The true nature of our experience.

[HempKat]

are you serious about this?

authority is a concept...nothing else



the pope is the pope.

and maybe, Vinny the Night Janitor at the Vatican, is the real authority.

and I'm sure it's possible, considering what the Vatican stands behind and does in the world. Murder, lies, and all kinds of other BS.

There have been quite a few leaks that all the roots start at the Vatican, especially in relation to folks like the Illuminati and world bankers, etc.



you're mixing up beliefs and assumptions with truth.

the pope doesn't know and can't know the truth, but simply invent all kinds of BS based on his second-hand interpretations.

the truth is what is (for the fuckin millionth time folks) it can't be interpreted and layed out on the platter for the intellect to grasp.

the truth is PRIMARY.

interpretation of the truth is secondary.

stop mixing all up, start making distinctions between things and it will become quite clear how hypnotized you are by your thoughts.

...in fact, what you think you "are" is nothing but a thought



free will is free will...it is not true, in and in itself, it is also a concept created by the mind.

you are NOT free to choose what you want to believe...lol

you believe what you learned to believe/assume.

if you are not aware of this, my question again, is what have you been doing for so many years of your life?

...maybe you should try NOT thinking.

that would be a great first step toward wisdom.

and remember you can't think your way into the truth.

Again this is your opinion and perhaps true for you. It certainly doesn't come anywhere near truth for me or quite a few people that I know well enough to make such an assessment. Me and the people I'm talking about do choose to believe what we believe. Like for example me and the people I'm talking about believe that skin color or origin of birth or ancestry doesn't make a person inferior or superior to anyone else. Yet I am also aware that quite a few people in this country we live in do think that people's skin color or ancestry make them inferior or superior. If we all believed only what society teaches us to believe then we would all have the same thoughts about people of various skin colors or ancestry.

Oh and for the record, in the things you quoted above I wasn't mixing anything up I was giving examples that tend to disprove your blanket characterizations of things.

 

[HempKat]

...this might be the only problem in relation to your conclusions



the movie screen is obviously only an analogy.

the point is that there is an experience occuring NOW, and always and only NOW.

This experience is non-dual, there really is no screen and movie, there is only one, non-dual experience.

what veils this non-dual reality is thought.

concepts simply cloud reality, similar to how the clouds cover the sun on cloudy days.

but, the sun doesn't disappear in reality, it only seems that way.

same with this experience, it is one experience, but thought makes it seem as if a human being is separate from the rest of the world, but in reality that is not how it is.

if one actually looks into their experience without thoughts, he will clearly see that all there ever IS - is this experience.

there has never been anything and never will be anything except this experience that is occuring NOW.

this is simply a fact, that the majority of folks are resisting in their thinking. Why? I don't know.



this is for folks that are not aware that perception is secondary.

and obviously if someone is not there to see and hear the tree falling, then there can't be any tree there to see or fall.

anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't grasp how perception works.



actually life online is fundamentally the same as offline, interpretation of data, nothing more nothing less.



what I'm saying is to simply make a clear distinction between the screen and the movie, and grasp that fundamentally the screen remains while the movie ALWAYS ends.

No need to make that distinction since I don't watch movies and believe they are reality.

Oh and for the record, I didn't do any bong rips I was being sarcastic by implying I solved the flaw in your reasoning as a result of becoming stoned. Truth be told I've been out of weed for over a month now.

 

[HempKat]

actually, the future and past were thoughts that occured in the NOW.

...that was your imagination working...lol

and when the so-called-future arrived, it arrived as now, and obviously was different "in-nature" than your imagination of this now in your thinking.

you and Frank are like kids in a kindergarden...i swear

these things I'm describing about the now-experience are facts, to argue against them makes you look...well...kinda...childish

Well first of all that post wasn't directed at you. I know you like to think of this as your thread and apparently as such you feel the compulsion to treat everything as if it's all about you. All I was doing there was joking around with dank.Frank based on how he summed up your beliefs. Which would be obvious to any kindergartner by the fact that I quoted dank.Frank's summery just above where I said that.

As for what you're describing you are not describing facts you are describing your opinion and how I look debating with you about your opinion is also just your opinion. I seriously doubt dank.Frank thinks my debating with you makes me look childish. Actually I can state it more certainly then that because he's already indicated to me that he doesn't find my points childish just as there are others that have also indicated similar feelings which kind of disproves your notion that we can't choose how we think about things. If you were right and that was fact or truth then everyone would agree and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[HempKat]

I share my thoughts, and you straight call people idiots.

We want conflict? I think you want it.

Nice one troll. Nothing but hate, and hypocritical babble.

Seems like there is a lot of name calling, judgmental hypocrisy going on your side of the discussion too.

