The Official MMA Discussion
- Thread starter NateDizz
- Start date
NateDizz
Member
Thanks alot for the post bro. I was hoping you'd chime in and give me something to ponder and chew on.
Lesnar and Couture would be great fights that I'd love to see. Carwin and Dos Santos are a couple of up-and-comers that I also think would be exciting as well. Fedor already beat Mirko in his prime and he's looked nothing like his former self over the last couple of years. Unless he can beat Dos Santos in devastating fashion, it's just not a fight I'd care to see. Nogueira - a fight I'd tune in for, but after the first two brutal beatings he took in his prime at the hands of Fedor, what's the point? And Mir? Another one I would watch but is it really a fight you'd love to see?
Outside of the UFC you still have the best possible heavyweight match in the world, Fedor -vs- Barnett. It will never happen on this continent but it's still entirely possible overseas. Brett Rogers and Alistair Overeem would be fights equal to some of the ones you mentioned and since you mentioned Cro Cop and Noguiera, I can throw in Arlovski as well. Also, at this point guys like Rothwell, Monson, and Werdum would be just as legit as a Dos Santos. I'm not saying they are all better fights, I'm just saying there is plenty of great fights for Fedor outside of the UFC still. And plus, Fedor probably doesn't even have as many fights left in his career as we might think / hope.
I'm not talking paydays here either (where the UFC would obviously win in tremendous fashion), I'm talking legitimate fights. How much money a fight is gonna make shouldn't be a determiner of how good the fight is. The UFC is gonna make way more money than any other promotion if they were to put on the exact same fight.
You're absolutely right about the agent, not the manager, of a fighter being the one to negotiate contracts and fights for a fighter but in Fedor's case, Vadim Finkelstein is Fedor's manager, agent, boss, and anything else you can think of. Vadim is in complete control of Fedor. Vadim has the final say on anything and everything that has to do with Fedor's career.
And way too much of your argument comes down to money. Yes they could make him a ton of money, yes they could get him alot more exposure, etc, etc, etc. But like I said - he doesn't care about that and there's no reason he should. Are you telling me that every department store across the world should just shut down and go work for Wal-Mart because they might pay better and are the leading company on the planet at what they do? Is it dispicable if they don't? Every person that owns their own business shouldn't have to close shop because they arn't the leading company on the planet and arn't pulling in the most skrilla. Some people have more pride than that and are quite comfortable and happy to keep on keepin' on the way they have been. Are they "fucking stupid?" Some may say that, but those people are fucking stupid themselves.
Also, here's an article about this supposed $30 million dollar deal.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/m-1-fedor-not-offered-30-million-18816
Again, straight from the horses mouths and again a link was posted on here where the information came from some random source and it turned out to be bullshit. I can't stress my point enough, unless it's straight from the promotions, fighters, trainers, management / agents, or someone with direct ties there's a good chance it's not true. The UFC are probably so butt hurt right now that they're paying all these sites to post this ridiculous information to make Fedor look like the bad guy in all this. Naw, I don't actually think that, I'm just saying that MMA fans are notorious for taking everything they read at face value and you'd think that when time after time what they read was wrong they'd learn to not trust everything they see, hear, or read. You've posted two or three links over the last week that ended up being bogus. I choose to wait for official word or the word of one of the people I mentioned above before buying MMA related things. I might be a day or two behind getting the news but atleast I know it's correct. I fell for way too many rumours years ago and this business has 100 times more than it did back then. I follow all the rumours and I keep them in mind but I don't go talking or posting about them as fact until it's been confirmed.
Absolutely not. Neither of them need each other. Fedor's already rich and he's already carved his legacy as the greatest heavyweight of all time. He could quit fighting today if he wanted. Alot of these UFC fanboys will probably cry out that he's a coward and Lesnar is the greatest of all time, blah blah blah, but true MMA fans and the publications that matter will always know who he was. You think he cares what all the UFC fanboys think of him? I doubt it.
Hahah, naw man never heard it. Is this for real?
EDIT - In a nutshell, My opinion on the whole thing is that it's unfortunate that the deal wasn't made, and it does blow my mind that Fedor could be offered a deal the same or even better than Anderson, Georges, and everyone else and not find it acceptable, but I respect his decision and I think it's sad and rediculous that people are reacting the way they are.
And thanks again for the post, I have to spread some rep. around before giving it to you again.
