The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

[Arnold.]

10 gallon
Veg High N
This is used the last 2 weeks of veg and the first 2 weeks of flower.

PK booster late flower / late veg
This is used in the last 2 weeks of veg and during flower weeks 6,7,8 and 9.

So to summarize my scheduling...

Seedlings - 1/2 strength flower/veg solution
Veg week 1-3, #1 nursery pots - 1 cup full strength flower/veg solution
Veg week 4-8 #5 nursery pot - 5 cup full strength flower/ veg solution
Veg week 7-10 #5 nursery pot - 5 cup PK booster added
Veg week 9-10 #5 nursery pot - 5 cup Veg High N

Flower week 1-2 #5 nursery pot - 5 cup Veg High N
Flower week 3-7 #5 nursery pot - 5 cup flower/veg sol.
Flower week 6-9 #5 nursery pot - 5 cups PK boost

He GrowingCrazy,

Can I ask a few questions about your schedule here?

I think there is an inconsistency in your above lines with the PK booster. Veg week 7-10 is the last 3 weeks, right?

Did I interpret it fine like this?

And as you can see, I mostly run another schedule rather 2/3 weeks veg + 8/9 flower.
You think I adapted the schedule fine like that?
( I know it is just a schedule and I have to 'listen' to what the girls tell me, but I am still learning that craft)

I almost got time to garden again

Regards!

 

[led05]

So with Ca...growing the strains I grow and following vpd...I find that I can easily get enough Ca through fertigation in veg

If I leave the level alone I see a big drop in top leaf and forming bud tissue during stretch. A big drop.

Then around week 4 it starts climbing back into a good range. The last 3 weeks it climbs too high

which strain(s) is the key, it's about knowing your situations, clearly you're on top of it for your grows !

 

[moose eater]

Thanks Arnold.

Having grown for years by measuring/counting amendments and their (reported) levels of contents, I'd never gotten much past that, some intuition, and a bit of guess work. Hadn't even used the LaMotte's NPK test kit I have here, due to mostly using it in the veggies, and seeing it as a pain in the butt.

There's some bone meal already in there, but also ^ P, with less ^ N Bat guano. Both have greatly reduced K in them, if the label's correct. Though the Bone Meal has a value of 0 on K, and the Guanos, tend to have a fractional point, on up to a 1 for the K .

If the K is too much, I can dial back a number of additions.

Plenty of Bone Meal here; just got 50 lbs. bulk for the gardens.

Not awake yet, so I'll digest this a bit. I'll need to copy your references to micros, and then look at the print-out, so I can see what you're saying.

Need to take care of some other things for the immediate moment.

Is it OK if I PM you?

 

[growingcrazy]

He GrowingCrazy,

Can I ask a few questions about your schedule here?

I think there is an inconsistency in your above lines with the PK booster. Veg week 7-10 is the last 3 weeks, right?

Did I interpret it fine like this?

View Image


And as you can see, I mostly run another schedule rather 2/3 weeks veg + 8/9 flower.
You think I adapted the schedule fine like that?
( I know it is just a schedule and I have to 'listen' to what the girls tell me, but I am still learning that craft)

I almost got time to garden again

Regards!

I add the extra PK to the High N mix at the end of veg which is essentially a 2-2-2... just a double strength base mix, if you will.


What I will add that this recipe is used to pickup where the nutrition in my pots is lacking at those times... By end of veg a #5 is packed with roots and losing nutrition and fertigation takes over... It is also helpful that besides foliars and training nothing else needs done in flower... really cuts labor.


It looks like you did a good job on the scheduling. Watch the plants and adjust accordingly...write all down and repeat until dialed in for that strain(s).

 

[growingcrazy]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=77195View Image

Posted above is the analysis I received today. It came in as 1.4 MB, was turned into a 'paint' image jpeg, then resized to suit.

Hopefully it can be made readable for folks./

The 'Wiggle' category is 'Wiggle Worm' EWCs, the 'Soilless' is my current mix. The 'Wonder' is 'Wonder Worm' EWC. And 'Roots Or' is 'Roots Organic' EWC.

Any helpful insight to this would be very welcome.

Please.

And thanks.

Some quick thoughts on your soil...Not bad at all...nothing is horribly out of balance... CEC is nice...



Use some gypsum to bring the Ca up and knock the Na and K down, wash it through and adjust...



Ca @ ~4000 ppm
P @ 1000 ppm

B + 2 ppm

Mn + 60 ppm
Cu + 10 ppm

Zn + 50 ppm


I'd start with that... any objections?



I can do the actual math later if you would like.