I don't know about you but when I see someone else label someone a troll simply because he doesn't agree with their posts I get the feeling that person wants conflict.

 

[southflorida]

Well first of all that post was directed at you. I know you like to think of this as your thread and apparently as such you feel the compulsion to treat everything as if it's all about you. All I was doing there was joking around with dank.Frank based on how he summed up your beliefs. Which would be obvious to any kindergartner by the fact that I quoted dank.Frank's summery just above where I said that.

As for what you're describing you are not describing facts you are describing your opinion and how I look debating with you about your opinion is also just your opinion. I seriously doubt dank.Frank thinks my debating with you makes me look childish. Actually I can state it more certainly then that because he's already indicated to me that he doesn't find my points childish just as there are others that have also indicated similar feelings which kind of disproves your notion that we can't choose how we think about things. If you were right and that was fact or truth then everyone would agree and we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.

...lol...the fact that all that ever exists and is experienced is NOW...can be called an opinion, but, it is not an opinion but a fact of the experience occuring now.

...if you think that the now-experience being the only thing we ever have going on, is an opinion, then you are not clearly looking at your experience, but instead using your intellect...or what I have been calling the self-mind.

...the self-mind functions on the illusion of past and future and can't really exist in the now for long, since the now-experience makes it crystal-clear that the self-mind and intellect are simply illusions...they are not real in and of themselves, but instead a function of imagination.

and...btw...if everyone in the world agreed to something being a fact or truth, this wouldn't make it a fact, and especially it wouldn't make it the truth...if they were all wrong.

the truth is what is, the truth can't be described or explained using language.

the best language can do is point at the truth, or be a representation of the truth.

but, the majority of folks actually mis-represent the truth and then confuse this mis-representation with the truth.

 

[HempKat]

...lol...the fact that all that ever exists and is experienced is NOW...can be called an opinion, but, it is not an opinion but a fact of the experience occuring now.

...if you think that the now-experience being the only thing we ever have going on, is an opinion, then you are not clearly looking at your experience, but instead using your intellect...or what I have been calling the self-mind.

...the self-mind functions on the illusion of past and future and can't really exist in the now for long, since the now-experience makes it crystal-clear that the self-mind and intellect are simply illusions...they are not real in and of themselves, but instead a function of imagination.

and...btw...if everyone in the world agreed to something being a fact or truth, this wouldn't make it a fact, and especially it wouldn't make it the truth...if they were all wrong.

the truth is what is, the truth can't be described or explained using language.

the best language can do is point at the truth, or be a representation of the truth.

but, the majority of folks actually mis-represent the truth and then confuse this mis-representation with the truth.

Nice job twisting my words around, I didn't say the now experience was an opinion I was referring to what you were saying and you've been saying a lot more then just the now experience is the only truth. Even what you say about the now experience though is just your opinion if it was the obvious indisputable proof you keep claiming it to be then few if any people would disagree with your take on it. Which obviously isn't the case since you claim to have been under attack since the very beginning.

I also didn't say anything about everyone in the world agreeing with a fact or truth makes it a fact or truth. What I said was that if you were correct about people not having the free will to choose how to think about things then we would all agree and probably not be having this discussion.

Like I said nice job twisting my words around although it's a pretty desperate and pathetic attempt at a comeback...in my opinion.

Oh and look, there you go again acting as if you personally know what the majority of folks say, think and do. What a freaking ego you got there.

 

[southflorida]

LOL - this thread has NOT been under attack - this thread has been pushed in a direction which forces to you actually EXPLAIN something vs simply repeat one liners and circular statements that NO ONE can do anything with.

you obviously have NOT looked through the thread then.

explain WHAT? Consciousness?

I said it CAN'T be explained using words, because words are a tool and are in the domain of secondary reality.

How can you use a hammer to explain what life is?

you can't.

I said that Consciousness is what IS.

This is simply not good enough for you, right?

Why? Because you are completely focused on your thoughts, and are not paying attention to your experience that is always and only occuring NOW.

You want answers where there are NO answers.

This is why you are so frustrated and right from the first post in this thread you have been demanding answers and getting mad for not getting them.

The simple fact what you are talking about has been discussed and expanded upon by MANY people over the years - should make you say, hmmmm...I think I'll look into that seeing how they thought the same way I am thinking - and perhaps I could learn more from their experiences and thoughts in / of life...

hearsay from other folks is second-hand

why use that, if I have direct-experience.

direct-experience is the only way to test if something is real and true

...there is simply no other way

But instead, you refuse - and then you decide to tell everyone how much "they don't get it" and how we aren't being open minded and how we can't see past ourselves - THAT is the only attack being made - via your back door self elevation and belittling of everyone that tries to interact with you...

ok, if you did get it, you wouldn't continue to write these kinds of posts over and over, especially after I have written many times that the answers lie inside your own direct-experience, and not in my explanations of my own direct-experience.

