The Marijuana Tax War Has Begun!

[easyrasta]

The fuckers at the mmpp are pushing a bill in az that prohibits growing for personal use unless you are 25 miles away from a licenses provider.
setting it up for big business to sell pot, and only to those that are dying or suffering debilitating illness.
fuckem
Ez

 

[Amstel Light]

My take on it is that the cannabiz sponsored initiative is really just being floated in order to divide the vote and kill ANY form of legalization in its crib. The profits are greater if the legal status of MJ remains as it is.

Its a shrewd move.

divide and conquer yep

I for one am willing to see cannabis "illegal" for another decade."

must be nice living where u live? the rest of the country still gets booked for a roach....

I think they should tax and regulate the hell out of it, only the rich will be purchasing it in the taxable form.. do you really think they will be hunting down the thousands or even tens of thousands unregulated bedroom/closet grows?


I would gladly pay my annual 2500$ to grow commercially, happy as hell (if i had to) to pay the 50$ per zip tax...What is the argument again?


Also if taxing it could get cali out of the deep financial trouble it's in think how fast the rest of the country will adopt it.My question is what do you do with all the poor souls withering away in prison on weed charges? FREE THEM AND KEEP RAPIST AND MURDERES LONGER MAYBE!! ??

 

[Possum]

my choice wasn't up there. treat it like alcohol or cigarettes. if you want to make your own at home - then you are free to.

However, when you start running a business and selling to others too lazy to grow their own - then the sales can/should be taxed.

straight up state sales tax. with the possibility of some kind of 'sin' tax (not that i would like that, but the non-users will want it).

also, to be a legal seller maybe something like a liquor license. then regular tax accounting like any other business. like any other legal thing. Cannabis should not be given special treatment above every other marketed substance in the world (as much as i sometimes wish it would).

This is FAIR to EVERYONE. I think almost EVERYONE can agree to this. The system is already in place. it's the american way.

------

i think what we are seeing here is one giant brainstorming session where everyone is looking for something that is fair and legal to all.

passions run high here. remember that for the most part we are all on the same side. lets take some time to look for solutions and places where we can agree, then debate the rest - with out the childish name calling.

also, no one knows what tomorrow may bring. but as for today - this is my choice, i hope you can see the logic.

IF there are issues with the above outlined strategy - i will listen.

no plant limits. no per plant tax. no tax for those growing their own. only tax those who are using cannabis as a business tool. tax sales on the dollar amount charged for the end product.

alright, i'm giving off a broken record vibe now...so i'll go.

 

[Stoner4Life]

My choices for your query.......

My choices for your query.......



I had to go w/three picks on this one in an attempt to
outline my thoughts on the subject, I'll detail below.......

1)Could/should be sold and taxed to some degree.
2)Allow anyone to grow & sell w/tax stamps affixed.
Allow any individual to grow & use w/o taxation.
3)Allow collectives for those w/o connections which
allows their comfort level for advice & personal safety.
4)Statewide laws to avoid ambiguity issues and finally
to take away federal statutes for possession w/the
exception of large scale smuggling operations/seizures.

 

[GertBFrow]

I dunno I hold a very unpopular belief that medical marijuana should be legalized and should have the proper legislation to provide a real way of getting the medicine out....

But I like to think that I belong to a special secret club where the people I hate are kept out by stupidity and I love that. I've never been on the recieving end of a sentance for pot, but plenty of retards who I hate because of their ignorance have been. Its like a social darwinisim. Keep the fuck heads out, keeep the true heads in. I dont want to be hearing about all the fires caused by retards that know nothing, all the b.s. that would just reverse whatever bill that granted them access to the club.
Just imagine if baseball was illegal, all the true fans would stay, but the posers and drunkerds would be gone. And the cat and mouse would begin.
I like things the way they are with extreme exception of medical marijuana. Not to mention full legalization would hinder the acceptance of medical mj as a true medicine.
Once it gets legalized, all the fuck heads will be in our club, and that will be the day my wallet gets linked to the state's banks for all the tax money for technicalities and fines.
I bet ppl really think that legalization is a good thing, IT'S NOT!
I dont have to buy "stickers", have my license on me, pay fees for bullshit I have no part in, sit in lines to talk to rude assholes to get the bureaucratic bullshit straighted out. I think cali is gonna fuck the rest of the US up for the worst.
The US is near bankruptcy, in 10 years it wont matter if its legal or not because they wont have the funds to tell you shit.
BUT if we gove up OUR favorite plant for THEIR TAXES, they'll be in good shape for a long time.
Fuck em'.

