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The numbers on single solvent dewaxing? not good

soysoz

Member
This is unfortunate. The thread has some great concerns that could/should be brought to light in the community.



Wouldn't an absolute have less terpenes than concrete? Could medicinal quality in fact be diminished by such?

I'm just playing devil's advocate to get to put things into perspective. I would also consider an absolute to be a cleaner product, but I often wonder at what cost? Flowers seems to have the most medicinal content, and nature has provided it to us, but their power cannot compare to concentrates, and ROA becomes a problem with any serious tolerance.

Could vaporized dry sift be some middle ground? I personally prefer thin layer evap'd crumble over low heat. For flavor as well as ease of use. Winterization has given me mixed results, none of which provided any actual absolute, at least by looks alone.

Not all medicine is relevant to a patient. Just because quinine helps prevent malaria doesn't mean that I need it in my antibiotics if I don't have it. Some patients need terpenes to aid in the metabolic pathway and in achieving many of the common effects of being high...but many don't.

Example: My mother stands to benefit from THC, CBN, and CBG lowering her eye pressure. The inclusion of terpenoids/flavonoids tends to have an increased effect on reducing blood pressure (which is bad for her) as well as makes her feel high which is not something she tolerates. I would much rather give her tiny doses of a decarboxylated oil which has lost many of these compounds to heat.

Terpenes are not a gold standard and I think there's a bit of an obsession going on with them. Yes they are what gives smell, flavor, potency, etc., but you have to remember that there are HUNDREDS of compounds in the plant and only a handful of them are known to do anything in particular. Just as I would not smoke the bark of a cinchona tree to get quinine into my system, I would not smoke weed or shatter just to get thc in my system if it were a matter of life and death. The problem: it often is.
 

soysoz

Member
Would you mind sharing some pics of your winterized dry sift? I'd love to see what you mean and what you think happened.
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I am pretty sure he was referring to winterized extracts, not dry sift.
I have never heard of winterized dry sift.
-SamS
 

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
I have smoked pure THC and THC acetate and like marinol they are lacking. As to your statement about terpenes I agree to a point. I guess you did not read the point that one can easily steam distill out a potent terpene fraction to add back to an extract deemed lacking. Also as I said a second solvent product is NOT devoid of effective terpenes it is just lower. This is for a vaporized product though only all a fully terpenated product does in an edible is make it bitter then you stomach denatures them.
And yes I have added back linalool, mycene , limonene and pinene to the product and found an interesting effect from single moieties that has led to an emerging theory of a triphasic entourage effect that includes the flavinoids that modulate the receptor bed

When you say you have smoked pure THC and THC acatate, was that with the terpenes were added back to or was it just an extraction that they were added to? Have you added any of the 23 flavinoids to pure THC? Which? What were the effects? Did they modulate the THC effects?
-SamS
 
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LSWM

Active member
Would you mind sharing some pics of your winterized dry sift? I'd love to see what you mean and what you think happened.

I am pretty sure he was referring to winterized extracts, not dry sift.
I have never heard of winterized dry sift.
-SamS

Sam's got it. Without some further analysis, my winterized product looks basically identical to the original. This could be due to a whipping action that takes place when repeatedly scraping and flattening to a thin layer.

Next time I will try for a low agitation method and see if I can get any absolute like is found in Jump's thread.
 

soysoz

Member
Sam's got it. Without some further analysis, my winterized product looks basically identical to the original. This could be due to a whipping action that takes place when repeatedly scraping and flattening to a thin layer.

Next time I will try for a low agitation method and see if I can get any absolute like is found in Jump's thread.

How long do you winterize for? Anything less than 24h is questionable timing, IMHO, just in terms of how coagulated the waxes get. I've just spent the past 30 minutes trying to whip some absolute sap into any other consistency and it's still see through, save a few trapped air bubbles.
 

LSWM

Active member
How long do you winterize for? Anything less than 24h is questionable timing. IMHO, just in terms of how coagulated the waxes get. I've just spent the past 30 minutes trying to whip some absolute sap into any other consistency and it's still see through, save . few trapped air bubbles.

All equipment starts at room temperature. I use some low heat to help dissolve the product in ethanol, 95%. . I then put everything into tge freezer after it cools to room temperature. It stays there for at least 24 hours and I then filter using previously frozen utensils.

Ive read slower temp fluctuation produces better crystalization but have not tried going fridge to freezer. I have only done this twice, the second time I did the process again on the already winterized product and produced more precipitates after freezing, although significantly less than the first pass. I decided to give up on the product at that point when there was no visual difference between the two.

I will try again with better starting material and see how it goes. I essentially chalked my failure up to inferior product rather than improper procedure, but I dont know that is the case for sure or not.
 

Wayzer

Active member
haven't read a soap opera like this in a while!

but between the hate, theres Lots of interesting info going on here....
would love to see this discussion continue whiterasta...
 

soysoz

Member
Great links. Almost got through all three, but they made it easy to skip around.

For those looking for the TL;DR - there are two main problems with not winterizing properly:

1) unknown reactions: the dissolution of trichomes creates an environment in which any number of chemical reactions can happen to form different waxes and lipids that are not naturally expressed as phytocannabinoids. The danger is in the recombinatory processes that occur.

2) even at the most minute amounts, the vapor levels of these waxes still exceed what was once set as an industry standard for the exposure limits in the workplace, over an 8 hour period. compare that to dabbing all day every day and it doesn't paint a pretty picture
 

soysoz

Member
3) the breakdown products of the paraffin vapors are potentially just as toxic, if not more, and include benzene and toluene.

also to add to 1) this is happening as a result of using a nonpolar solvent (hence the dissolution of the waxes, in particular.)
 
Just wanted to sincerely thank all of you for the informative discussion. This is information that most of us would never otherwise have access to and it is greatly appreciated.

It always makes me bummed when otherwise-great-minds lose the plot and everything descends into pissing matches, insults and organ-measuring. Brilliant minds seem to often come with fragile egos. Y'all need to lighten up a bit. Just sayin'.



Regardless, thank you all.
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran

Dr Joe

New member
whiterasta f/u

whiterasta f/u

hey mahn,
has your article been published? if yes please send the citation.
i think you are on the mark. where legalization comes, regulation is sure to follow right behind. we are extracting and want to be ahead of the curve. do you do consulting?
 

cyclopath

New member
we don't need no stinkin waxes

we don't need no stinkin waxes

Not an excuse but I have Asberger's and often come off wrong.

Ha! which is why we call it AssBurgers around my house [runs in the family ;-)]

-niggle

---
I don't have Asberger's, I'm f**kin Australian! [London Irish]
 
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