Lesnar and Couture would be great fights that I'd love to see. Carwin and Dos Santos are a couple of up-and-comers that I also think would be exciting as well. Fedor already beat Mirko in his prime and he's looked nothing like his former self over the last couple of years. Unless he can beat Dos Santos in devastating fashion, it's just not a fight I'd care to see. Nogueira - a fight I'd tune in for, but after the first two brutal beatings he took in his prime at the hands of Fedor, what's the point? And Mir? Another one I would watch but is it really a fight you'd love to see?
Outside of the UFC you still have the best possible heavyweight match in the world, Fedor -vs- Barnett. It will never happen on this continent but it's still entirely possible overseas. Brett Rogers and Alistair Overeem would be fights equal to some of the ones you mentioned and since you mentioned Cro Cop and Noguiera, I can throw in Arlovski as well. Also, at this point guys like Rothwell, Monson, and Werdum would be just as legit as a Dos Santos. I'm not saying they are all better fights, I'm just saying there is plenty of great fights for Fedor outside of the UFC still. And plus, Fedor probably doesn't even have as many fights left in his career as we might think / hope.
I'm not talking paydays here either (where the UFC would obviously win in tremendous fashion), I'm talking legitimate fights. How much money a fight is gonna make shouldn't be a determiner of how good the fight is. The UFC is gonna make way more money than any other promotion if they were to put on the exact same fight.
You're absolutely right about the agent, not the manager, of a fighter being the one to negotiate contracts and fights for a fighter but in Fedor's case, Vadim Finkelstein is Fedor's manager, agent, boss, and anything else you can think of. Vadim is in complete control of Fedor. Vadim has the final say on anything and everything that has to do with Fedor's career.
And way too much of your argument comes down to money. Yes they could make him a ton of money, yes they could get him alot more exposure, etc, etc, etc. But like I said - he doesn't care about that and there's no reason he should. Are you telling me that every department store across the world should just shut down and go work for Wal-Mart because they might pay better and are the leading company on the planet at what they do? Is it dispicable if they don't? Every person that owns their own business shouldn't have to close shop because they arn't the leading company on the planet and arn't pulling in the most skrilla. Some people have more pride than that and are quite comfortable and happy to keep on keepin' on the way they have been. Are they "fucking stupid?" Some may say that, but those people are fucking stupid themselves.
Also, here's an article about this supposed $30 million dollar deal.
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/m-1-fedor-not-offered-30-million-18816
Again, straight from the horses mouths and again a link was posted on here where the information came from some random source and it turned out to be bullshit. I can't stress my point enough, unless it's straight from the promotions, fighters, trainers, management / agents, or someone with direct ties there's a good chance it's not true. The UFC are probably so butt hurt right now that they're paying all these sites to post this ridiculous information to make Fedor look like the bad guy in all this. Naw, I don't actually think that, I'm just saying that MMA fans are notorious for taking everything they read at face value and you'd think that when time after time what they read was wrong they'd learn to not trust everything they see, hear, or read. You've posted two or three links over the last week that ended up being bogus. I choose to wait for official word or the word of one of the people I mentioned above before buying MMA related things. I might be a day or two behind getting the news but atleast I know it's correct. I fell for way too many rumours years ago and this business has 100 times more than it did back then. I follow all the rumours and I keep them in mind but I don't go talking or posting about them as fact until it's been confirmed.
Absolutely not. Neither of them need each other. Fedor's already rich and he's already carved his legacy as the greatest heavyweight of all time. He could quit fighting today if he wanted. Alot of these UFC fanboys will probably cry out that he's a coward and Lesnar is the greatest of all time, blah blah blah, but true MMA fans and the publications that matter will always know who he was. You think he cares what all the UFC fanboys think of him? I doubt it.
Hahah, naw man never heard it. Is this for real?
EDIT - In a nutshell, My opinion on the whole thing is that it's unfortunate that the deal wasn't made, and it does blow my mind that Fedor could be offered a deal the same or even better than Anderson, Georges, and everyone else and not find it acceptable, but I respect his decision and I think it's sad and rediculous that people are reacting the way they are.
And thanks again for the post, I have to spread some rep. around before giving it to you again.
NateDizz
Member
Anyone follow Sengoku?
Their Ninth Battle is only a few days away and the card isn't too bad at all. Satoru Kitaoka will be defending his lightweight title for the first time against Mizuto Hirota and the semi-finals and finals of the featherweight grand prix will be taking place. The winner of Hatsu Hioki -vs- Masanori Kanehara will take on the winner of Marlon Sandro -vs- Michihiro Omigawa in the finals for all the marbles. Also, lightweight standout Eiji Mitsuoka will be fighting Clay French.
