The History of Herms

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have not tried any of them. I work with Phylos. There are several others that will be released this year.
What good does seeing an XX or XY do, how do you ID intersex by eye?
I do not really care about sexing males or females, I can do that now in about 10-14 days if I need to.
As for the ability to determine if seedlings contain cannabis survival mechanisms.
Which Cannabis survival mechanisms? I am not sure what you mean.

http://phylosbioscience.com/plant-sex-test/

http://steephill.com/genkit

http://montanabiotech.com/2013/03/2...enetic-profiling-provided-by-montana-biotech/

If anyone uses the Montanabiotech to sex intersex please let me know your results, try also testing a plant you know is intersex just to test the test. I will get one but I do not have an intersex plant to test, so maybe someone in the EU can send me a intersex plant leaf to test? Just PM me.
-SamS

 

[Mate Dave]

The hermi trait is a survival technique... All cannabis plants do things like this Sam unless bread not to do so with significant ease.. Without it some genotypes would become extinct and superior genotypes lost.. Perhaps it is needed for some reason like all female lines.. I dunno.

Counting chromosomes gives an idea on how the plant was created and it might be possible to conclusively test for hermis this way but I cannot figure out how to accurately.. it's sort of hit and miss with the sex tests. pure types are very easy to spot, bastardised cannabis not so. I need to find a slide to show the difference. I was burgled and lost my computer so finding some slides will be very tricky and time consuming on my hard drives. I'll try explain.. You can see the genetic makeup of the plant on a cellular level.

can see how many parents or sets of genetic material are there present. Can also see how they pair and how they prefer to do things..

You can see the 5 different phases; interpahase telephase prophase metaphase anaphase.

All is needed is to determine an actual sex of male and female or 10 of each and compare what you see with the known plants and the seedlings.. Some form of correlation will be present and you can use this to determine the male female ratios in any cross before growing 10'000 to find a breeder also you have the ability to discard the plants with mutant cell divisions should they differ from the control plants..

Males and females are different..


I can send some hermi seed sam and you can perform a test.. I don't keep hermi's alive

 

[Mate Dave]

Essentially a root crush test and the top link you posted use the same method Sam.. Leaf might be slightly more mature and contain easier cells to stain/spot they might even have a chemical to apply to highlight the different DNA.. Or they have adopted the technique like I have learned to. I was shown this by an old tutor who was what I imagine you to be like.. The fact with him is he wasn't you and he was not sure of the newer methods to show me...

He used this technique to prove that Colchicine indeed changes and mutated plant DNA significantly that it can be recorded.. So it 100% works or he wouldn't have a masters and be teaching..


Edit. I could have been shown how to do lots of these test things but with cannabis illegal here I had to take in roots because we gave the samples to the lab technician and if it was cannabis leaf we would have been found out that we were using the lab for cannabis research.. That's big No No.. But he was a cool Guy.. I miss my tutors.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The hermi trait is a survival technique... All cannabis plants do things like this Sam unless bread not to do so with significant ease.. Without it some genotypes would become extinct and superior genotypes lost.. Perhaps it is needed for some reason like all female lines.. I dunno.

I do not believe this, I think being Dioecious is the advantage and survival technique of Cannabis and intersex is the hand of man.
If you take a monoecious variety and breed it for a few years without selection to maintain the Monoecious traits they revert back to Dioecious in a few generations. Cannabis is intersexed because of people using intersex parents to make the next years crop, be it in Morocco, Thailand, or the USA or France. Indoors or outdoors.
Much Cannabis traditionally got intersexed from large cultivation of Seedless Cannabis Sinsemilla so all males were killed, and in the more aware Sinsemilla producing areas they killed not only males but any female with any male flowers. This has been going on for hundreds of years. Sinsemilla production fosters an increase in intersex plants because the few seeds found in the crop are often from intersex male flowers in the Sinsemilla all female crop. People use the seeds and wham, they are intersex. Do it for decades and hundreds of years and the intersex load increases in the population. Like in Thailand. All from the hand of man.
The same anywhere they do not eliminate intersex plants from the crop like many or most small farmers around the world.

