered to hand over US citizens for them to interrogate

Outrage erupts over Trump-Putin ‘conversation’ about letting Russia interrogate ex-U.S. diplomat Michael McFaul

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-u-s-diplomat-prompts-outrage-astonishment/

 

[gaiusmarius]

Trump is so hard on Russia that he's voluntarily offered to hand over US citizens for them to interrogate

Outrage erupts over Trump-Putin ‘conversation’ about letting Russia interrogate ex-U.S. diplomat Michael McFaul

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-u-s-diplomat-prompts-outrage-astonishment/

i wonder if you realize who mc faul and Browder really are and what the evidence against them is. you might be surprised. just because they are US elites doesn't mean they are innocent. if the US is inditing Russians for election meddling, what do you think should happen to browder and mc faul? one of them is a corrupt tax evading criminal and the other one is a covert operative who tried to bring Russian government down again and again. it wouldn't be the first time spies and criminals are exchanged between Russia and the US

 

[armedoldhippy]

i wonder if you realize who mc faul and Browder really are and what the evidence against them is. you might be surprised. just because they are US elites doesn't mean they are innocent. if the US is inditing Russians for election meddling, what do you think should happen to browder and mc faul? one of them is a corrupt tax evading criminal and the other one is a covert operative who tried to bring Russian government down again and again. it wouldn't be the first time spies and criminals are exchanged between Russia and the US

so let Russia indict them. neither country ever signed an extradition treaty. neither man is a prisoner of Trumps that he could "hand over" for interrogation. "spies and criminals"? are we back on Trump AGAIN? they can HAVE him...

 

[beta]

i wonder if you realize who mc faul and Browder really are and what the evidence against them is. you might be surprised. just because they are US elites doesn't mean they are innocent. if the US is inditing Russians for election meddling, what do you think should happen to browder and mc faul? one of them is a corrupt tax evading criminal and the other one is a covert operative who tried to bring Russian government down again and again. it wouldn't be the first time spies and criminals are exchanged between Russia and the US

He has been charged with no crime, no extradition proceedings have taken place. If he's guilty of whatever crime you're insinuating he is then he should be prosecuted. In a US court. You seem pretty certain he's guilty considering nobody has ever accused him of anything credibly.

If you see no problem with the president handing over US citizens to be interrogated when requested by a hostile foreign power IN THE COMPLETE ABSENCE of any trial or anything resembling the rule of law, you are no patriot. Shame on you. You have allowed your tribalism to consume your common sense.

 

[beta]

i wonder if you realize who mc faul and Browder really are and what the evidence against them is. you might be surprised.

I bet everything I own that you can't produce a shred of credible evidence supporting this wild assertion. Not even the tiniest bit.

Something tells me you'll have a great excuse for why you can't, though...

If you can't prove it, why do you believe it?

 

[gaiusmarius]

there is an international warrant for the arrest of Browder and Mcfaul is a person of interest in the case. prosecutors want to talk to him, thats all. if he has nothing to hide, why won't he explain himself eh?

btw. Trump only offered them a chance to talk to him. he wasn't saying you can have him and do what you want with him.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

World Economic Forum (Bilderburg's) coming up in Davos Switzerland on the 22nd January - at the moment its all snowed in - lets hope it stays that way.


news story:

UPDATED: Davos 2019 loses its biggest drawcard, Trump cancels
11th January 2019 by Alec Hogg
By Alec Hogg*

A fortnight hence, the 48th annual meeting of the World Economic Forum will be in full swing. But unlike last year, the “Donald Trump Show” has just lost its star attraction. After trumpeting his excitement at making a return visit, last night (Thursday 10th Jan) Trump announced that he has cancelled – seems the pressure was just too much over his proposed Border Wall and the partial shutdown of the Federal Government (where 380,000 employees have been sent home on unpaid leave and as least as many are having to work without pay).