 

[Amstel Light]

I bet ppl really think that legalization is a good thing, IT'S NOT!
'.

Thats one fucktard post..... sorry man, no exclusive membership, no elite....
just sick folks trying to feel better and other folks expanding their minds.....and being persecuted for it.

 

[mriko]

Quote:
I bet ppl really think that legalization is a good thing, IT'S NOT!

Well, actually if done the wrong way it could proove disastrous for the plant itself. Some regulations will have to be implemented, ya can't just make free for all if you want to harvest all the benefit a legal market can bring in, to the most !

I don't see what's wrong with paying taxes. Personnaly I would be more than glad to pay taxes on an ounce of good imported Mazar-e-Sharif charas or riamba from the depths of Congo jungles (I don't believe in local legalizations, must be global, period.). There are countries where cannabis production have been part of the history, culture & identity (just like wine in France) since ages and those countries are prevented from marketing a traditionnal natural ressource by racists & fascists laws forced upon them by UN & US, with no other goal than maintaining those countries in poverty & under-development, therefore dependent on foreign aid, usually available "on condition".
I would be happy to pay taxes in a controlled & regulated international trade (more or less like that of UN-regulated opium trade), where each level could receive its share.

A well-thought & well-applied global legalization has the potential to truly change the world, and it's kinda nonsensical to waste ones energies into some sterile local money war. California would earn way more from a global legalization than from a local one as a leading area in terms of medicinal cannabis, with local & long-established medicinal strains would be allowed for export.
Groan... I thought we had entered, err, how they call that, oh yeah, the Globalization era ? Take it as Global + Legalization = Global-ization ! haha ! Struggling for local legalization is actually like going backward. Forget about the "Think global, act local " & shift to "Think galactic, act global".

I mean, there are people from so many countries here, a true global community, but I see no global movement working for a global legalization. Except for thi world mj march or something which happens every year early May. Not really the kind of stuff which can lead us really forward. We're not going to change anything with a yearly smokey walk.

Anyway, be it global or local, a legalization allowing personnal production should imply taxation of wattage with different rates according to thepower you're using, and why not some limitation on wattage per home. Just imagine the crazy increase of indoor production there would be in a legal all-allowed frame, so that must be controlled too.

Irie !

 

[Skip]

CCI's volunteer Initiative below is the best of all that I've seen so far. While it does allow the taxation of commercial sales, it prohibits the taxation of private sales. Has it been approved to get signatures yet?

WHY DOES THIS INITIATIVE HAVE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME TITLE AS THE OAKSTERDAM INITIATIVE, EVEN IF IT'S DIFFERENT?

Here it is. Read it and REJOICE! It's the best of 'em!
More info here: http://www.californiacannabisinitiative.org/index.php/our-initiative.html (thanks for posting that up CCI).

Why I like it:
Repeals all cannabis sentences!
Repeals all existing laws against cannabis!
Allows for growing, possessing, sales, etc.
Allows for all paraphernalia.
Doesn't restrict ANYTHING except sales to minors.
No special compensation/market exclusivity for existing cannabizes.
Designates where tax $ are to be spent - good public works and health care!
It allows for businesses that permit marijuana smoking on the premises - like Amsterdam's Coffeeshops!
It requires more info on the cannabis origins, chemicals used, organic certification, etc. This is GREAT!