Hopefully someone else is interested and has something to say because I think my head is going to explode soon if I hear or see Fedor and the UFC in the same sentence too many more times. hahah.
Their Ninth Battle is only a few days away and the card isn't too bad at all. Satoru Kitaoka will be defending his lightweight title for the first time against Mizuto Hirota and the semi-finals and finals of the featherweight grand prix will be taking place. The winner of Hatsu Hioki -vs- Masanori Kanehara will take on the winner of Marlon Sandro -vs- Michihiro Omigawa in the finals for all the marbles. Also, lightweight standout Eiji Mitsuoka will be fighting Clay French.
Hopefully someone else is interested and has something to say because I think my head is going to explode soon if I hear or see Fedor and the UFC in the same sentence too many more times. hahah.
EvilRaven1031
Member
take out the thought bubble and that might be one of the greatest gifs ever!
Gina had better have stepped her game up, cause Cyborg is no freekin joke. I wonder how she is doing with her weight... We all know shes had problems in the past. Though when i think about it i still feel she will come out on top in this one. (damn that sounds dirty)
WAR Cankles!!!
Gina had better have stepped her game up, cause Cyborg is no freekin joke. I wonder how she is doing with her weight... We all know shes had problems in the past. Though when i think about it i still feel she will come out on top in this one. (damn that sounds dirty)
WAR Cankles!!!
NateDizz
Member
The UFC held a media conference call today and confirmed some big news that there has been alot of speculation about. Vitor has signed and will be fighting Rich at UFC 103 at 205 pounds which is good news for Hendo who Dana said was “definitely next in line” for Anderson's middleweight title. I'm stuck wondering if Vitor will stay at 205 or if this is just temporary. Personally I'd like to see him return to middleweight.
Also, Tito has returned as well and will probably fight in November or December, possibly against Mark Coleman according to Dana. "Tito and I set all our differences aside. Tito Ortiz will retire in the UFC.” Considering the UFC's 205 pound division is so strong I think it'd be a perfect fight for him to get back in the promotion with a W.
“For me, personally, it’s about the competition,” Ortiz said. “Financially and everything, I’m OK. Competition was the biggest factor. If I fight for Strikeforce, who am I going to fight? The best fighters are in the UFC. I’m happy. You’ll never hear anything about money out of my mouth ever again.”
“I’m healthy,” he said. “There’s no more pain, no more numbness going down my legs. Everybody in the light heavyweight division better watch out.”
Also, Tito has returned as well and will probably fight in November or December, possibly against Mark Coleman according to Dana. "Tito and I set all our differences aside. Tito Ortiz will retire in the UFC.” Considering the UFC's 205 pound division is so strong I think it'd be a perfect fight for him to get back in the promotion with a W.
“For me, personally, it’s about the competition,” Ortiz said. “Financially and everything, I’m OK. Competition was the biggest factor. If I fight for Strikeforce, who am I going to fight? The best fighters are in the UFC. I’m happy. You’ll never hear anything about money out of my mouth ever again.”
“I’m healthy,” he said. “There’s no more pain, no more numbness going down my legs. Everybody in the light heavyweight division better watch out.”
vitor and franklin are fighting at 195.
anyone miss the ultimate fighting special the other night? here ya go...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/86545/cnbc-originals-ultimate-fighting-fistful-of-dollars
anyone miss the ultimate fighting special the other night? here ya go...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/86545/cnbc-originals-ultimate-fighting-fistful-of-dollars
Carl Spackler
Member
Strikefore gets Fedor.
Showtime > UFC
Screw Dana White...
Showtime > UFC
Screw Dana White...
kimbo slice will save the ufc
EvilRaven1031
Member
No, what it does mean is that Strikeforce is no longer gonna be considered a small fish. It also probably means that Brett Rogers is a likely fight now.
Now this is a theory,,,
Does this mean that Strikeforce agreed to give up "half" to M-1?? That was their definition of co-promotion, without which no deal could be accepted, right?
No matter what the organization, that just doesnt sound like such a sweet deal to me. Strikeforce has worked pretty fuckin hard to come even a distant second in the MMA world. Why would they want to cut someone in on HALF to get one fighter. Granted they could use some of the lesser known ones...but come on, this deal is to get Fedor. Period
Now this is a theory,,,
Does this mean that Strikeforce agreed to give up "half" to M-1?? That was their definition of co-promotion, without which no deal could be accepted, right?
