Thoughts on a new room design, input pls.

[DaveTheNewbie]

because its perpetual, there is no sooner or later. whats sooner for one side is later for the other.

and yeah FF, ive seen that too, but the visuals dont bother me because i dont live in a med state and people take whatever they can get thier hands on. if its good the keep coming back.

 

[Mister_D]

Whatever you're planning to do with the lights I'd do it sooner then later.


While I'm not disputing Mr D, I have noticed a change in direction of flower development by changing the orientation of the lamp later in the cycle.


For instance if I've got a heavy top that ends up sagging down and is never tied up its bud structure will change, resulting in a pretty ugly cola. A cola that has sagged out of ideal "donut" zone, new bud development will start to grow upwards towards the light. In my experience this results in odd growth and fox-tailing as the bud trys to re-position itself to it's new source of light.


This has occurred to me even very late in flower. I'll have a nice tight bud, it'll sag lower and lower as flowering progresses and the end result will be a sideways colas with a bunch of foxtail fingers growing out of the side of it (which while growing is now the UP position). Nothing wrong with it really, but looks like hell.

Can't say that I've ever noticed what you are describing here, but every plant is different. Interesting stuff..........

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I've got a room coming down in the coming weeks. I'll pick out a nice freak and take some photos.


The variety seems to want to foxtail late in the cycle anyways so I'm likely just noticing the change in direction that the foxtails will take. I'm unsure if I've just got a super touchy variety on my hands but I've been having a heck of a time with the Rhino I've been running - as has everyone else I know who has it. Foxtailing might be something it just does late bloom, or perhaps I'm just always over feeding it = which brings on the foxtails. 1.2EC and low strength flushes and I still can't take these ladies to harvest without tip burn/yellowing/leaf drop.

Luckily it's out of here after this current run and I'm on to bigger and better things.. Got a buddy doing one last run with it in Pure Knowledge's water only soil mix. Curious to see how it turns out going that route.

 

[DHF]

I've got a room coming down in the coming weeks. I'll pick out a nice freak and take some photos.


The variety seems to want to foxtail late in the cycle anyways so I'm likely just noticing the change in direction that the foxtails will take. I'm unsure if I've just got a super touchy variety on my hands but I've been having a heck of a time with the Rhino I've been running - as has everyone else I know who has it. Foxtailing might be something it just does late bloom, or perhaps I'm just always over feeding it = which brings on the foxtails. 1.2EC and low strength flushes and I still can't take these ladies to harvest without tip burn/yellowing/leaf drop.

Luckily it's out of here after this current run and I'm on to bigger and better things.. Got a buddy doing one last run with it in Pure Knowledge's water only soil mix. Curious to see how it turns out going that route.

Some bitches ain`t never happy FF.....too many strains , not enough time....Cull her ass and move on.....

It`s been noted at the med sites that over fed sativa dominant varieties in late flower will continue to produce calyxes and pistils , as well as reach toward the lights and cause said "foxtailing", but bastard looking heavy ass drooped colas stretchin back toward the lights.....dunno......so as Dbro said .....every plant`s different....and....

Dave....Watts per sq ft is watts per sq ft IME , and re-positioning the lights might indeed re-orient the plants response to stimuli and cause minimum recovery time , but ......

Ultimately canopy penetration and plant absorption`s what matters in the long run from wherever the lights are hung as close to the plants as physically possible without bleaching/scorching for resin production in late bloomage.....but.....

Environment means waaay more than watts per sq ft , so things to ponder Bro.....anyways and lastly.....Bobbles...

Never been a "vague" bone in my body Bro.....Blumat regs and Maxi`s are by far the best thing since "sliced bread" with all my old head Caregivers/Dispensary Owners on the left coast , up the PNW and on into Canuck-ville .....guaranteed cuz they do this for a living....and....

Several of the big plant grower`s been lookin at D9`s PPK here lately cuz I`ve been suggesting side by side`s with their experiment rooms.....

Hope your Maxi`s work Dave , but wanna see the PPK finals fer sure......Hope your and GM`s "pvc" extension mods work too Bobbles.......

Peace.....Freds...........

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Dave....Watts per sq ft is watts per sq ft IME , and re-positioning the lights might indeed re-orient the plants response to stimuli and cause minimum recovery time , but ......

Ultimately canopy penetration and plant absorption`s what matters in the long run from wherever the lights are hung as close to the plants as physically possible without bleaching/scorching for resin production in late bloomage.....but.....

