Thinking about going LED

[Lazyeye]

Thanks guys, I take your words very seriously. Both of you are very heavy hitters here in the LED forum.

medmaker: Do you have any perticular lights you'd like to throw an extra punch for? If going by verdants advice I'd have 55w/square foot. So more than enough.

verdant: I totally get what you're saying. Is this the same for all LED's? Or are there LED's that have a better spreading of the light than others?

Any advice on LED's not as pricy as HGL? Trying to keep the cost down but I don't want to cut down on quality too much...

 

[rives]

I've been debating about throwing this option out there since you seem to be focused on the LED route, but you should at least take a look at these things. You apparently have adequate cooling for them, and they are well within the price range that you are discussing. If you look at the last few pages of the CMH thread, you will see that a number of us are having excellent results with the lamp, and one person with the luminaire. The ballast that is being used in the package was designed to go head-to-head with the LED streetlight market, with basically the same longevity of the fixture/lamp. The lamp has an extraordinary spectrum and the luminaire supposedly provides an unprecedented level of even light distribution. I like LEDs a lot, but these things are pretty damn impressive.

http://greenbeamslighting.com/

 

[Lazyeye]

ARGH! rives! Another option! Like I didn't have a hard time before!

Just kidding, thanks for the input. It's just so much info to take in with all this new tech. I'm new to HID's for crying out loud!

Just a question to you veterans. How much do you think is an okey/good yield for a 600w hps? 3-400g?

Do you have a journal for your CMH grow?

Edit: What's the footprint of the 315 agro? Making my way through the info pages now.

 

[rives]

I can't help you with the 600w HPS question, I've never used one. I would expect the yield to be a bit higher than that, though (at least after you were dialed in a bit).

No journal, but there are weekly pictures in my Philips 315w CDM album and the CMH thread.

I'm using Bell Lighting hoods, so the footprint would be different. Tenthirty has been using a "Greenbeams" hood over a 3' x 3' table.

 

[VerdantGreen]

verdant: I totally get what you're saying. Is this the same for all LED's? Or are there LED's that have a better spreading of the light than others?

Any advice on LED's not as pricy as HGL? Trying to keep the cost down but I don't want to cut down on quality too much...

yeah the principle is the same. many fixtures will have a wider angle than the HGL X ones and that will help but you'll still get a much sweeter spot under the fixture - so more fixtures are better.

VG

 

[DocZ]

Agreed...And more fixtures will also reduce shadowing from upper tops, with the sweet spot moving to the middle of the fixture placement. Only a perfectly-spaced scrog that holds an "even level", or a SOG array with all same-height or "dished" center can eliminate shadowing from a single bulb or fixture with a limited reflector size.
Which is why I like the EVO bars, which also space-out the emitter clusters along the bar length. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5671386&posted=1#post5671386
Regards,

 

[Lazyeye]

DocZ: Are those bars DIY?

Currently looking at either one Lumigrow Pro 650, wich seems to be fucking awesome. Or like 4x 200w CFL Solarflare 200w. It would be about the same price-wise. But I'm thinking Lumigrows is a new "generation" of LED, CFL's LED's are kind of old by LED standard? And I've read somewhere that the Pro 650 kicked the 800w solarstorm's ass.

Decisions decisions... What I DO KNOW is that I do not want to buy HGL products. There's just too much negativity around them. No smoke without fire and all that... Especially with me being in Europe. If things fuck up and they decide to be douches about it I'm fucked.

Edit: Also trying to wrap my head around this CMH tech. Since I've only been reading about HID's until recently it's all been about the wattage = yields. This new tech is more spectrum = yields. I'm feeling like an idiot most of the time reading about this stuff

 

[rives]

I have a Lumigrow ES330. I found that it was too much power in too tight of an area - it doesn't do a good job of reaching the edges in my 32" x 32" tent, and can bleach the shit out of the plants directly below it. The 650 is more power in the same size envelope. It seems like the wrong approach to me unless you have them mounted far overhead, with numerous fixtures to overlap the lighted area.

 

[cateros]

Just wondering verdant as your opinion is one I prize highly you mentioned a few smaller instead of a larger panel , how about in a case like mine where I have a 6 x 4 canopy to cover I purchased the 336x and 189x and am going to run them on light rails this should give me the same coverage as multiple smaller panels correct or do you think by overlapping these two panels coverage and use of light rails I should see an increase in performance like when using rails with hid lighting.

My logic being the 336 is rated for a 4 x 4 canopy or 16 square feet and the 189 3 x 3 or 9 square feet for a total of 21, in my scrog ill be covering 24 square feet with these lights using the rails , and I have covered a 4 x 8 table with one 1k light on a rail and had spectacular results .

 

[jcmjrt]

Just wondering verdant as your opinion is one I prize highly you mentioned a few smaller instead of a larger panel , how about in a case like mine where I have a 6 x 4 canopy to cover I purchased the 336x and 189x and am going to run them on light rails this should give me the same coverage as multiple smaller panels correct or do you think by overlapping these two panels coverage and use of light rails I should see an increase in performance like when using rails with hid lighting.

