fwiw, I have grown outside in straight coco a number of times, including this year, it absolutely crushes soil in growth and over all bag appeal by a long shot. Plants start slightly deficient in Ca and Mg, but once the requirement is met they are the healthiest and happiest one could ask for, only down side is they need water at least twice a day once they get rootbound.
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as far as hanging onto cations that is just the cec...both peat and coco have it. Good peat is going to be significantly higher than coco and will actually "hang onto" cations moreso than coco.
But that is what you want. You do not want soluble ions in your mix beyond a certain point (somewhere in the 0.3-0.7 EC range). The stuff that is attached to the cec sites is referred to as available but not soluble. It is pried loose by the plants acidic root exudates provided you have enough SO4 in the mix or by microbal action.
I honestly see peat and coco as not that different. My experience has been that I get better taste growing in peat is all. But that may have more to do with my technique than the two mediums. Obviously other people are quite happy with coco.
But that is what you want. You do not want soluble ions in your mix beyond a certain point (somewhere in the 0.3-0.7 EC range). The stuff that is attached to the cec sites is referred to as available but not soluble. It is pried loose by the plants acidic root exudates provided you have enough SO4 in the mix or by microbal action.
I honestly see peat and coco as not that different. My experience has been that I get better taste growing in peat is all. But that may have more to do with my technique than the two mediums. Obviously other people are quite happy with coco.
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Cep
Sorry, this is getting confusing. I shouldn't be using terms like "hanging on". In my minds eye I was picturing coco absorbing cations beyond surface exchange sites that are accessible by the plant (I don't really know what it's structure is like). It just seems like, regardless of cec values, coco is more reluctant to give the cations up. Peat is really fine though. I wonder if they would have the same cec after grinding coco down to the exact surface texture and size as peat?
The growth rate in coco is excellent. It seems like is provides better root zone as far as oxygen held. I also think I'm going to experiment with it outdoors next year.
The growth rate in coco is excellent. It seems like is provides better root zone as far as oxygen held. I also think I'm going to experiment with it outdoors next year.
GoldCountryGuy
Member
Then you have something about your soil grows that are inadequate. I'd spend my time dialing in my soil instead of watering twice a day. Every person I've talked to with any measurable knowledge in cannabis growing, that has tried and dialed both, laughs at coco.
With that being said, glad to see ur safe and doing well. I'm glad its working for u. If you want to get into the science or any details its already been laid out for you. Take to pm for fun discussion though.
coco fight!!!
This is where the last conversation headed earlier in the year before the season. I was told the same thing by GCG, and others on the boards. I did a lot of research, and is one of the first questions I bring up to people when talking about soil mediums. Everybody that I find knowledgeable about soil also says peat is better than coco. Just because my custom mix with coco in it performed better than the EWSF soil with peat doesn't mean much more than just that. My custom mix gets A+ additives, cost almost 250$ a yard, and has been lab tested and approved. I should have tested the EWSF soil, and amended accordingly. That's my bad. The EWSF soil is super rich in humus even after the year is over. I just dug up some of the first plant harvested to see how things looked down below, and still loads of rich black humus. If I am in the same house growing next year, I am willing to bet after soil tests and amending is done, the EWSF will become better than my custom mix. For two reasons, the peat and the super high quality earth worm castings.
Green spirit from dutch passion, anyone ever try?
GCG thanks for the input and I respect your opinion but you are quick to make assumptions and assert yourself as the boss, Im not one of your workers.
Im glad that everyone that you have talked to has told you they didnt like coco, but I have personal first hand experience from multiple seasons of trials and errors.
Just because I said bag appeal in coco is superior doesnt mean I dont prefer to, and mostly do, grow in soil. My soil does great and is easily and consistently in the top 10% of anything around. Soil smells and tastes are second to none, however, speed of veg growth, color, and general bag appeal are bested by samples done in coco.
As far as watering goes, youre right, there are way better things to be doing than watering 2-3x daily, however in this seasons circumstance, it was all I had. When the shit hit the fan, the only starts I had extra were 48x 5 gallon pots already filled with coco and veggin indoors for the next run, so instead of paying PGE a shit ton of money and putting myself further behind, I threw them outside.
Now, I have done coco outside many times, especially in the dep, but I have never used a pot over 25 gallons. You can easily get 3lbs out of the 25 gal if its fed right, and use way less media that a soil grow. BUT, all the coco I have done outdoors were short season plants, either early or late, and I would never try to go bigger than that, for true giant full season plants soil IS the only way to go.
Also, I would be willing to bet that most of those people you talked to were straight outdoor growers, without a substantial background with coco indoors which may or may not have contributed to my success. As far a the science behind it all, well Im am a science type of guy, but I am also a feel it out grower, and for me personally, coco has kicked soils ass in some instances, but not all. Thats my story and Im stickin to it, if you dont agree thats fine but dont discredit my grows when you havent seen them. I could be hating on your grows because they arent to my liking, but Im not. Cause Im not a dick...
Im glad that everyone that you have talked to has told you they didnt like coco, but I have personal first hand experience from multiple seasons of trials and errors.