Counting chromosomes gives an idea on how the plant was created and it might be possible to conclusively test for hermis this way but I cannot figure out how to accurately.. it's sort of hit and miss with the sex tests. pure types are very easy to spot, bastardised cannabis not so. I need to find a slide to show the difference. I was burgled and lost my computer so finding some slides will be very tricky and time consuming on my hard drives. I'll try explain..

I have my doubts about this, how the plant was created? I do not understand.

You can see the genetic makeup of the plant on a cellular level.

can see how many parents or sets of genetic material are there present. Can also see how they pair and how they prefer to do things..

I will have to take your word as we use DNA tests to do some of what you are talking about but it is nothing that can be seen with the eye, it is SNP's that we use. They are Single nucleotide polymorphism and you can look them up. They are markers with a known location on a chromosome.

You can see the 5 different phases; interpahase telephase prophase metaphase anaphase.

All is needed is to determine an actual sex of male and female or 10 of each and compare what you see with the known plants and the seedlings.. Some form of correlation will be present and you can use this to determine the male female ratios in any cross before growing 10'000 to find a breeder also you have the ability to discard the plants with mutant cell divisions should they differ from the control plants..

Males and females are different..


I can send some hermi seed sam and you can perform a test.. I don't keep hermi's alive

Are you sure it is intersex is every seed intersexed?
-SamS

 

[Mate Dave]

Yes up to I'd say 70%+ on the line but seeds from individual plants may be higher.. I haven't tested it in any large numbers and those particular seeds are not going to be made again.. However they were made with 1 male who was pure and is still pure and 4 semi-females.. That was all that was there to use and seeds can be eaten if they are huge and nutritious, genes only matter in this case to get the seed size for optimum oilseed production and hemp meal.. My thinking.. I can Re-make some Large seed anytime I want to try to test the % of the omegas V's another type and their fats...I wanna go that route.. Legally..

If I remember one female and the male produced nice plants with no so much fuckery.. The others were a nightmare.. Hemp like growth and Haze type fuzz balls full of mannas and some with male and female branches showing all sorts of morphology over the line, not the 'normal' lines or better typical flowers with other P1's, they were fairly potent the hermis were as I made hermi f'2 n 3's.

Semi-females are plants that showed as males and came through a 95% + female and you pick off the male flowers.. Some of these plants I have found and done this to are in clones and never herm out and are females with great bud...

That is where I kinda basis my theory on light and optimum for what you want to achieve. People call this a 'gene finder' method... I think it is basic cultivation...

With chromosome pairs you should be able to determine weather or not the plant was of pure or polly genetic makeup with cannabis it is 2n and has 20 chromosomes. These can be significantly more..

Your tests on tracing the tree of cannabis should show us some relative pure lines and how they mixed and how these extra codes are added in outcrossing would it not?

When going to reproduce the diploid splits and you get the Gametophyte the haploid state.. How do we get Polys and all the other states like tetraploid and hexoctoploploids and the likes? I have there code of PK Purple kush I managed to find and it has like 52 sets of extra shit linked to the 10 pairs....

 

[Betterhaff]

Much Cannabis traditionally got intersexed from large cultivation of Seedless Cannabis Sinsemilla so all males were killed, and in the more aware Sinsemilla producing areas they killed not only males but any female with any male flowers. This has been going on for hundreds of years.

You mentioned this before and it puzzled me. If large crops of sensimilla are being grown and all males and intersexed are culled, how do they produce seeds for future crops? Are they saving some males and females for pollination? In a sense wouldn’t that be some form of selection?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You mentioned this before and it puzzled me. If large crops of sensimilla are being grown and all males and intersexed are culled, how do they produce seeds for future crops? Are they saving some males and females for pollination? In a sense wouldn’t that be some form of selection?

They used ganja doctors, poddars, to remove all males and all intersexed plants and grew a large seed crop for all the farmers far away from sinsemilla production far enough to be able to use the best of the best females and males for seed production.
-SamS

 

[Betterhaff]

Thanks Sam.

So I have a question. What might the difference be between a female that throws a few male flowers and a male that throws a few pistils? I ask because I had a couple of males that seemed pure and I collected pollen from them and then decided to reveg one. I trimmed him back and he started to show calyxes and pistils.