The Tax, Regulate, and Control Cannabis Act of 2010

Section 1: Name

This Act shall be known as the “The Tax, Regulate, and Control Cannabis Act of 2010.”

Section 2: Findings

This Act, adopted by the People of the State of California, is intended to:

1. Prohibit furnishing cannabis to minors below the age of 21, unless for medical use.
2. Repeal all existing state and local laws that criminally prohibit or punish cannabis and associated cannabis related activities.
3. Permit the possession, use, sharing, cultivation, transportation, and other activities related to cannabis by persons over the age of 21.
4. Mandate the State government to adopt reasonable laws to permit, license, control and issue taxes for the commercial cultivation and sales of cannabis.
5. Permit the cultivation, processing, sales, transportation and distribution of industrial hemp.
6. Authorize local governments to adopt ordinances, rules and regulations regarding such licensed businesses, including appropriate zoning, permits, licenses, safety, and environmental laws to protect the general health and welfare of the public.
7. Punish those who violate this Act and prevent any state or local agency from prohibiting or obstructing the terms or spirit of this Act
8. Make cannabis available for scientific, medical, industrial and research purposes.
9. Permit the State of California to fulfill obligations under the United States Constitution to enact laws concerning health, morals, public welfare and safety.
10. Continue to enforce all laws relating to driving and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Section 3: Definitions

For purposes of this Act:

a. “Cannabis” means all parts from plants of the Genus Cannabis, whether growing or not; seeds thereof; resin extracted from any part of the plant; concentrated cannabis; edible products containing cannabis; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the plant, its seeds, or resin. The terms “Marijuana” and “Cannabis” are interchangeable for the purposes of this Act.

b. “Industrial hemp” means an agricultural field crop that is limited to non-psychoactive varieties of the Cannabis plant having no more than three-tenths of one percent tetrahydrocannabinol contained in the dried flowering tops, that is cultivated and processed exclusively for the purpose of producing the mature stalks of the plant, fiber produced from the stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of the plant, or any other compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the mature stalks (except the resin or flowering tops extracted therefrom), fiber, oil, or cake, or the sterilized seed of the plant which is incapable of germination.

Section 4: Cannabis Control, Decriminalization, Regulation, and Taxation

Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:

Section 11300: Laws Permitting Cannabis Activities by Adults Aged 21 and Over

(a) It is lawful, and not a crime or public offense under California law for persons aged 21 and older to engage in the following acts or activities related to the plant genus cannabis: possession, transportation, use, furnishing, sales, cultivation, or processing.

(1) Persons aged 21 and over may cultivate reasonable amounts of cannabis for their personal use. Amounts cultivated beyond personal use needs are subject to commercial restrictions, taxes and fees imposed pursuant to this Act.

(2) All persons aged 21 and over may possess objects, items, tools, equipment, products and material associated with activities permitted under this Act. This includes scales or other weighing devices.

(b) This Act hereby repeals all state laws that prohibit cannabis possession, sales, transportation, production, processing, and cultivation, and removes cannabis from any other statutes pertaining to the regulation of controlled substances, whether now existing or enacted in the future, including but not limited to the following:

(1) Health and Safety Code Sections 11014.5 and 11364 [relating to drug

paraphernalia]; 11054 [relating to cannabis or tetrahydrocannabinols]; 11357 [relating to possession]; 11358 [relating to cultivation]; 11359 [relating to possession for sale]; 11360 [relating to transportation and sales]; 11361 [related to minors]; 11366 and 11366.5 [related to maintaining a place for cultivation, sales]; 11370 [relating to punishment]; 11379.6 [relating to processing]; 11470 [relating to forfeiture]; 11479 [relating to seizure and destruction]; 11703 [relating to definitions regarding illegal substances]; 11705 [actions for use of illegal controlled substance]; Vehicle Code sections 23222 and 40000.15 [relating to possession].