Just because I said bag appeal in coco is superior doesnt mean I dont prefer to, and mostly do, grow in soil. My soil does great and is easily and consistently in the top 10% of anything around. Soil smells and tastes are second to none, however, speed of veg growth, color, and general bag appeal are bested by samples done in coco.
As far as watering goes, youre right, there are way better things to be doing than watering 2-3x daily, however in this seasons circumstance, it was all I had. When the shit hit the fan, the only starts I had extra were 48x 5 gallon pots already filled with coco and veggin indoors for the next run, so instead of paying PGE a shit ton of money and putting myself further behind, I threw them outside.
Now, I have done coco outside many times, especially in the dep, but I have never used a pot over 25 gallons. You can easily get 3lbs out of the 25 gal if its fed right, and use way less media that a soil grow. BUT, all the coco I have done outdoors were short season plants, either early or late, and I would never try to go bigger than that, for true giant full season plants soil IS the only way to go.
Also, I would be willing to bet that most of those people you talked to were straight outdoor growers, without a substantial background with coco indoors which may or may not have contributed to my success. As far a the science behind it all, well Im am a science type of guy, but I am also a feel it out grower, and for me personally, coco has kicked soils ass in some instances, but not all. Thats my story and Im stickin to it, if you dont agree thats fine but dont discredit my grows when you havent seen them. I could be hating on your grows because they arent to my liking, but Im not. Cause Im not a dick...
if coco works for you brother Subzro more power to ya,
This plant is still budding. It is enjoying a mix of both. Not a whole lot of Coco, but yes there is some, and verma too.
Out of curiosity...would you mind sharing the Ca and Mg base cation saturation %s of your custom mix? 43 is a nice tcec to work with, gives you plenty of battery if you get it loaded.
edit...also do you happen to know what a yard of coco weighs. All of the pounds per acre stuff is based on an acre of soil weighing 2 million pounds...my peat mix is 750 lbs per yard. I wonder if coco is not lighter which would effect how much it can hold as much as the raw cec numbers.
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whoops! my girls are starting to get haircuts this week. great forecast ahead!
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Cep
Pono what strains did you put in this year and what are your finish dates on each?
I've got some green crack, ecsd, a platinum blue dream, 3 flos, 2 larry og, and the rest are some seed I had crossed or incrossed a few years back of the blue satellite 2.2 x og. 1 is a cross of bogs sour strawberry kush and rezdogs sour d, it is huge and smells like straight chemdawg puke. I also have a mango haze crossed with a quick finishing haze I ran for several years back home that looks like it could finish by Halloween. the green cracks I began taking this week along with tops of the platinum blue dream and a couple of cherry plants. there is definitely some variety in the garden, next year I want to run 3 strains only.
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Cep
Chem puke eh? Wonder how thats going to translate in a bag. I put in green cracks on a suggestion they would be an early finisher, whoops. Smells divine though. 3 or 4 is my plan as well. Have to spread out the chop in order to not ave to hire a crew.
rippers took the tops of 8 -10' blue dreams in my garden on the Wednesday morning they got away with most of it (we caught them as they were loading their truck with bags) this a week after my neighbor across from me had his whole garden taken and didn't tell anyone about it . has anyone in the willits, ukiah, area seen a dark gray to almost black Chevy s-10 pickup with tinted back windows 2 white guys and two Hispanic males about 20-30.
Great grow Brother Pono! You truly are a master Gardener. Your plants are a feast for the eyes.
I think someone on Maui has the GG4 cut. You really should give that a go. That plant has helped several of my buddies. Its cutting edge quality. It fetches top dollar.
I really love GSC, and we ran it this year again, but! Yep I said it. But!, Gorilla4 cut walks all over cookies. Its way stronger, way, way more yield, easy to grow, and is done in 63 days.
Im certain that GG4 in a deep hole or very large Smarty could yield well over 7 KG
Its not just alot of trichomes. The resins are super strong as well. Vision affecting, body rushes etc.
I crossed this one to Headband (Daywrecker) and also Lavender Lights, and Orange Crush.
This plant isnt available in any dispensory. The seeds arent for sale. It is passed one friend to another, free of charge. It comes with great Karma, and Love.
So this is Your heads up all: If a friend of Yours ends up with the GG4 cut, GET A COPY!
Do not pay for this plant, it will be a fake.
I think someone on Maui has the GG4 cut. You really should give that a go. That plant has helped several of my buddies. Its cutting edge quality. It fetches top dollar.
I really love GSC, and we ran it this year again, but! Yep I said it. But!, Gorilla4 cut walks all over cookies. Its way stronger, way, way more yield, easy to grow, and is done in 63 days.
Im certain that GG4 in a deep hole or very large Smarty could yield well over 7 KG
Its not just alot of trichomes. The resins are super strong as well. Vision affecting, body rushes etc.
I crossed this one to Headband (Daywrecker) and also Lavender Lights, and Orange Crush.
This plant isnt available in any dispensory. The seeds arent for sale. It is passed one friend to another, free of charge. It comes with great Karma, and Love.
So this is Your heads up all: If a friend of Yours ends up with the GG4 cut, GET A COPY!
Do not pay for this plant, it will be a fake.
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