Out of curiosity I put him (it) back in flower and pollinated with pollen I collected from both of the so called males. I had collected pollen from both, mixed it, and was going to save it. Probably won’t now.

I know a hermie is a hermie, I just want to see if it produces seed…not that I’ll do anything with them.

 

[symbiote420]

Let's be honest we have never seen a cannabis plant with complete male and female flowers on it so technically we can not call plants that show a few male parts on a female flower or vise versa a hermie plant, actually what we are witnessing are polygamodioecious traits. Some plants express the trait more than others but if proper selections are used while breeding the breeder should be able to work them out.... atleast that's the case most of the time.
I will add this with everybody recombining from the same genepool over and over, ex. ? OG/? Chem, or OG cross/Chem cross, etc. this type of thing was bound to happen. There are still tons of cross to be made without doing this but the market dictates right now.

 

[DarthFader1]

Thanks for the extremely informative thread guys, this has taught me a lot!

I arrived here because i currently have a bunch of Venom OG and Rugburn OG in flower that are fully monoecious. These are seed plants currently at day 21 of 12/12. Now i have discovered the lineage of the RD#1 male used in these crosses has Chem genetics in it, which seems to explain the intersex traits.. They started producing clear male balls at around day 10 of flower and are still doing it now. The interesting thing is that the male balls have absolutely no pollen in them that i have seen so far when removing them.

I have been picking all the male balls off but do you guys think i can avoid a seeded crop given the male pollen sacs are empty? Or is day 21 of flower not enough time for the male flowers to produce pollen yet?

Some input here would be really appreciated, the thing is this seed run was done to select mothers and now everything has shown intersex traits, ive lost confidence that any of these plants will be suitable for keeper mothers (definitely not intended for breeding use just sensi production)

I can upload some pics if somebody really wanted to see but the intersex traits are as clear as day.. A small amount of male balls growing separately on a female plant.

thankyou in advance for any replies i guess im trying to find some peace of mind that a) i will not end up with a majoprity seeded crop and b) that i can select the best of these for a keeper and that they will be stable for sensi production

darth

 

[DarthFader1]

I should add this is fully genetic intersex NOT as a result of stress. These plants are very healthy

 

[MJPassion]

Sounds like they're not keepers to me. Especially if you think the trait is hard wired in.

Place the balls you are picking off in a jar & let them dry. As they dry you will see wether they really have pollen or not.

Sam Skunkman has said in the past that there are no sterile plants in cannabis. At least not that he's seen in the past 40+ years since he's been working with cannabis.

 

[DarthFader1]

Sounds like they're not keepers to me. Especially if you think the trait is hard wired in.

Place the balls you are picking off in a jar & let them dry. As they dry you will see wether they really have pollen or not.

Sam Skunkman has said in the past that there are no sterile plants in cannabis. At least not that he's seen in the past 40+ years since he's been working with cannabis.

Hey MJ thanks for the reply mate.

Hmm letting the balls dry.. Ok i will try that for sure. I just been in there watering and inspecting each plant and removed a few more balls. Some of them had already opened and there were bananas. Again, no sign of pollen at all. In the past when the balls open usually i can see some signs of pollen on the stems or somewhere but absolutely none this time.

Re the sterile plants i don't mean to doubt you but im fairly sure ive read something in one of these hermi threads saying there CAN be non viable pollen or no pollen at all present in balls in monoecious plants?? I will try and dig that quote up it was made by someone competent too if my memory serves me right.

Again thanks for the reply
darth

 

[Tipzcannabis]

How do you like me now?

 

[CreeperStipule]

They used ganja doctors, poddars, to remove all males and all intersexed plants and grew a large seed crop for all the farmers far away from sinsemilla production far enough to be able to use the best of the best females and males for seed production.
-SamS

how did they prove the males were males? or did they simply go off thinking that if it didn't show as intersex it must not be intersex?

 

[CreeperStipule]

@Sam_Skunkman have you ever tested the hypocotyl length to see if it correlates to intersex traits?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

@Sam_Skunkman have you ever tested the hypocotyl length to see if it correlates to intersex traits?

No I have not.
-SamS