 

[growingcrazy]

So with Ca...growing the strains I grow and following vpd...I find that I can easily get enough Ca through fertigation in veg

If I leave the level alone I see a big drop in top leaf and forming bud tissue during stretch. A big drop.

Then around week 4 it starts climbing back into a good range. The last 3 weeks it climbs too high

So many things to talk about with RBTI...not enough time. For some reason I have a blip from a Kempf webinar that popped in my head recently when reading your first post about reams...


Kempf mentioned something about a seed having 100% genetic potential and each hiccup during growth knocks that down a point...miss a watering....99% potential...miss a repot 98% potential...etc...


For some reason that keeps coming together with Ream's in my head... The proper ionic path is just less resistance to the flow of "energy" whether metabolic or electrical. Essentially unlocking the true potential of that plant to operate at 100% efficiency...if such a thing exists. It sounds good in my head...


In regards to Ca during stretch... So we can spray Biomin Ca, WSC if your a KNF'r, mix up some fish hyrolysate w/ citric acid and Ca Carb if your a DIY'r... Those will get Ca into the plant...


The real question is why doesn't the plant have the ability to get Ca into growing tips during heavy periods of growth? Is the plant really just 100% unable to do it naturally? I get the same results as you...foliar is the only way to get Ca to new growth during stretch.


What are the results of backing off feeds to match that of the plants natural ability to uptake Ca? Is pushing too hard always a benefit? I am trying to find those answers...

 

[jidoka]

which strain(s) is the key, it's about knowing your situations, clearly you're on top of it for your grows !

100% agree

Plus for most...don’t fear the humidity

 

[moose eater]

Some quick thoughts on your soil...Not bad at all...nothing is horribly out of balance... CEC is nice...



Use some gypsum to bring the Ca up and knock the Na and K down, wash it through and adjust...



Ca @ ~4000 ppm
P @ 1000 ppm

B + 2 ppm

Mn + 60 ppm
Cu + 10 ppm

Zn + 50 ppm


I'd start with that... any objections?



I can do the actual math later if you would like.

THANK YOU!! Both you, GC, and Arnold!

I noted several distinct differences in the 3 varieties of EWC. I still don't trust such amendments to remain static in content. But maybe....?

Objections? Only to my not having fine-tuned this mix earlier, in trying to get back to the uber-oily product of the early guano teas and kelp extract years.

I have both sodium borate and Borax here.

Ran out of the granular 'fast-acting' gypsum, but for a little bit, and ended up with 50 lbs. of 'gypril' or prilled gypsum. Similar in appearance, but I suspect the 'gypril' may be slower to release. Is that acceptable, or should I get some more of the 'fast acting' and save the gypril for the veggie gardens?

Re. doing math (and with specific regard to what I currently use re. specific amendments, or available alternative amendments) YES PLEASE!!

I currently have some clones that were stressed in the dome, in what was a BX Pro-Mix, perlite, vermiculite slight dolomite, and (unfortunately) slight EWC and Bokashi Bran mix with enzymes and Mycostop test/trial, now sitting in 3" containers in the adjusted mix posted earlier and now tested, and after a week out of what was a less-than-pleasant experimental mix for them in cloning, suffering numbers dropping from a near-100% success rate w/o the EWC and bokashi, to an embarrassing and sad 70% mortality rate, the survivors are waking up a bit and looking happier now.. Like the swimmers rescued from the Titanic after treading water for hours on end. .

Also, any insights into what is in this current mix that, unlike other mixes of mine, would cause an alcohol-based ph reagent to -not- get an immediate handle on an accurate reading, instead taking 2-3 days to 'find itself.' Very unusual for this kit. (*I -was- pleased to see the lab pegged the ph at 6.8, whereas my interpretation of my test kit's reading was 6.8 to 6.9 and holding after a several day adjustment, but the 2-3 day delay in an accurate reading.... ? Will send me back to the days of NOT putting things into immediate use, as I had grown accustomed to doing.

The newer additions in any sort of bulk are the rice hulls (somewhat alkaline, per my reading, but supposedly not something they share with the soil's ph, which I found to be a mysterious assertion, in and of itself), zeolite (but only 7.5 cups in the mix total), pumice (replacing a good part of the former 'exclusively-perlite' mixes, and leaning back to a bit of vermiculite, as well as the rice hulls).

I look forward to any and all helpful direction with this!!

I'm soon headed off for a med appointment in another place, several days from now, followed by a longer absence for similar issues in the not-too-distant future, but for most of the next 2 weeks, I'll be on-line. After that, perhaps a 1-2 week absence from the keyboard.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH, BOTH OF YOU!!

