the evil claw!!!!

[streetgreen]

so the evil claw has shown up...

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?....WHITE RINO
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)...CLONE
What is the age of your plants?..45 DAYS
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? 5 DAYS IN FLOWER
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) SOIL
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)..5GALLON
What substrate/medium are you using? (percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)FFO AND PERLITE..50/50..lime
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*...VITA MAX
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?...6.8
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?..PH PEN
How often are you watering?EVERY 2 TO 3 DAYS
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using? 1000W
What is the distance to the canopy?.....25
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)35%
What is the canopy temperature?....72F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)..8INCH FAN OUTSIDE AIR DIRECT
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?...50/50 ON SOME PLANTS
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? ..MOIST
Is your water HARD or SOFT? HARD
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?...NO
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?..NO
Are plant's infected with pest's?
...NO

So the deal is this i vegd for 36 days the clones were given to me and they were in bad shape.I showed them some love 5 gallon pots 50/50 ffof and perlite and nuthing but straight ph water 6.2. Everything was fine and i flowered them the last five days,I figured i should feed them a little so gave them a low dose of vita max nute(1tsp to a gallon) because i did not feed them all thru veg because i know that fox farm has enough food to last for a while..Well a few days ago the top leaves started to look like a bunch of treble hooks!!!



so i did some research i have come to the conclusion that i must have gave them food before i needed to...so last night i flushed all the affected plants..So my question is all the other posts i have seen about this say it is most likely a nute problem....AFTER FLUSHING HOW LONG DO U THINK I HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT? ANY HELP WELCOME..

P.S I SEE MR. STITCH YOUR THE MAN TO TALK TO SO ANY HELP HERE...THANX

 

[ganjaLeaving]

hi streetgreen,

the evil claw can be caused from to much nitrogen, however you should not be so drastic with plant problems.

It wasn't necessary to flush your medium. Also, these problems don't go away, only stop spreading. If new growth is coming out healthy, then problem fixed.

Your plants look fine only a bit over-watered. Let them go a bit droopy before watering again. Don't be afraid to feed them after what happened. Take this as something to scale your dose against.

Good luck

 

[British_Bulldog]

AFTER FLUSHING HOW LONG DO U THINK I HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT? ANY HELP WELCOME..

Bide your time and give them a few days & let them pretty much dry out before next watering.

I hate the evil claw too, but I've had it much worse than that - me and my mate never figured out why it was happening, and it was only one clone strain - the others were fine ?? Tired old mum maybe?


Peace

 

[The_Leader]

the claw is a stress sign. now what is stressing the ladies. imho excess nutes, N in particular, will 1st make plant dark green. 2nd it will burn the tips of leaves.

i have seen clawed caused by RH, temps, bugs, light stress, ect. and nutes to.

if its one plant out of many the rule of thumb is its not enviromental or all plants would claw. 1 plant narrows it down. i have even seen gals claw because of direct wind.

oh well. ill delete this soon.

 

[Tommy G]

Hi!

A have a HashPlant clone that is behaving like that in a couple of branches. I'm pretty sure it's a sign of excessive N, for I'm using a soil with an EC of 2,4... I had no other chance than buying Biobizz AllMix this time, the only growshop that I have in 200 miles only had AllMix so I was expecting this to happen anyway. Besides that they all are growing vigorously and the Afghan #1 and BlackJack are not getting afected by this (yet).

I turned them into 12/12h 5 days ago and I don't want to flush them now, but I guess I might have to do it in order to get the EC level lower than 2,0.

Good luck!

 

[MynameStitch]

This is not a case of overfeeding; if it is; I have never seen not one case of nutrient burn start on the upper part of the plant and leave the rest of the plant alone.

How big are these plants?
How long have they been in this mixture?
How close is that 1,000 watter?

Is any other part of the plant affected?
How much do you water?
Have you checked your canopy temps?
Is your mixture 50/50 FFOF and perlite? How much lime did you add; the way you worded it was you added 50/50 of FFOF and lime lol

Leader is right though; claw sign if a stress sign, wheather it's from over watering, nutrient burn or slow dry heat.

Excessive nitrogen will cause not one part of the plant to to this, it's going to affected the entire plant in someway; not cause the entre plant to claw; but will be dark overall green and the claw on this plant is not the same claw like nitrogen toxicity gives you.

This is more like a moisture stress claw like..... leaves cupping under more than claw like....
with him water 2 to 3 days and in 5 gallon size pots; depending on how tall those plants are, he is going to have some moisture stress in those plants.

If you flush that plant now; your problems are going to get worse; do not flush the plant yet. From the pics you posted all I see is a problem with the top part of the plant, now if there is something else wrong with the plant that is not in the pics, post them so we can see. But from the pics... I do not see by far a nutrient burn problem.

 

[streetgreen]

How big are these plants?..about 3ft
How long have they been in this mixture?..41 days
How close is that 1,000 watter? 3o inches

Is any other part of the plant affected?no just the top started
How much do you water?..seriously like every 3 days when the post are light
Have you checked your canopy temps?78-80f
Is your mixture 50/50 FFOF and perlite? How much lime did you add; the way you worded it was you added 50/50 of FFOF and lime lol
1 bag of ffof and and 1 bag perlite/with coco in it/ and 1 cup lime

i thought that it was heat streess but its reall no that hot in it..but my friend who gave me the clones said when he used ffof and feed them once they did the same thing..but then i thought if this was heat stress how come only the top is doing it and not the rest? Well too late for the flush idea cause i did it ....well i will just see and update some pics later...thanx

 

[Kr@kEn]

FFOF is a good soil yes, but you mixed it half and half with perlite (and coco?).
So that means it's half as strong as before because of the inert space you made with the perlite. Adding perlite requires using a little more fertlizer than usual, just a little. Especially during preflower stretch. Just feed 1/4 doses of fertlizer every other watering or so. Should be fine.

