T
tip staff
i'm gotta ask you BONECARVER, what do you mean by "treat it like soil"
(i know i reviving an old thread, sorry)
(i know i reviving an old thread, sorry)
superbolan
Active member
Not to usurp Bonecarver but i believe he is stating to treat it like a hydro medium
i am growing in 100% coco. using GH flora nova-grow. after two weeks they seemed to show signs of cal-mag def. i hear this is common in coco, but these nutes have cal-mag in them. also i wasnt lowering the ph of the water i was using the first two weeks, it was tap. could those have been getting blocked from high ph? its the middle height leaves, yellowing (with green veins still) with some of them having burned tips. upper new leaves and lower leaves are fine. also i had an ocsillating fan on the 24 hrs a day, so i thought maybe they got wind burned. i turned that off. the internodes are real close together and the stems, branches are real thick. any ideas?
psychodelicbob
New member
I'm keeping my "mothers" in coco and find the roots just love to throw themselves out the bottom of the pots in such a hurry!
I have my pots sitting in larger buckets, and I bottom feed...
(Roots now exposed to fluro lighting)
Is my best option to either trim the roots back, keep them wet (with minimal dry periods), or cover the buckets they're in and go back to watering less?
Cheers in advance
PB
I have my pots sitting in larger buckets, and I bottom feed...
(Roots now exposed to fluro lighting)
Is my best option to either trim the roots back, keep them wet (with minimal dry periods), or cover the buckets they're in and go back to watering less?
Cheers in advance
PB
You roughly have 9 sq. Ft. With a bit of wiggle room. That's 4 rows of 4 pots with 9" x 9" per pot to work with.... I would use 1 gl. Smart potsas they would fir and give you some room between pots for some air flow... 2 gl. Would fit shoved up against each other. That's overkill, lots of roots fit in a little coco ...
I recently weighed a single plant harvest, coco/perlite in a 2 gl smart pot at well over a 1/4 bow...
That being said.... I bet you could sog in beer cups, fit a he'll of a lot more in that 9 sq. Ft. And pull the same weight per plant as larger pots.... If by sog you mean a bud on a stick any ways....
greentrich
Member
Hello fellow hand water-ers.
I have a question that I posted in the general growing section but didn't get much help there. Seeing as how I handwater, in coco...I am re-posting here:
My method is hand watering to waste. I mix up about 3 gallons of solution with nutes and balance to about 5.9-6.0 (in coco). Have to use PH Up to bring it up there after the nutes are added. Last night, after using about 1 gallon I re-checked the PH of my solution just out of curiosity. After about 20 min it had risen up to about 6.2. So I added some Down to take it back down to 6.0. 1 gallon and about another 20 min, it's back up to 6.3. This is all in the bucket of solution, not the runoff.
So, after using the entire solution up I mixed another 3 gallons. Did not use any of it as an experiment and just let it sit there. 20 min later...it's up to 6.2 again.
Why does this happen to solution just sitting in a bucket??? Anyone else have this happen? I backed up the results with test strips and re-calibrated my meter with the same results. I even replaced the probe on my meter just to make sure. I use Botanicare nutes and honestly don't know if this has ever happened on the previous projects. Does PH UP take time to dissolve or take full effect?? The only difference from this and previous projects is that I am using a lot more water than before...does that have an effect??
I'm very confused and am wondering if this is causing some minor issues I am having. I can't understand how I can balance a nute solution to a particular point, and 20 minutes later...without using any of it...it jumps up at least .2 points. To top that off, I let the new batch sit longer, and the PH just kept rising.
What the hell is happening??? Will it ever stop rising? I decided to let the new solution sit overnight just to see how high it rises in 24 hrs.
Also, this is with RO water starting at 7.25 if that helps.
Note: The second, experimental batch was left alone after mixing with no PH up to see if it would drift by itself. After 45 min...no change. Added PH up and 20 min later it was off to the races.
Thanx for any insight.
I have a question that I posted in the general growing section but didn't get much help there. Seeing as how I handwater, in coco...I am re-posting here:
My method is hand watering to waste. I mix up about 3 gallons of solution with nutes and balance to about 5.9-6.0 (in coco). Have to use PH Up to bring it up there after the nutes are added. Last night, after using about 1 gallon I re-checked the PH of my solution just out of curiosity. After about 20 min it had risen up to about 6.2. So I added some Down to take it back down to 6.0. 1 gallon and about another 20 min, it's back up to 6.3. This is all in the bucket of solution, not the runoff.
So, after using the entire solution up I mixed another 3 gallons. Did not use any of it as an experiment and just let it sit there. 20 min later...it's up to 6.2 again.
Why does this happen to solution just sitting in a bucket??? Anyone else have this happen? I backed up the results with test strips and re-calibrated my meter with the same results. I even replaced the probe on my meter just to make sure. I use Botanicare nutes and honestly don't know if this has ever happened on the previous projects. Does PH UP take time to dissolve or take full effect?? The only difference from this and previous projects is that I am using a lot more water than before...does that have an effect??