Environment means waaay more than watts per sq ft , so things to ponder Bro.....

its autumn now and things are much cooler. Humidity is still low, and temps are still higher than you would wish for, but its improving

Several of the big plant grower`s been lookin at D9`s PPK here lately cuz I`ve been suggesting side by side`s with their experiment rooms.....

i would love to see that. its the only way to truely see which is better, to do a side by side, by people that have the talent to make both systems work at thier best.

Hope your Maxi`s work Dave , but wanna see the PPK finals fer sure......

well the PPK is happening, next round its going to be 2 smaller PPK buckets instead of 1 big one. Ive worked out how to make that work for me. Maxis are here and go in next round (a couple of weeks) and it will be interesting if that fixes all my problems. If so maxis all round it will probabally be.

 

[420ish]

wheres the pics of the smaller ppks?you have got me interested in them.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

wheres the pics of the smaller ppks?you have got me interested in them.

I havent made them yet. Ive just sourced parts and worked out how im going to do it. Im not going to try making one until i am confident that i can make the big one work. i cant find any decent rock based medium and i dont believe in recirc coco. Currently my EC is climbing like mad and i dont want to have to replace the water every week or 2 as its a PITA.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

as an aside, and remember ive had as many troubles with blumats as anyone, im finding that 4 blumats per 7 gal pot is working really well. Zero troubles so far. Its early days yet but im wondering if the maxis dont work if this wont be my long term method of growing

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I havent made them yet. Ive just sourced parts and worked out how im going to do it. Im not going to try making one until i am confident that i can make the big one work. i cant find any decent rock based medium and i dont believe in recirc coco. Currently my EC is climbing like mad and i dont want to have to replace the water every week or 2 as its a PITA.

Hey Dave,

You know, couldnt you actually run the PPK as a drain to waste system. Just by installing a drain/overflow at the level at which your float is normally set at.

This will still give you the ability to wick (albeit maybe a higher EC) as well as remove the perched water table from the rootzone, but then any excess solution will run to waste rather then back to the pulse res. With enough pass through the few inches of water in the lower container should eventually level out and be closer to your input EC>


^in a remote res situation that is. I realize your lower container is your res in this instance.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Hey Dave,

You know, couldnt you actually run the PPK as a drain to waste system. Just by installing a drain/overflow at the level at which your float is normally set at.

This will still give you the ability to wick (albeit maybe a higher EC) as well as remove the perched water table from the rootzone, but then any excess solution will run to waste rather then back to the pulse res. With enough pass through the few inches of water in the lower container should eventually level out and be closer to your input EC>


^in a remote res situation that is. I realize your lower container is your res in this instance.

so feed the control res with a timer, either on a pump or a solenoid if gravity fed, rather than the current float valve
have an overflow hole in the control res so it drains to waste when over full. keep the system running as it is with a once a day (or whatever) refresh of nutes .... interesting idea .... DTW PPK

i love the way brains work in this forum, people always thinking of another way of doing things. its one of the most innovative places around IMO.

if the current system doesnt work (and im struggling to see how it would) thats always a plan B, and a rather sexy one too. In my heart tho i really want the blumats to work, as a system it suits me so well and im already set up for it.

EDIT : im seriously considering this. Im also considering what other mediums i could use instead of coco. Right now its :
clay balls : zero wicking and little water absorbtion, would have to run the pump alot, wouldnt have any vacuum with the pulse feed
pure zeolite : im scared about the amount of nutes this stuff holds and can drop when pushed. its a real contender
attapulgite : cat litter, cheap. this stuff goes mushy over time and is not reusable. its a once off usage. bonsai growers do use this stuff tho, and say it takes about a year to go to mush.

 

[delta9nxs]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241442&page=12 posts 175-176-177.

this is a drain to waste ppk but all you need to do is steer the solution down until you find a balance point.

also there is nothing wrong with recirculating coco. i ran it for a long time with no problems. many plants.

the big plant i put a pic of in your other thread is recirculating coco.

the ppk is capable of being tuned to almost any condition.

and operating it is a little different than other hydro systems.

if your ec is rising you are consuming more water than nutes so back down the nutes to compensate.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241442&page=12 posts 175-176-177.

this is a drain to waste ppk

thats slightly different to what i was visualising
i want the DTW in the control res, with the satelights returning to the control res.
this allows the pulsing effect as often as you want, and the waste/replace cycle to be on a different timer. You could replace the nutes/water daily or weekly as desired.
it also allows a single waste collection point with multiple satelight pots.

