The soilfoodweb or the microbial nutrient loop indoors

[h.h.]

have you ever broken up the rootball? growing tips are not "concentrated" on the outside wall. You should have branching everywhere.

If I don't let the plant get rootbound,I have little reason to break up the rootball.
I didn't say the roots were exclusive to the perimeter. They just like that space and grow well there. In a small pot you condense the initial growth, everything finds fresh soil when repotting. It doesn't grow back into itself.
Perhaps the plant sees the edge of the pot as an obstacle. In nature we have small rocks and boulders for the roots to cling to and forces them to branch. These obstacles provide space for air and water. In pots, the perimeter is the only obstacle. Problem with them in pots is that they take up valuable real estate. The better alternative is using extra large pots in the beginning and providing the obstacles. Chunks of char, pieces of coconut shell, what have you....I believe this from dissecting all my rootballs. Many will argue with me. It is really all theory on both sides. What I do know, and I think you might agree, is that by copying nature we are eminently more successful then when we try to force or control it. The further away we get the more we have to rely on artificial means and practices. While nature does not repot, it does create boundaries.

 

[Scrappy4]

Some of these suggestions are just growing style, or modus operandi, not good or bad per say, just how we so things because of the environments we might have. You have to adapt sometimes to fit what you have.

In my garden i take cuttings around the time of the "flip". These plants have the time their moms are in flower to grow. In my particular situation I have little room for large vegging plants. I veg in an 18 gallon tote.

In the 8-10 weeks, the cuttings are rooted the old fashioned way, in a domed tray, and in beer cups that have a hole punched in the bottom. I put an inch or two of amended soil in the bottom, the rest is filled with straight, untampered with pro mix. (In my state we are allowed 12 plants, whether they are unrooted cuttings or mature plants and we are only allowed 2.5 oz of usable mj, crazy, huh?) So while i only flower 4 at a time, i take 6-8 cuttings. The first time they are ready for transplant, the 4 strongest get transplanted into 2 gallon smart pots, around three weeks from taking them. So when their moms are finished, the small frys are around 25- 30 inches tall from the ground, and ready for another transplant. Once in the flower box, in fresh soil and larger pots, they get a week or two to fill the scrog screen, and fill up the available root area, my current batch was in for 10 days, then i had to flip as the screen was populated rather fast.

But if i had more room for vegging plants, my operation probably would be tweaked to fit the circumstances. But for me, this plan, and the timing work well.

I guess my rambling on and on point is, you have to use what you have, adapt and over come. As an example, anything over my 2.5 oz gets put in cloaking jars to make them invisible.......scrappy

 

[Microbeman]

I used a vertical system with 4 bins stacked and in a basic circle around 3 vertically hung 1000 watt hps. I posted a description & photos a long time ago in vertical gardens. I'll look for it later. Vertical may not suit your situation. There are drainage issues to deal with. If you have lights overhead you can make a more uniform growing bin. I had another one with overhead lights which was three feet deep but then I got shut down before I used it much.

Von; Here is the thread with the photos of the stacked bins. As I noted, someone using this would need to control drainage from upper bins to lower bins. [eg. with tubing]
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2682570#post2682570

 

[VerdantGreen]

superb stuff MM and all, is see a sticky in the making...

i think we have to avoid thinking the only way to do things is the way that works for you. on the subject of up-potting - this can be done without any stress to the plant as long it as done at the right time and in the right way. similarly, sticking a tiny plant into a huge pot is fine as long as you do it right and avoid over-watering.

keep it coming,

VG

 

[mad librettist]

superb stuff MM and all, is see a sticky in the making...

i think we have to avoid thinking the only way to do things is the way that works for you. on the subject of up-potting - this can be done without any stress to the plant as long it as done at the right time and in the right way. similarly, sticking a tiny plant into a huge pot is fine as long as you do it right and avoid over-watering.

keep it coming,

VG

well said VG.

to be good, you need to be doing things that work for you.