Given the reception he received in January 2018, it was hardly surprising Trump found the event irresistible. Burt even he has limits when attacked on too many fronts. So the WEF loses out as the US president fights an escalating war against the Democrats and an hopefully receding one on the trade front with China. Adding to the pressure, though, was yesterday’s disclosure that his long-time personal lawyer and former confidante Michael Cohen will testify before Congress next month. Cohen has turned state witness in a criminal charge likely to be brought against Trump over hush money paid to former lovers at a critical stage of the 2016 presidential election.


more here - https://www.biznews.com/wef/2019/01/11/davos-2019-wef-preparing-for-the-donald-trump-show-again

 

[gaiusmarius]

truth is, Putin offered US mueller investigation access to who they want to speak with. in return the US would let their people speek with mcfaul and others. this really doesn't seem to be a sign of treason on Trumps part, it sounds like the normal give and take of diplomacy to me.

 

[beta]

there is an international warrant for the arrest of Browder and Mcfaul is a person of interest in the case. prosecutors want to talk to him, thats all. if he has nothing to hide, why won't he explain himself eh?

L. O. L.

How Russia Tries to Catch Its ‘Criminals’ by Abusing Interpol

Vladimir Putin has once again gamed the system to get an anti-corruption activist arrested in a Western democracy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/russia-interpol-abuse/561539/



Interpol Helps Dictators Hunt Down Dissidents—and Me

Russia, China, and Turkey are among the countries that use the international police organization to harass and hunt down critics.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/interpol-helps-dictators-hunt-down-dissidentsand-me

 

[beta]

The Scourge of the Red Notice

How some countries use Interpol to go after dissidents and debtors.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/03/the-scourge-of-the-red-notice-interpol-uae-russia-china/

 

[armedoldhippy]

truth is, Putin offered US mueller investigation access to who they want to speak with. in return the US would let their people speek with mcfaul and others. this really doesn't seem to be a sign of treason on Trumps part, it sounds like the normal give and take of diplomacy to me.

Putin can do what he likes, there is no recourse to his decisions. unless the 2 "gentlemen" you refer to willingly go to meet whomever Putin sends, there is no legal way to make them. given what regularly happens to those Putin dislikes, i myself would not make myself "available" even if i was as pure as driven snow... if Putins bullies want to "speek" to those fine fellows, i'll bet they could be reached by telephone. or, they could write down their questions they have, as Mueller has so graciously done for his highness, lol. we are free citizens here. or, we WERE... you really should not use Trumps name and words like "normal" or "diplomacy" in the same sentence/paragraph/book.

 

[gaiusmarius]

if you want to know why i don't trust mcFaul...

if you want to know why i don't trust mcFaul...

it's likely mcfaul was only doing what all Russian ambassadors do, but from a Russian point of view it's just as much election meddling as anything they are accused of.

i know the instinct is to think, we don't do anything wrong, it's all the Russians, but the world is never so simple. if you really want the context this is worth a read.

in the end Magnitsky case was horrific and those investigators/interrogators who beat him to death need to be imprisoned for life. those who ordered it too, anything else is 3rd world corruption. trouble is the act is now used as a geopolitical and trade weapon.


Liberals Leap to Defend Neo-Con Henchman McFaul

https://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2018/07/liberals-leap-to-defend-neo-con.html

July 29, 2018 (Tony Cartalucci - NEO) - Were one to read the Washington Post's article on a Russian proposal regarding the questioning of suspects in various, ongoing US and Russia investigations, they would have imagined former US ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul was about to be shipped to a dungeon beneath the Kremlin for interrogation.

The Washington Post's article, "Outrage erupts over Trump-Putin ‘conversation’ about letting Russia interrogate ex-U.S. diplomat Michael McFaul" fueled anti-Russian hysteria, claiming:
At this week’s summit in Helsinki, Russian President Vladimir Putin proposed what President Trump described as an “incredible offer” — the Kremlin would give special counsel Robert S. Mueller III access to interviews with Russians who were indicted after they allegedly hacked Democrats in 2016. In return, Russia would be allowed to question certain U.S. officials it suspects of interfering in Russian affairs.