My logic being the 336 is rated for a 4 x 4 canopy or 16 square feet and the 189 3 x 3 or 9 square feet for a total of 21, in my scrog ill be covering 24 square feet with these lights using the rails , and I have covered a 4 x 8 table with one 1k light on a rail and had spectacular results .

I'm not Verdant but...
Probably the biggest lie that manufacturers tell is coverage. LEDs will typically grow quality bud directly under the fixture and 2 - 6 inches off to the side....so the size of the fixture plus 4 - 12 inches. Light movers can definitely help leverage the effectiveness of your watts by increasing coverage...but there must be enough watts there to start with. I use multiple small fixtures on a spinner to make the most of my LED watts/coverage.

How much wattage do you need? Multiple high quality, low density LED panels that you can keep close to a canopy are the most electrically efficient and you'd probably need about 25 watts/ft2. You aren't looking at such panels so really your wattage requirement is probably more like 35 watts/ft2...so 24 x 35 watts = 840 watts. You supposedly have about 500 + 290= 790 watts so about right. If you get the light rails set up to give you good coverage of your area then you should be good.

One other thing...your plants will need less water than they did under HID since there's less heat and less transpiration. Be careful or you'll overwater...I know I did.

 

[cateros]

I'm not Verdant but...
Probably the biggest lie that manufacturers tell is coverage. LEDs will typically grow quality bud directly under the fixture and 2 - 6 inches off to the side....so the size of the fixture plus 4 - 12 inches. Light movers can definitely help leverage the effectiveness of your watts by increasing coverage...but there must be enough watts there to start with. I use multiple small fixtures on a spinner to make the most of my LED watts/coverage.

How much wattage do you need? Multiple high quality, low density LED panels that you can keep close to a canopy are the most electrically efficient and you'd probably need about 25 watts/ft2. You aren't looking at such panels so really your wattage requirement is probably more like 35 watts/ft2...so 24 x 35 watts = 840 watts. You supposedly have about 500 + 290= 790 watts so about right. If you get the light rails set up to give you good coverage of your area then you should be good.

One other thing...your plants will need less water than they did under HID since there's less heat and less transpiration. Be careful or you'll overwater...I know I did.

Even though your not the Verdant one thanks all the same , as fro the overwatering I am using an active aqua ebb and grow system and hydromite or hydroton as the media . main reason I went with it over the cap ebb and grow is its the only ebb bucket system that I have found that actually fills and drains from the very bottom and not the side so a little ebb and flow screening at the bottom and not root clogging , only thing is as its hydroton and ebb do you think standard feeding times for ebb will be fine ?

Also If anyone knows cause I am kinda lazy as I am doing this as a 24 sqf scrog I am very lazy anyone know where I can buy premade screens I was considering buying some kid gates and dismantling them but they are a bit expensive. Or anyone know some good links to diy instruction on building scrog screens out of pvc and coated chainlink fencing

 

[cateros]

Been looking around, ALOT lately. I'm not getting a whole lot smarter about the technology though. But I guess that'll come. I've found these that I'm somewhat interested in:

HGL Penetrator-336 PRO. $1999 http://growershouse.com/penetrator-336x-pro
California Light Works Solar Storm 800W. $1599 http://growershouse.com/california-light-works-solar-storm-800w-led
LumiGrow Pro 650. $1459 http://growershouse.com/lumigrow-pro-650
SP113D-560W. $765 http://www.bsled.com/led-grow-light/sp113d-560w.html (this is a one-off. Normally don't sell only 1 unit).

The last light is the one I talked about earlier in the thread. I've been talking alot with Bysen and HGL, will make a new thread with that thing. I've gathered that people are kind of interested in the whole HGL/Bysen thing, at least earlier.

What would you guys do for the most efficient setup? Someone mentioned running several smaller lights, wich lights would you use if to go that route?

Edit: Forgot to add Diamond Series XML 10W Cree from Advancedleds. I think I'd need 2x 300w of these if choosing these. Ending up at $1994

Actually did you ever check into the bysen helios lights which feature cree diodes in the mix.

 

[hempfield]

One other thing...your plants will need less water than they did under HID since there's less heat and less transpiration. Be careful or you'll overwater...I know I did.

I have two or three days until harvest on a DWC under DIY LED and I can tell you guys that one plant is drinking at least 2.5 liters of water each day. I wonder how many liters would be evaporated by them in a HPS setup...

Oh, I must mention that the temperatures in my grow room never went above 27°C and below 22°C.

 

[PetFlora]

^^ Mine, too. One plant ~ 40" tall, 30 days in flower using ~ 1 quart per day under ~ 100 led watts + 50w Intense Spot

 

[Lazyeye]

Still looking, currently leaning towards:

2x http://growblu.com/120x3w-apollo-led-grow-light

Or

1x http://greenbeamslighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/GB-Reflector-with-Ballast.jpg