 

[Microbeman]

I mentioned once before that with our method, keeping rooted cuttings viable for up to 6weeks was an enormous challege. We would take our cuttings from the small plants prior to triggering flower [so at the same time we were trimming for extra branching & flowers]. We rooted our cuttings in jiffy pellets or seedling pots [72 to a tray] filled with sphagnum peat moss. We dipped the cuttings in water, then Glomus intraradices & Mossae spores, then dry rooting hormone then pluncked them into the media. The trays were all covered with a hood and under fluorescents until roots showed. Then we would keep a shallow layer of aerated compost tea in the trays, tipping them back and forth several times daily so the fluid slopped from one end to the other, serving to aerated the roots and the fluid. Every several days the compost tea would be changed. It was almost an organic hydro system. We ended up with many roots which were 2 feet long dangling from these little cuttings. I so wish I had taken photographs.

 

[vonforne]

Von; Here is the thread with the photos of the stacked bins. As I noted, someone using this would need to control drainage from upper bins to lower bins. [eg. with tubing]
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2682570#post2682570

Thanks MM you are a saint. I have been working this in my head non stop. This will give me some good ideas on what direction I want to take. I was just thinking of the narrow trays you described the other day.

These will give me a wider range to plan with or modify to fit my needs.

Thanks again.

V

 

[vonforne]

Vertical organic. I was thinking of this a few years ago. I have an idea already for drain trays. Now I have to get vertical lights also. LOL

V

 

[Scrogerman]

Before i even start to read the thread, i just know its gonna be a good one! Nice!

 

[Microbeman]

Thanks MM you are a saint. I have been working this in my head non stop. This will give me some good ideas on what direction I want to take. I was just thinking of the narrow trays you described the other day.

These will give me a wider range to plan with or modify to fit my needs.

Thanks again.

V

What I described or tried to describe is what's in the photo made of wood. I wouldn't call them narrow trays....more like window planter boxes.

 

[Microbeman]

Vertical organic. I was thinking of this a few years ago. I have an idea already for drain trays. Now I have to get vertical lights also. LOL

V

It's hard to see in the photo but we made our frame for mounting the HPS lights vertically with 8 to 12 inch iron pipe (plumbing) nipples with threaded couplings and Tees where we needed to attach a light fixture. (just need to drill some screw/bolt holes here and there) Pretty simple and cheap. You can make it as long or short as you wish.

 

[mad professor]

Hey MM, long time no talk, sorry! i moved out to a place without electricity not too long after we meet (i kinda managed my way back to civilization). great thread going here, i'm going to be getting up to some really fun stuff this summer and i'll keep you posted through here. a little piece of things to come is that i just identified some Glomus mushrooms sprouting out of the grow bags at the fruit greenhouse, i'm gonnna be doing alllot of fun microscope work all throughout the summer too. getting some dyes and sieves to be doing root-mycorrhizae inoculation checks, i'll see if i can get a camera to let everyone see.

and setting up a nice space i think you'll really dig. namaste

 

[vonforne]

It's hard to see in the photo but we made our frame for mounting the HPS lights vertically with 8 to 12 inch iron pipe (plumbing) nipples with threaded couplings and Tees where we needed to attach a light fixture. (just need to drill some screw/bolt holes here and there) Pretty simple and cheap. You can make it as long or short as you wish.

Uncle M, I had a rough draft before of those cheap large gutters you get at HD. I think they could be rigged to solve the drainage problem while keeping the medium soil. It would have to be tested but I do believe I could get it to work for us soil guys. I cannot remember the biggest deminsions that they were but for running clones and flowering at about 12 to 18 inches would work.

Now the gutters would be fitted with the down spout drains similar to your house with a filter system to catch the solid particles.

What is your opinion on recirculating this water through the system a couple times?

What set backs would you see? It would be a lot of work changing the rez each and every time you watered and hand watering is out of the question. Maybe in the beginning hand water would be best but not all of the time.

I like the idea with the lighting but how movable is it?

V

 

[h.h.]

well said VG.

to be good, you need to be doing things that work for you.

You also need to do things that don't work.
There are different approaches to the same problem. For any given situation though there is only 1 best approach. Staying in safe mode pretty much guarantees you won't find it. I always tell folks, "I'm growing compost".

While I can present an argument for repotting, I really try not to do it. Mostly things get reppotted when put outside where there is more space. As Von said, proper watering will do a lot.