I can only point toward the truth, you have to actually pick your butt off the chair and go directly experience it for yourself

Never once have I said you were wrong - I have just said - there is MUCH more to what you are saying...much deeper aspects of it, that you are not acknowledging - and apparently, you are quite content at NOT knowing...

This is the ONLY place we differ:

Personally, I believe in growth and constant expansion of the mind - there is no plateau in life.

There might be deeper aspects, but they are not in the domain of language, but, once again, they are in the domain of experience.

...and they don't have nothing to do with the mind, but instead with awareness of who and what we "really" are.

...the mind is a self-survival mechanism that only help to keep us alive physically and socially, and NOTHING else.

You on the other hand, have one very tiny singular aspect upon which many branches of psychology have been built upon, yet REFUSE to examine them or grow in your understanding of what you yourself find to be meaningful. You've got it "ALL" figured out - and for that reason, you are stagnant and will remain so.

I don't have it all figured out. In fact, I have said many times, and probably will say many more, that the truth can't be known.

...it can be directly experienced, but it is NOT the mind that experiences, it is Consciousness that experiences.

...including experiencing the body/mind and the outside world.

This is where you are confused it seems, you believe and assume that your brain/mind/intellect is responsible for your Consciousness, while in my experience it is clearly obvious it is the other way around.

Consciousness is responsible and is aware of the body/mind and the outside world.

In your own direct experience you can clearly see this for yourself.

I tried. Did not attack - until you told me I was being childish and indirectly called me a moron - so yeah, like I said in my last post...

Your problem is obvious.

Done. Finished. Over it. Enjoy your limited world perspective. Have fun being developmentally challenged.

Step away from your self-identity and your thoughts, and take a look at your posts with "fresh eyes" - and you will see that there were no attacks from me, and that my perspective of you being childish is supported by the level of your posts.

your "intent" is quite clear to anyone looking from the side.

this "intent" has been quite clear for many posts in this thread and in other threads, and it is this "motivation" that is behind your posts that keeps you posting in this matter.

...you are simply not aware of this.

 

[southflorida]

Nice job twisting my words around, I didn't say the now experience was an opinion I was referring to what you were saying and you've been saying a lot more then just the now experience is the only truth. Even what you say about the now experience though is just your opinion if it was the obvious indisputable proof you keep claiming it to be then few if any people would disagree with your take on it. Which obviously isn't the case since you claim to have been under attack since the very beginning.

obviously, 99.9% of what we say is opinion (beliefs, assumptions) and these are not facts or the truth.

that is why I said that the now-experience is the only fact that actually exists in our direct-experience.

...for every being...I exist, here and now, is about the only fact that is undeniable.

...even if a human is hypnotized by his mind/intellect, he still exists here and now as a "being" - as an aware presence.

I also didn't say anything about everyone in the world agreeing with a fact or truth makes it a fact or truth. What I said was that if you were correct about people not having the free will to choose how to think about things then we would all agree and probably not be having this discussion.

I never said anything about anyone not having a free will...anywhere.

this is maybe an interpretation of something I said, but free will is quite obvious in the secondary reality.

Like I said nice job twisting my words around although it's a pretty desperate and pathetic attempt at a comeback...in my opinion.

Oh and look, there you go again acting as if you personally know what the majority of folks say, think and do. What a freaking ego you got there.

I actually don't see word-twisting, I'm answering directly, there is no need for me to comeback, I'm posting in here because this is a topic that interests me.

Directly I know only my own direct-experience.

...in-directly what others have said while talking to them.

...since I have been studying ontology for many years, I have talked to many folks in relation to the nature of reality.

...this is obviously second-hand knowledge, but it does point to how our self-mind works, and based on my direct-experience of how my own self-mind works, it does seem highly possible that our thinking works very similar.

...in other words, our self-mind interprets incoming data with the help of our sense organs and based on beliefs and assumptions recorded in the self-mind provides us with an interpretation of this data.

...BUT, and this is a BIG-BUT, - all this occurs inside the one, non-dual experience that is occuring NOW, and always and only NOW.

This now-experience being the doorway to actually experiencing the truth.

 

[Easy7]

I am seeing a lot of suffering in this thread. Suffering and avoiding suffering is the true nature of our experience. We are not dead souls who are transcedent of suffering. We are living souls, we require good times and beautiful experiences to forget what is inevitable. All the spiritual mumbo jumbo is a delusion for all we know. Nobody can really claim to know more about what is beyond. Suffering means we are responsible, if we didn't suffer we could do anything without any negative consequences. I wish there was a religion that was real, that really showed the true nature of our experience, so we could overcome the true nature of our experiences. Science isn't that great about overcoming our suffering either, too many details just yet!