I'm wondering if you used to strong of a dose of ferts. Plants have to be eased into fertilizing. And once you start fertilizing you have to continue doing so on a regular basis. This is because of how the roots adjust to feeding. Good luck and grow on.

 

[MynameStitch]

5 gallon size pots and the plants are 3 feet tall you should not have to water every 3 days....

You let run off happen when you water your plants everytime?

I honestly think the flush is going to make matters worse; because those plants are getting there roots a little to wet for there liking and they are showing it slowly....

bigger plants take a big longer to show moisture stress and newer growths from the plant tend to be lower roots in the soil......

which is why the top part of the plant is showing the problem, which means there is water at the bottom of the pots.

So again this is not a fert issue,this is more to due with too much water being at the bottom of the pot and not letting it dry up before you water again.

 

[streetgreen]

thanx for the help....

so u think 80degrees is ok for the room just let the pots dry out more?

im gonna still move the lite a little further away..
and the humidity is 30% when the lites on ...and i just checked the room when the lite is off and the temps are 58 degrees..I will just let them be for a few days and i hope they snap out of it...thanx again

 

[MynameStitch]

No, those temps are not going to do; you don't want temps dropping below 65 at night for flowering...... colder temps cause the plants to slow down and not only they grow slower but there uptake for nutrients slows down too. Cold and warm temps causes issues with them; so keep it stable. Humidity is a little low; has to be from your cold temps.....

80 F is fine for the room temp; canopy temps you want around 75F
Do not let the room temps go over 82

 

[streetgreen]

No, those temps are not going to do; you don't want temps dropping below 65 at night for flowering...... colder temps cause the plants to slow down and not only they grow slower but there uptake for nutrients slows down too. Cold and warm temps causes issues with them; so keep it stable. Humidity is a little low; has to be from your cold temps.....

80 F is fine for the room temp; canopy temps you want around 75F
Do not let the room temps go over 82

thanx for the help stitch i will update a few pics in a few days hope my girls bounce back

 

[lordjack]

i see this is very orld, but still, might help someone.
had the exact same issue, pictures identical.

measured ph and ec of runoff, ph was spot on 6.3, HOWEVER ec was 5.6!!! glad i didnt kill them because they were looking absolutely great until this happened. now, this was early flower, week 2 to be exact. i suspect the issue was because i switched from an organic grow nutr i was given (alga grow from plagron to a mineral one (plagron terra bloom) when i flipped to 12/12 because i like to be precise measuring ec etc. so i was thinking maybe the organic nute was still breaking down to minerals while i was already feeding the mineral bloom nutrient.
now, i flushed them good and proper for 2 days morning and evening, and bam, overnight improvement, even the leaves people were telling me wouldn't ever recover straightened back up.

hope this helps someone.

cheers, jack

 

[Creeperpark]

Sorry, you are having problems! You added the wrong fertilizer that was too strong for the root system. Vitamax pro and Vitamax plus are veg nutrients and not flowering nutrients.

 

[goingrey]

i see this is very orld, but still, might help someone.
had the exact same issue, pictures identical.

measured ph and ec of runoff, ph was spot on 6.3, HOWEVER ec was 5.6!!! glad i didnt kill them because they were looking absolutely great until this happened. now, this was early flower, week 2 to be exact. i suspect the issue was because i switched from an organic grow nutr i was given (alga grow from plagron to a mineral one (plagron terra bloom) when i flipped to 12/12 because i like to be precise measuring ec etc. so i was thinking maybe the organic nute was still breaking down to minerals while i was already feeding the mineral bloom nutrient.
now, i flushed them good and proper for 2 days morning and evening, and bam, overnight improvement, even the leaves people were telling me wouldn't ever recover straightened back up.

hope this helps someone.

cheers, jack

That's interesting. Maybe you're right with the organic grow fertilizer being slow release and it all adding up. But are you sure you weren't just giving too much of the bloom? Is that soil runoff EC? Don't see people measuring that too often, not really sure what the normal range is, but 5.6 does sound high.

 

[Creeperpark]

The evil claw is caused by excess salts in the substrate.

"Water always follows salt because it is a Universal law" and in this case, you have more salt in the soil than in the plant. The liquid in the plant is sucked back into the soil because of this ionic pull. When you see the claw it is because of this universal phenomenon.

Fertilizer burn happens when high concentrations of fertilizer salts draw excess moisture from the root system of the plant or grass. Google

 

[Creeperpark]

How does excess salt affect osmosis in plants?

Due to osmosis, water naturally moves from an area containing less salt to an area containing more salt. The more salt that accumulates in the soil from irrigation and natural occurrence, the more energy that a plant must expend to draw water from the soil into its roots. Google

When you see large leaves cupped looking after watering the above is the reason.

 

[Creeperpark]

Over-fertilized pants are more prone to diseases like mold, pithium, and helminthsporium. It can actually decrease growth and leave plants weak and vulnerable to pests and diseases.

When there’s too much fertilizer in the soil plants cannot take up water correctly. The pressure around the roots gets too high the flow of water reverses. Water always follows salt, so excess salt in the soil will pull water out of the plant leaves. This is where the term burning your plants comes from. The water is flowing from the leaves out the roots and the leaves burn because they don't have water to cool them.

Balancing of Elements. Having the same EC ratio in the medium and the same EC in the plants is key.