 

[delta9nxs]

thats slightly different to what i was visualising
i want the DTW in the control res, with the satelights returning to the control res.
this allows the pulsing effect as often as you want, and the waste/replace cycle to be on a different timer. You could replace the nutes/water daily or weekly as desired.
it also allows a single waste collection point with multiple satelight pots.

what you have just described is a full on ppk with a periodic drain to waste? i think!

why?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

what you have just described is a full on ppk with a periodic drain to waste? i think!

yes

why?

dunno

EDIT : i think the conversation started with the high EC recirculating around, and the idea of partially replacing the nutes every now and then to keep the EC under control.
if you remember the good old days before coco when everything was recirc one would mix a batch of nutes and run that with plain water top offs, and then replace the whole damn thing every week.
i think its taking some of that and integrating it. Its all just crazy ideas, im a thinking man. As in i think of crazy ideas and then do stupid shit and then dont learn from it and do it all again.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

well its been weeks since ive had a blumat fuck up on me
the pots are still dry to touch and im still increasing the flow every now and then, but its pretty solid.
the 7 gal pot with 4 blumats is gold, its really working.

anyway with 1 week to go these ladies are looking nice. the photo doesnt do it justice, each top is a 2-3 foot long spear

 

[bobblehead]

Bro the blumat didn't malfunction... You did. Get it right. lol...

I should add that 2 trop-f's per 2 gallon pot is working well for me.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Bro the blumat didn't malfunction... You did. Get it right. lol...

I should add that 2 trop-f's per 2 gallon pot is working well for me.

2 per 7 gal was dicey but working now
4 per 7 gal seems solid
im excited to try 2 maxis per 7 gal and see what happens

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

OK I have another question for the pros.

i recently changed my nutes a bit :
replaced kelp4less.com ultimate mix for GH Floralicious Plus (chelating)
added GH CaMg+
added GH FloraNectar (blueberry)

I changed a winning programme because the PPK was needing more calmag than i was giving it. It now needs more N as well but thats another story.

My veg plant is 3 weeks old. It seems very small to me. Looking closer there is :
- some rust like spots on a leaf or 2
- purple veins along the stem (normally i get purple stems very late in flowering)
- the coco surface seems covered in white shit

does anyone have any opinions on all this or am i just getting paranoid?

some rust like spots on a leaf or 2

purple veins along the stem (normally i get purple stems very late in flowering)

the coco surface seems covered in white shit

 

[DHF]

Those look like critter spots as in spider mites instead of brown rust pots that`s a sure indicator for calcium problems , but I`ve been wrong before Dave.......and .....

Those purple streaks in the stems don`t appear to look like Cal/Mag deficient symptoms either Bro.....plus.....

I see no interveinal chlorosis/leaf veins yellowing as in classic mag deficiency ......now.....

That white shit`s either residual salt buildup or mold/fungus of some type from what I can see caused by the medium stayin too wet with perfect breeding conditions , but as stated above......

I`ve been wrong before......just not much....anyways....Check the affected leaves underneath for egg sacs/larvae/active lil bastards eatin etc. and so forth , and then check that white shit out and see if it scrapes off and feels fuzzy......and lastly.....

Check EC runoff to see how elevated it is from the input , although core readings are the most reliable since feed semi flushes internal medium true EC readings to eliminate salt buildup..........regardless......

Hope it ain`t critters Dave........Good luck and....

Peace....Freds...............

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ive had spider mites before and the first thing i did was rub under the leaf. The underside is clean. I really dont want those little shits again, they are hell in a perpetual when you can clean things out properly.

Ive had salt buildup on the coco before and this is different, a bit more like cream than salt. Mold/fungus seems very likely. But the medium is far from too wet, the tops too damn dry if anything

and it doubt its a calmag issue because ive just started adding calmag. I suspect thats part of the problem. Maybe the calmag locking out something else

but my main suspicion is that all the sugars and molasses in the CaMg+ and the Floranectar are the cause.

So im going to ditch the 2 sugary additives, switch MaxiBloom to MaxiGrow, and run a simpler setup
- MaxiGrow
- Silica
- Dripclean
- Floralicious Plus

I just have to wait for the res to empty out a bit first. One of the new additives left a nasty crust all over everything inside the res anyway so it could do with another scrub out.