One of those U.S. officials is a former U.S. ambassador to Moscow, Michael McFaul, a nemesis of the Kremlin because of his criticisms of Russia’s human rights record.
The Washington Post would compound confusion and hysteria by also claiming (emphasis added):
The willingness of the White House to contemplate handing over a former U.S. ambassador for interrogation by the Kremlin drew ire and astonishment from current and former U.S. officials. Such a proposition is unheard of. So is the notion that the president may think he has the legal authority to turn anyone over to a foreign power on his own.
In reality, the proposal never entailed the US or Russia handing anyone over for interrogation. Bloomberg in an article titled, "Trump ‘Looks Weak’ by Considering Putin’s Interrogation Idea, McFaul Says," would more accurately summarize the deal, stating:
Putin proposed letting Russians observe interrogations of McFaul and other Americans. In exchange, U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller could send members of his team to watch Russian questioning of 12 Russian intelligence agents indicted by a U.S. grand jury last week in connection with hacking Democratic Party email accounts and disseminating those messages before the 2016 presidential election.
Americans of interest would be questioned in the United States, by Americans, merely with Russian representatives present, in exchange for American representatives travelling to Russia to watch a Russian interrogation of suspects relevant to ongoing US investigations.

Further evidence is the transcript of the actual statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin himself, posted by Politico, which states unequivocally (emphasis added):
We can actually permit representatives of the United States, including the members of this very commission headed by Mr. Mueller, we can let them into the country. They will be present at questioning. In this case, there's another condition. This kind of effort should be mutual one. Then we would expect that the Americans would reciprocate. They would question officials, including the officers of law enforcement and intelligence services of the United States whom we believe — who have something to do with illegal actions on the territory of Russia. And we have to request the presence of our law enforcement.
Despite these facts, the hysteria has continued to spread in part due to a dishonest media eager to fan the flames of conflict with Russia and Western audiences eager to believe them.

Who is McFaul? And Why are Liberals Defending Him?

Americans convinced Russia interfered in American elections must then be acutely aware that meddling in another nation's internal political affairs is unacceptable. Thus, McFaul's role in doing precisely this before and during his appointment as US ambassador to Russia from 2012-2014 should elicit condemnation and outcries from these same Americans.

Instead, many Western liberals have leaped to McFaul's defense.

The short answer as to why many in the West are defending McFaul is out of a reflexive response to their blind hatred of US President Donald Trump and Russia. McFaul has positioned himself both as a critic of President Trump and of Russia, fulfilling the only two prerequisites required to garner support among circles entertaining the current anti-Russia hysteria.


Yet McFaul represents special interests and activities that many Americans, left or right of the political spectrum, would find unacceptable - and perhaps especially for those outraged over alleged Russian meddling in American politics.

McFaul's Role in Supporting Global Political Meddling

Before McFaul served as US ambassador to Russia from 2012-2014 he served on the board of trustees of Freedom House (page 30, PDF).

Freedom House is a US government and corporate-financier funded front that imposes the interests of its sponsors on nations abroad under the guise of expanding "freedom and democracy around the world." This process entails the creation and support of opposition groups to undermine and eventually either oust or overthrow targeted governments.

When McFaul served as trustee for Freedom House, its 2005 annual report indicated the US State Department and the US Agency for International Development (USAID) as sponsors. It also included Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, and pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly.

Additionally, Freedom House is a subsidiary of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is chaired by a variety of career, pro-war Neoconservatives - Neoconservatives who promoted many of the Bush-era wars Western liberals opposed.

NED is also funded by the US government as well as corporations (page 126, PDF) including Goldman Sachs, convicted financial criminal George Soros' Open Society, Coca-Cola, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and the US Chamber of Commerce which itself serves as a collective lobbying front for some of the largest corporations in the US.


NED and subsidiaries like Freedom House use the pretext of "democracy promotion" to pressure and even overthrow governments around the world, making way for client regimes that will serve US corporations and their expansion around the globe. In other words, "democracy" is a principle the NED and its subsidiaries hide behind, not uphold with US client regimes often being more abusive and corrupt than the governments they replaced.