I'm very confused and am wondering if this is causing some minor issues I am having. I can't understand how I can balance a nute solution to a particular point, and 20 minutes later...without using any of it...it jumps up at least .2 points. To top that off, I let the new batch sit longer, and the PH just kept rising.
What the hell is happening??? Will it ever stop rising? I decided to let the new solution sit overnight just to see how high it rises in 24 hrs.
Also, this is with RO water starting at 7.25 if that helps.
Note: The second, experimental batch was left alone after mixing with no PH up to see if it would drift by itself. After 45 min...no change. Added PH up and 20 min later it was off to the races.
Thanx for any insight.
Maybe your adding too much PH-UP, from readings you add very little, in increments and test then proceed from there?
TR
TR
greentrich
Member
Yep..tried that too. I add a bit, mix it up, test it until it is stable (meter stops moving up). Take the meter out, shake it off, test again just to make sure I get the same reading. When I do get the same reading, then I start to add more...etc.
Ya this is fuct. I've never experienced this or heard of it.
Thanks for the thought though TR.
Wet-Betty in cocos?
Wet-Betty in cocos?
Hello...
I ran over one wet betty bottle(damn good lookin bottle that is), cost me 3 Euros so i just bought.
The cashier said it was good for coco.
Canna coco, a heavy sack, 50liters. But the man in the store also said that i did´nt need leca in the bottom, and know i heard that i need, after i´ve planted.
Been a dirtgrower for some years so it´s a bit hard again, know with coco i meen.
Maybe i should say, the plants in question is now 2 weeks old.
Hope you get it... Nepal hash and laughing buddah, works fine.
Maybe not for writing, or . We will se.
I forgot: I got an old bottle pk 13-14 Canna, the description is in some language i don´t understand. Can i use it? Or is it for hydro? In that case, what dose?
Just gonna sit around and wait for answers
Roll a big one! Peace!
Wet-Betty in cocos?
Hello...
I ran over one wet betty bottle(damn good lookin bottle that is), cost me 3 Euros so i just bought.
The cashier said it was good for coco.
Canna coco, a heavy sack, 50liters. But the man in the store also said that i did´nt need leca in the bottom, and know i heard that i need, after i´ve planted.
Been a dirtgrower for some years so it´s a bit hard again, know with coco i meen.
Maybe i should say, the plants in question is now 2 weeks old.
Hope you get it... Nepal hash and laughing buddah, works fine.
Maybe not for writing, or . We will se.
I forgot: I got an old bottle pk 13-14 Canna, the description is in some language i don´t understand. Can i use it? Or is it for hydro? In that case, what dose?
Just gonna sit around and wait for answersRoll a big one! Peace!
thats strange, the only thing that comes to mind is that your using a small amount of water and the phosphoric acid is evaporating out of the water. but it seems to be happening a bit fast. maybe try a big container and a lid. tell me do you have an air pump in the water bucket?
greentrich
Member
Thanks for stopping by GS.
Well I could tell you that, but I'd be lying. Normally I would mix and feed right away, so I didn't think I would need to bubble it.
So if I mix a solution, and use it literally 30 sec. after it's mixed...do I still need to aerate it???
GeneralGrievous and have been going back and forth on this one trying to figure it out (he's been a big help and patient with me), although I haven't heard back from him in a couple days (probably getting tired of my stupidity LOL). He had mentioned the same thing though about the P evaporating being a possibility.
So I've tried a few things:
Test A: mix a solution and let it sit 24 hrs. without any PH. Usually comes out to around 3.2 PH. 24 hrs. later...it's still at 3.2. No aerating, no balancing, just nutes in water...PH doesn't move. Some had suggested to leave the mix alone and the nutes should balance themselves out.
Test B: Mix a solution (same PPM of course), balance it to 5.6. In 24 hrs. it rose about +5.9-ish(don't remember exactly, I have it documented somewhere). So we're talking a 3 to 4 tenths of a rise in PH in 24hrs.
Test C: Same as test B, only with a lid on tightly. 24hrs. later...PH barely moved. Might have risen 2 tenths of a point.
Test D: Same as test B, only recently changing from GH PH up to TechnoFlora PH up. Since GH's up is sodium bicarbonate (salt based), and TF is potassium bicarbonate based...thought it would be a good test. Anyway, this mix (without the lid) showed the same results as Test C after 24 hrs....PH barely moved.
At any rate, don't know exactly what this proves, if anything at all. The last two tests were done with a solution that I am not using for my plants, as I am backing nutes off for a flush, and I wanted the same PPM levels for all tests....~900. I am still running a couple tests each night independent of the water I prep for my plants just out of curiosity. It's sort of a moot point by now seeing as how I'm almost done, and will be for a while. But the next time around I would really like to have this figured out, plus someone might benefit from this...either that or I'll confuse the hell out of someone. Maybe I should just stop now.