 

[jidoka]

Growing...this is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth to you. Kempf can’t carry Reams jock strap. Fuck that lying piece of shit cocksucker

On N vs Ca. Yes Ca can keep up with N provided you have not overdone N. People I work for ain’t fans of natural growth though. They want the juice

 

[growingcrazy]

Growing...this is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth to you. Kempf can’t carry Reams jock strap. Fuck that lying piece of shit cocksucker

On N vs Ca. Yes Ca can keep up with N provided you have not overdone N. People I work for ain’t fans of natural growth though. They want the juice

I can understand that... What I am getting at is what are we missing? We can get the plant to move everything else in large quantities but not the Ca?

 

[jidoka]

Read OO’s most excellent post. Ca never moves phloem, only xylem. That is why it has always been the limiting factor.

Then came Albion, biomin and amino chelates N

Now, to me P w/o K is the next step

 

[led05]

Read OO’s most excellent post. Ca never moves phloem, only xylem. That is why it has always been the limiting factor.

Then came Albion, biomin and amino chelates N

Now, to me P w/o K is the next step

Ca is a key to bigger puzzles though, it's like the ultimate bottleneck and contrary to some popular belief it can be overdone, mainly due to it's delivery and what comes along with it but also to me is critical to Bio and not just due to "increased air" .... who has pure quality foliar CalCarb - it ISN"T cheap....



I think / know P is always the trick -



simple cheapo powders just throw every form of N at it and let ma nature work out when..... Jacks/peters never lets me down for shit I don't really care about - if going chem and spraying ornamentals

 

[jidoka]

Yea...I do not uss any cal carb foliar. I will talk principals but every place I go needs some tweak. Exact formulas are kinda useless

 

[calisun]

Hey so I was making a list of nutrients to order that I can't buy locally and I got to jhtech biomin calcium and started looking at there cal-boro. They got a few different concoctions of the calboro. I am wondering if I'm better off getting that as my soil is still a little low in boron. I have been adding borax a little at a time to my soil drenches last season to raise the level. Does anyone have experience using it and have a preferred product.
Maybe I should just keep adding the boron separately and go back to using calcium chloride as a foliar. I think I seen my best results with the Calcium chloride, hard to say but last year I used biocor calcium along with holo mic and mac and wasn't too impressed. Could be my fault.

 

[reppin2c]

To elaborate on what growingcra cra was saying IMO were dealing with Gene's that where selected synthetically and after generations of selection that has been fed that way. Plants that are fed K explode and then pest/fungicide to combat whatever popped up.

And for the 100th time the hollow stem potentcy theory. Lack the ability to uptake B and Ca genetically.

Spoke to the microbiologist that does the TeaCo brand biologicals. Language barrier and me having the stereo to loud beforehand limited our convo. Kinda cool that I get someone dumbing down the terms for me and you could tell hes had to do it prior.

 

[reppin2c]

I'm seeing a synthetically selected gene vs a organic selected gene difference here in the garden. Both bred here, with in 20 miles.

The syn one is on the right. Why did It turn sideways? No wonder jidoka cant post a pic that i dont have to turn my head on

 

[growingcrazy]

To elaborate on what growingcra cra was saying IMO were dealing with Gene's that where selected synthetically and after generations of selection that has been fed that way. Plants that are fed K explode and then pest/fungicide to combat whatever popped up.

And for the 100th time the hollow stem potentcy theory. Lack the ability to uptake B and Ca genetically.

Spoke to the microbiologist that does the TeaCo brand biologicals. Language barrier and me having the stereo to loud beforehand limited our convo. Kinda cool that I get someone dumbing down the terms for me and you could tell hes had to do it prior.

Think about all the genetics that got tossed because they didn't grow well on GH 3 part...

 

[VortexPower420]

Arden Anderson and others are all about using organic seed for organic feed. He believes that the genetic makeup of a plant will coincide with the type of feed it was given. Then it's offspring willthrive in the same kind of feed that is parents would.

It makes sense. Using chemicals and forcing single nutrients will lead to a limited gene code as some nutrients are note even available in chem grows.
Then you also bring into the equation the forcing of major nutes that plant lines seem to get used to.

 

[Arnold.]

In this discussion, which chemical/synthetic fertilizers are considered to bring those consequences?

I came from an organic background where every non-organic-listed fertilizer was considered 'bad'.

Now I see that this is not the case for some of the fertilizers that are not OMRI listed.

Which ones are the bad synthetic/chemical fertilizers?
I can see problems with Cl and Na of course. Also the highly availability of nitrate fertilizers is taking a 'shortcut'.
Plus, some of the synthetic chelators are a big part of the cause.
Any others?

 

[Avenger]

why would one use calcium carbonate as a foliar application?

Almost every characteristic about it makes it a poor choice, no?