One would imagine someone like McFaul involved in aiding and abetting corporations in their meddling worldwide and their subsequent exploitation of nations they undermine and overthrow would be the last person Western liberals would rush to the defense of.

McFaul Minding US-Funded Agitators in Moscow

McFaul's role at Freedom House would become more "hands on" when he was nominated, then appointed US ambassador to Russia from 2012-2014. During his first year as ambassador, Russian opposition figures funded by the NED and its subsidiaries would report to the US embassy in Moscow to meet with McFaul.

Present at the 2012 US embassy meeting were regular mainstays of the Western-backed Russian opposition, including Boris Nemtsov, Yevgeniya Chirikova of the NED-funded "Strategy 31" protests, Lev Ponomarev of the NED, Ford Foundation, Open Society, and USAID-funded Moscow Helsinki Group, and Liliya Shibanova of NED-funded GOLOS, an allegedly "independent" election monitoring group that serves as the primary source of accusations of voting fraud against President Putin's United Russia party.


Today, many of these organizations have hidden their US funding and the US NED webpage disclosing its activities in Russia describes its current meddling in the most ambiguous terms possible. Despite this, there are still nearly 100 entries on the NED's Russian webpage covering everything from meddling in the media, education, and the environment, to interfering in Russia's legal system and Russian elections.

We could only imagine the condemnation, outcry, and demands for action should a front similar to NED be created by Russia to interfere likewise in all aspects of American socioeconomic and political affairs, especially considering how mere accusations of "meddling" entailing e-mail leaks and social media posts have tipped off sanctions, a multi-year investigation, and even talk of treason and war.

McFaul's association with individuals and organizations funded by the government he represented is in reality the very sort of political meddling and interference many have accused Russia of since 2016. There support of someone actually involved in political meddling in Russia, further undermines their credibility and moral authority in regards to accusations against Russia.


Pavlovian Politics

McFaul's involvement in the recent Russian proposal was not - however - related to his role in political meddling in Russia, but instead his alleged involvement with convicted financial criminal William Browder.

While the Western media depicts both McFaul and Browder's conflicts with the Russian government as a result of their supposed advocacy for "democracy" and "human rights," McFaul was clearly hiding behind such principles to advance US corporate interests, while Browder was attempting to gain leverage regarding his criminal conviction.

Interestingly enough, George Soros - who has funded subversion in Russia alongside organizations like NED - also attempted to leverage the notion of human rights to sidestep his own criminal conviction in France for insider trading, even according to the New York Times.

This troubling trend of the Western public gravitating toward and supporting individuals like McFaul and Browder solely out of their perceived hatred for President Trump and Russia is pushing Western political discourse further from rational debate and deeper toward hysteria.

That powerful special interests can easily manipulate sections of the Western public to support virtually anyone or anything, including unsavory characters like McFaul and Browder or the notion of expanding NATO or continued war abroad in nations like Syria simply by invoking "Trump" or "Russia" represents a predictable but dangerous Pavlovian phenomenon likely to leave deep scars, permanently disfiguring American politics and society much in the way the so-called "War on Terror" has.

The increasing lack of political sophistication in America is a reflection of a much wider deterioration of American economic and geopolitical strength both at home and around the globe. While one would expect sound leadership to begin preparing America for an orderly transition from a once global hegemon to a constructive member of a more multipolar world order, history has proven the lack of grace that generally accompanies an empire's decline.

Tony Cartalucci, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Trump is so hard on Russia that he's voluntarily offered to hand over US citizens for them to interrogate

Outrage erupts over Trump-Putin ‘conversation’ about letting Russia interrogate ex-U.S. diplomat Michael McFaul

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...of-u-s-diplomat-prompts-outrage-astonishment/

you should know that this is factually incorrect.

Putin said the US agents could come and watch the people they wanted questioned be asked the questions and note the responses. he then said that it should be mutual, ie Russian investigators would watch their US counterparts put certain questions to the same number of people the US wishes to question.

so it seems there was no talk of handing anyone over to anyone else. let alone handing them over for interrogation.