No matter what the organization, that just doesnt sound like such a sweet deal to me. Strikeforce has worked pretty fuckin hard to come even a distant second in the MMA world. Why would they want to cut someone in on HALF to get one fighter. Granted they could use some of the lesser known ones...but come on, this deal is to get Fedor. Period
EvilRaven1031
Member
NateDizz
Member
Went away for the weekend and was pretty shocked to see that Fedor has signed a deal with Strikeforce but I'm not complaining. Definitely the next best thing if it couldn't be the UFC. I think a Fedor -vs- Brett Rogers fight would be tremendous. We havn't seen Brett on the ground much, and I'm sure he'd be very vulnerable in the bottom position especially considering Fedor has some of the nastiest ground and pound on the planet, but he has all the power needed to knock out anyone.
Haha, and thanks for that picture Raven. Just finished watching Sengoku myself. A solid event but I definitely have to say the new "must decision" rule turned out to be pretty ugly. Marlon Sandro got robbed big time. It should have been a clear-cut unanimous decision (I called it 30-27) but the two judges calling the fight a draw then giving their decision to Omigawa was completely ludicrous. Even the third judge calling it 30-29 was quite rediculous. And that wasn't the only case of this "must decision" rule turning out questionable decisions.
It was too bad that Hioki had to pull out of the finals too after such a dominant win over Kanehara. The fact that the finals should have been Sandro -vs- Hioki and ended up being Omigawa -vs- Kanehara, the two guys who clearly lost their respective bouts in the semi-finals was sickening.
The title bout was great though. I'm a big fan of Hirota and I had him winning this fight by decision even though he was the big underdog so I was very happy to see him get the TKO.
Haha, and thanks for that picture Raven. Just finished watching Sengoku myself. A solid event but I definitely have to say the new "must decision" rule turned out to be pretty ugly. Marlon Sandro got robbed big time. It should have been a clear-cut unanimous decision (I called it 30-27) but the two judges calling the fight a draw then giving their decision to Omigawa was completely ludicrous. Even the third judge calling it 30-29 was quite rediculous. And that wasn't the only case of this "must decision" rule turning out questionable decisions.
It was too bad that Hioki had to pull out of the finals too after such a dominant win over Kanehara. The fact that the finals should have been Sandro -vs- Hioki and ended up being Omigawa -vs- Kanehara, the two guys who clearly lost their respective bouts in the semi-finals was sickening.
The title bout was great though. I'm a big fan of Hirota and I had him winning this fight by decision even though he was the big underdog so I was very happy to see him get the TKO.
Backwoods Bud
Member
IMO, If Fedor never fights for the UFC title, his legacy will be a hollow one.
Carl Spackler
Member
Interesting considering what he has done to previous UFC champs...
It would not be easy for Fedor against Lesnar but in reality Lesnar has little skills, just size and weight. If the fight ever comes to be I'll bet the mortgage on Fedor...
Carl Spackler
Member
Strikeforce and Dream have announced an alliance.
Maybe finally some competition for UFC...
Maybe finally some competition for UFC...
Backwoods Bud
Member
The UFC is the one and only Major League in MMA. IMO
Of course, I watch all the promotions minus M-1.
I also agree that Fedor would hold the belt in the UFC.
My point is that the UFC is THE premiere MMA promotion without question.
The UFC title carries some weight, What about Pride champs? How many people remember them? Not a lot. Promotions come and go, hopefully Strikeforce will continue to be a profitable and solid promotion. I'd bet the farm that the UFC will only get bigger and isn't going anywhere.
Carl Spackler
Member
Yes it would be hard to stop the UFC juggernaut at this time.
Interesting read here on maybe why Fedor didnt sign http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2009/08/04/showdown_collatoral_damage/
Dana's a snake, the fighters need some form of representation.
The UFC banks big of the backs of the fighters and if your not a headliner well, your not going to the bank with much. I saw salaries from a recent show and one of the early fighters was paid $8500 and his match was televised. I'm sorry but that is pathetic. I'll bet Dana's bar tab has exceeded that many times.
Interesting read here on maybe why Fedor didnt sign http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/2009/08/04/showdown_collatoral_damage/
Dana's a snake, the fighters need some form of representation.
The UFC banks big of the backs of the fighters and if your not a headliner well, your not going to the bank with much. I saw salaries from a recent show and one of the early fighters was paid $8500 and his match was televised. I'm sorry but that is pathetic. I'll bet Dana's bar tab has exceeded that many times.