(c) This act is not intended to affect the application California Vehicle Code §23152

[relating to driving while impaired] and Penal Code §272 [relating to

contributing to the delinquency of a minor].

(d) This Act strictly prohibits all sales of cannabis outside the State of California unless such sales are not inconsistent with federal or international law.

(e) This Act shall be retroactive, and by operation of law expunges the conviction of anyone previously convicted of a cannabis offense.

(f) The Act prohibits any person from being denied any right or privilege for conduct in accordance with this article. No person shall be discriminated against regarding, but not limited to, healthcare, education, employment, retirement, and insurance, for conduct permitted by this Act.

Section 11301: State and Local laws to Control and Regulate Commercial Cannabis

California state and local governments shall adopt reasonable ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize the following:

(a) Commercial cultivation, production, processing, distribution, and sales of cannabis for commercial and personal uses, including:

(1) Establishments, open to the public, that sell and/or allow on-premises smoking and other use of cannabis, and;

(2) Locations engaged in the commercial propagation, cultivation, processing and/or distribution of cannabis, and;

(3) Any other entity or location needed to further activities permitted and/or mandated by this Act.

(b) Local governments may create regulations of any such establishment in accordance with this article including but not limited to environmental, accessibility, and zoning ordinances.

(c) Local governments are prohibited from banning establishments, businesses, and other entities engaged in any conduct allowed by this Act.

(d) The State shall create appropriate regulations to ensure uniform and orderly implementation of this Act including regulations, laws, and other acts having the force of law, requiring that any such permitted or licensed business, facility or premises:

(1) prevent any harm to the environment,

(2) have appropriate controls to ensure protection of minors,

(3) permit or license the commercial cultivation and sale of Cannabis,

(4) create and levy appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302,

(5) enact laws or create agencies consistent with the purposes of this Act.

(e) The State shall enact labeling requirements in order to inform the public for all cannabis sold or offered for sale to the public that includes:

(1) City, county, or other appellation, and;

(2) Species, strain(s) and/or variety(ies) of packaged cannabis, and;

(3) General THC content, and;

(4) Organic certification, or, if not certified as organically grown, a listing of pesticides, herbicides, and/or additives used;

(5) Certification that the Cannabis is not genetically modified.

Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees

(a) The Legislature shall create a system for the fair and orderly taxation of commercial production, sales and other cannabis business related activities within one year of the passage of this Act. The rate of taxation shall be initially set at no less than Fifty United States Dollars per ounce of Cannabis.

(b) State and local governments shall create a system for the fair and orderly issuance of licenses or permits, and the collection of licensing or permitting fees.

(c) In order to foster environmentally responsible practices for cannabis production, cultivation, processing, and other related activities, the Legislature shall enact preferential regulatory and tax treatment for entities engaged in organic and/or sustainable practices.

(d) Taxes imposed pursuant to this Act must be spent on public education, healthcare, environmental programs, public works, and state parks.

(e) Only Cannabis that is commercially cultivated, distributed, and/or sold shall be taxed.

Section 11303: Industrial Hemp

(a) This Act hereby provides for the decriminalization of industrial hemp. The state and local governments shall enact laws and regulations promoting the cultivation, production, processing, sales, distribution, regulation, and taxation of industrial hemp and all derivatives thereof.

Section 11304: Penalties for Violation of this Act

(a) Penalties for the furnishing of cannabis to a minor shall be consistent with

penalties for similar alcohol related offenses in a manner to be determined by the

Legislature.

(b) Penalties to the minor for cannabis related offenses shall be non-custodial as

determined by the Legislature.

(c) Nothing in the Act shall permit the smoking of Cannabis:

(1) In or within 500 feet of the grounds of a school (other than university or college), or youth center, unless the personal use occurs within a residence.

(2) On a school bus.

(3) By the operator of a motorized vehicle, vessel, or aircraft during operation.

(d) The unauthorized sale of cannabis shall be subject to civil and regulatory penalties to be determined by the Legislature.