 

[Zeez]

truth is, Putin offered US mueller investigation access to who they want to speak with. in return the US would let their people speek with mcfaul and others. this really doesn't seem to be a sign of treason on Trumps part, it sounds like the normal give and take of diplomacy to me.

Putin is KGB. You speak of him as though he is an honorable gentleman from a country that we have had decades of good relations with. Putin is nothing more than a thug interested in harming the US as well as our relations with our allis and the security of NATO. Through his grip on trump he has been very successful so far. There is nothing positive that Putin could possibly offer Mueller.

 

[beta]

it's likely mcfaul was only doing what all Russian ambassadors do, but from a Russian point of view it's just as much election meddling as anything they are accused of.

i know the instinct is to think, we don't do anything wrong, it's all the Russians, but the world is never so simple. if you really want the context this is worth a read.

in the end Magnitsky case was horrific and those investigators/interrogators who beat him to death need to be imprisoned for life. those who ordered it too, anything else is 3rd world corruption. trouble is the act is now used as a geopolitical and trade weapon.

No offense but I don't find a no-name blog making wild accusations with zero evidence compelling in the slightest.

 

[gaiusmarius]

No offense but I don't find a no-name blog making wild accusations with zero evidence compelling in the slightest.

thats your prerogative of course.

i present it only to show you what the other side thinks about these people. it's a matter of looking at things from both sides. once again i would add, most of the events mentioned are on the record.

but if you think mcfaul was a choir boy while ambassador to Russia you are being naive.

 

[stadanko]

McFaul's only crime is speaking honestly in the press about how Putin conducts his business and about how Trump is so obviously doing Putin's bidding.

The Russian play wasn't to go after both sides of U.S. political parties, they targeted their citizen's united dark money at the hardcore GOP conservatives. They've gotten a lot of bang for their dark bucks in Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan "freedom caucus" types. They control the programming on Fox news, Sinclair media "local" news stations, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Breitbart News, Drudge, Mein Kampf Media, and through illicit donations they own at least half of Republican politicians. They also now own the NRA and dictate it's marketing platform.

They are Putin and the Oligarchs, and while you blinked they have massively destabilized the entire geopolitical world to their benefit and to the West's demise. Soon they will take Venezuela's oil and Syria's too. Trump is giving them everything they want. You can bet he is getting paid.

 

[Brother Nature]

Pretty interesting that the country that prides itself on having something like 50,000 nukes, the worlds strongest military by far, best living conditions, best technology, blah blah blah, can be completely overrun by a few drunk snowmen on computers running Linux. Even more interesting that this never occurred during the cold war. Extra interesting that it is singly one mans fault. You guys defend these US institutions vigorously, but are willing to concede that a few Russians toppled all that with the help of some ego driven reality tv show star simply to validate your hatred for the guy? The guy can't even keep his dick in his pants and you all think he has the ability to topple an international superpower? Fucking incredible.

 

[gaiusmarius]

McFaul's only crime is speaking honestly in the press about how Putin conducts his business and about how Trump is so obviously doing Putin's bidding.

The Russian play wasn't to go after both sides of U.S. political parties, they targeted their citizen's united dark money at the hardcore GOP conservatives. They've gotten a lot of bang for their dark bucks in Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan "freedom caucus" types. They control the programming on Fox news, Sinclair media "local" news stations, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Breitbart News, Drudge, Mein Kampf Media, and through illicit donations they own at least half of Republican politicians. They also now own the NRA and dictate it's marketing platform.

They are Putin and the Oligarchs, and while you blinked they have massively destabilized the entire geopolitical world to their benefit and to the West's demise. Soon they will take Venezuela's oil and Syria's too. Trump is giving them everything they want. You can bet he is getting paid.

well the accusations the Russian state makes is that he was meeting up regularly with opposition activists. anyone that was against Putin was most welcome at McFauls. now you don't like your politicians to even speak with a Russian, what would you say if the far left and or far right crazies were getting regularly wined and dined at the Russian embassy? oh yeah we know the answer, you accuse them of treason and the ambassador of being top spy. maybe they have a similar view on Mc Faul. talk about an unfortunate name.