This is really just strange to me, sorry for such a long winded post.
no you don't need to add air, was just asking cause that makes the ph rise too.
wow your ro water seem to have a very low ph, if you end up with ph 3.2 after adding nutes. most people have to use ph down after adding nutes to tap water, not ph up.
it is normal for the tank ph to raise a bit, specially the first 24 hours after mixing the tank.
if i understood you right that the ph ends at 3.2, you might want to consider adding some tap water, get that ph to 5.6 with adding tap water and then adjust with ph plus and see how it goes with the ph after that.
in the end the main thing is that when you give the nutrient solution to the plants the ph is about in the right range.
if adding a lid stopped the ph wandering too much, maybe that's the way to go.
yes not all ph up and down products are the same, finding the right one for you is the trick. anyway it seems like you are well on the way to solving this ph problem
wow your ro water seem to have a very low ph, if you end up with ph 3.2 after adding nutes. most people have to use ph down after adding nutes to tap water, not ph up.
it is normal for the tank ph to raise a bit, specially the first 24 hours after mixing the tank.
if i understood you right that the ph ends at 3.2, you might want to consider adding some tap water, get that ph to 5.6 with adding tap water and then adjust with ph plus and see how it goes with the ph after that.
in the end the main thing is that when you give the nutrient solution to the plants the ph is about in the right range.
if adding a lid stopped the ph wandering too much, maybe that's the way to go.
yes not all ph up and down products are the same, finding the right one for you is the trick. anyway it seems like you are well on the way to solving this ph problem
greentrich
Member
Ya it's a weird one, no doubt about that. I am/was thoroughly convinced I was doing something wrong as I've never seen this issue reported before. I agree that it could be some sort of evaporation, but that much that fast seems really odd as well.
My issue with tap....other than it being completely disgusting here, wouldn't that dilute my nute solution?? Or are you saying to add it to the RO before I start to add my nutes? I agree the RO PH is a bit low. It was brand new when I started this whole mess, and now the RO output has been stable at 15PPM and a PH of 6.8, so ya it starts off low from the get go. But yes, you understood me right....RO PH starts off at ~6.8 and by the time I get it to anywhere form 900 to 1100 PPM, the PH is down to around ~3.0.
FWIW...since I have been tapering the solution back to around 500PPM, I STILL get a resulting PH of 3.2. However, it does take much less PH to get it in the target range. Does that tell you anything?? I'll monitor more as the PPMs get tapered off more, but this seems odd to me....no matter if it's 1K ppm or 500, the resulting PH is in the low 3's.
I know this is a strange, complex, confusing, albeit possibly pointless observation...but I want to thank everyone for their time and input. Science rocks, I love it, and this is really my first foray into water chemistry. While I don't know much about growing yet, I do know PH is EVERYTHING to a successful grow.
greentrich
Member
That's a good philosophy and one I try to stick by. Which is why I use Botanicare coco and nutes, just wish they made PH forumulas.
so it seems the techno flora ph up is working then? no more drift?
yes my idea with the tap water is based on my own experience in a place with shity water that needed ro water, but the ro water was so low ph that i always added about a third tap water to the ro water. also did that for the trace elements you find in tap water. only after adding the tap water would i mix nutrients in. because you are talking in ppm i really have no idea how much or little you are using. most coco ferts are made with water in mind that has a high ph, all of them seem to have some ph minus or buffering stuff in there, which is why your ph is so low after adding nutrients.
greentrich
Member
Ya so far so good. Doesn't budge at all, and like I said....using MUCH less to get the PH back up. Needless to say I'm diggin' the TF PH up. Plus adding a potassium base as opposed to a salt base rests easier with me. I sleep better at night now lol.
I will definitely take your tap suggested under advisement next go 'round. Your explanation on the buffering they add makes sense...lots 'o sense. Unfortunately PPM is all I know, not too well versed in any other formulas yet. I am going to spend my off season doing some more homework and research to try to refine my knowledge base.
Thanks for the input GS....always a great help!
I've tried doing a search in this thread for using B-Cuzz nutrients with coco. I use B-Cuzz A&B along with most of the supplements. I am making the switch from soil to coco. I was just curious if B-Cuzz will still perform for me in coco like it has in soil. As well as should I just use the same formula I have in the past?
personally i like using coco specific nutrients, specially with my way of growing in coco with multiple waterings daily. but there are other opinions. if you treat your coco more like soil i would think you should get decent results. but the honest answer is i don't know, as i haven't tried it. have seen coco grow here using canna terra flores, which is cannas earth flowering formula, for flowering in coco and he made it work.
Thanx for the response...the line of B-Cuzz I am using is for hydro, am I correct in what I have ascertained from reading here is that coco is hand-fed hydro? So using the B-Cuzz nutes or any line that is hydro will work? I appreciate the feedback b-cuzz I am making the switch right now from soil to coco....thanx in advance. FYI, so far my small veg plants in 90-10% coco-perlite are coming along really nice. Just seem to be lacking in the green color they normally have.