(e) Establishments, facilities, individuals and other entities that

maliciously and repeatedly violate this Act are subject to civil,

regulatory, and licensing penalties to be determined by the Legislature.

(f) All civil penalties for violations of these new cannabis regulations shall be spent on public education, healthcare, environmental programs, public works, and state parks.

Section 11305: Severability

If any section, subdivision, sentence, clause, phrase, or portion of this Article is for any reason held invalid or unconstitutional by any court of competent jurisdiction, that portion shall be deemed a separate, distinct, and independent provision, and that holding shall not affect the validity of the remaining portion thereof.

 

[Skip]

7. Punish those who violate this Act and prevent any state or local agency from prohibiting or obstructing the terms or spirit of this Act

I'd like to see Federal agencies included in this ban. Also a requirement that local and state agencies NOT COOPERATE with the FEDS in any marijuana related investigation, and actively seek to defend such operations (by tip-off or on-site intervention) from Federal interference.

The Tax, Regulate, and Control Cannabis Act of 2010.

GOOD! This is the initiative above.

The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.

BAD! This is the Oaksterdam initiative by the Gang of Four.

Good luck figuring which is which come election time! If there are three initiatives, it's gonna be confusing & ppl will probably vote for all three, and then what will happen if they all pass? Which law will prevail?

 

[johnnyla]

i'm just worried the good one will not pass because of the amnesty clause .

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Complete legalization for adults without restrictions

no taxes, fuck that...

we already pay taxes on all the stuff one needs to grow the herb, let the herb be free... who pays taxes for growing roses in their yard? or an eucalyptus tree?

no one, that is who... why should cannabis cultivation, which is a plant also, requires taxes of what one grows?

that is crazy, as crazy as prohibition.

 

[GertBFrow]

I said that sick people should be allowed exclussive access. I never said sick people shouldnt get their medicine. Quite the contrary. Its hard enough trying to get dying people to even consider mj, what do you think will happen if full legalization were to occur? It would be a nightmare. The world would be a walking stereotype.

I also wasnt being 100% serious about the club thing, but hey I hate most ppl.

With the sole exception of medical marijuana, I like things the way they are. Theres no fucking way in hell that there would be a total legalization. Thats a pipe dream. But taxation is likley, total legalization for medical patients is likley.

What I meant was that with faced with the most likely scenerio 1. medical mj total legalization, 2. taxation, I'm for med mj, and med mj only. I dont want our favortie plant paying for bullets, paying for jail dinners, paying for bio wmd research. I want that cash lining OUR pockets, or directly helping OUR causes.

 

[Skip]

Complete legalization for adults without restrictions

no taxes, fuck that...

we already pay taxes on all the stuff one needs to grow the herb, let the herb be free... who pays taxes for growing roses in their yard? or an eucalyptus tree?

no one, that is who... why should cannabis cultivation, which is a plant also, requires taxes of what one grows?

that is crazy, as crazy as prohibition.

I'm against taxes too, but with the bill above, it would only be for pot that is commercially produced & distributed. That implies business license etc.

For personal grows there would obviously be no tax. And if you sell some to a friend it wouldn't be taxed (although theoretically you are responsible for personal income tax on it). Only if you do it commercially would it be taxed, which means a storefront, employees, insurance, etc. like any other business.

What's great about that, is that ANYONE would be able to open a cannabis business, pretty much without restriction!

 

[Nortin]

Jack Herer isn't dead last I checked, so your take on the news leaves a lot to be desired.

Good job promoting awarness in this important area! you tha man skip! Peace

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

I'm against taxes too, but with the bill above, it would only be for pot that is commercially produced & distributed. That implies business license etc.

The bigger thing that it implies is EXCISE tax.

Only if you do it commercially would it be taxed, which means a storefront, employees, insurance, etc. like any other business.

Except for unlike any other business they want to attach Excise takes. People don't pay excise taxes on Tomatoes, Apples, Beef, plastic, glass, metal,... So no it's not taxation like any other business.

What's great about that, is that ANYONE would be able to open a cannabis business, pretty much without restriction!

Wrong again. If it's legal why do people need permits and licenses? Simple to deprive people of said licenes, and permits and then bust their ass and punish acordingly. The state/local governments will be more than happy to deny as many permits for as many reasons as possible. So lets say you are in my shoes and you caught a felony for some bullshit 10 years ago. I did my time, paid off my debt to society, but you can bet with special permitting/licensing required they won't be just letting anyone set up business. For example they will most likely deny me any permit. Infact thats a probably with both the initiatives they give the government too much power in setting up restrictions/regulations to prohibit people not include them.

 

[GertBFrow]

What does everyone think of how our tax money would be used? I cringe everytime I see my mandatory donation on my checks because I know how that money gets used and wasted.

Something just tells me that the govt, big business, and organzied crime will all be laughing at us in a few years.

We shouldnt have to pay to be free and legal.

If we have to pay, then we should get to call the shots, but that will never happen, so dont let them get their greedy hands on our green!
We pay for enough squad cars with forfieture anyways, I dont want to literally be paying pig's saleries.....

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

I'm against taxes too, but with the bill above, it would only be for pot that is commercially produced & distributed. That implies business license etc.

For personal grows there would obviously be no tax. And if you sell some to a friend it wouldn't be taxed (although theoretically you are responsible for personal income tax on it). Only if you do it commercially would it be taxed, which means a storefront, employees, insurance, etc. like any other business.

What's great about that, is that ANYONE would be able to open a cannabis business, pretty much without restriction!

Thank you for clarifying that Skip

Ok, I understand now...

Good thing no tax for personal grows, it would have been crazy if it had meant that...

If a normal business that sells something like coffee and tea have to pay their due taxes according to the law of their countries, why shouldn't a cannabis business do it also? unless with legalization there also came a new socio-political and economical structure or something.

much peace

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

The bigger thing that it implies is EXCISE tax.


Except for unlike any other business they want to attach Excise takes. People don't pay excise taxes on Tomatoes, Apples, Beef, plastic, glass, metal,... So no it's not taxation like any other business.



Wrong again. If it's legal why do people need permits and licenses? Simple to deprive people of said licenes, and permits and then bust their ass and punish acordingly. The state/local governments will be more than happy to deny as many permits for as many reasons as possible. So lets say you are in my shoes and you caught a felony for some bullshit 10 years ago. I did my time, paid off my debt to society, but you can bet with special permitting/licensing required they won't be just letting anyone set up business. For example they will most likely deny me any permit. Infact thats a probably with both the initiatives they give the government too much power in setting up restrictions/regulations to prohibit people not include them.

hello man, what are the differences between the regular taxes a regular produce business has to pay and those term as excise taxes?

your point about licenses is well taken too.

do you need permits if you decide to grow tomatoes all of a sudden in the U.S?

Paz.

 

[Amstel Light]

you need a fishinhg lic. in most places just to fish? if you grow tomatoes for your self then no.. if you grow tomatoes to sell for profit then yes, pretty simple. do you really want every tom dick and harry with 0 experiance setting up shop commercially?

 

[chef]

I voted for "Allow Anyone to grow, but not sell" in the poll, assuming that would be the "tax-free for personal use" choice?
Treat it just like beer/wine, which is tax & license free up to a reasonable amount.
I have no problem requiring a commercial license for ops beyond the scope of personal use. A fair, ez to apply for license, then you simply pay taxes like every other biz does.
No turning down applicants for old mj related felony convictions either, IMO it MUST have an amnesty clause.
Thats something I've been really looking out for, its a sure fire way for the corp interests to eliminate a big pct% of their real competition come legalization time

Here comes the Micro-growery boom!
The Micro-brewery boom & industry is the perfect model post-legalization IMO.

just my