terps: total bullshit or part of the buzz?

[stoned-trout]

Part of the buzz...yeehaw

 

[Weird]

One time in the Carib, I hooked up with a steel drum band. Each guy had his own and kept telling me “mine's better” as they were passing me their J’s. I don’t think it was elitism, it was just the way they were. It was hilarious and I got high as hell.

or more succinctly, when a person cultivates a plant, everything from what he chooses to grow and how to grow it is part of selection which is part of preference

this happens on a subconscious level and is limited by factors like resources and exposure but all things equal (in a relative sense at least) the variances are in some way a reflection of preference

preference is much deeper than this but this plays a factor

 

[Gry]

This is a subject Sam addressed long ago. I have always found his take on such things to be invaluable.

 

[Natural high]

All the common terpenes in cannabis are also present in many fruits, flowers and herbs. None of these fruits, flowers etc get you stoned unfortunately. Cannabinoids are the psychoactive compounds present in Cannabis.

 

[Weird]

but non psychoactive substances can potentiate or effect how another substance works

 

[Natural high]

but non psychoactive substances can potentiate or effect how another substance works

Yes I agree that some drugs and pharmaceuticals can interact with certain other substances. One or more terpenes may well have some level of interaction with cannabinoids, but presently there is very little evidence to support this.

 

[MJPassion]

Yes I agree that some drugs and pharmaceuticals can interact with certain other substances. One or more terpenes may well have some level of interaction with cannabinoids, but presently there is very little evidence to support this.

Evidence lacking is no proof against a concept.
It's only proof that studies need to be done.

Imo, proofs are presented on a daily basis that terps interact & enhance an individuals high.

I mean...
Explain why a 25%THCA, 0.5%terps, lab tested, bland tasting, bud barely gets ya high while @ 12% THCA 5%terp bud will get ya absolutely blasted.

Proof does NOT come from a lab!
The lab only tells you WHY.

 

[Weird]

Yes I agree that some drugs and pharmaceuticals can interact with certain other substances. One or more terpenes may well have some level of interaction with cannabinoids, but presently there is very little evidence to support this.

one of the issues that will challenge this is that while paychoactives effect perception secondaries can effect experience

people talk about cannabis allergies and reactions like that syndrome or say a bad reaction to neem, yet no one talks about the effects of terpenes this way

I say this because the only time I had reactions like that (I was born with 129 environmental allergies) where to weeds that had been heavily infested with aphids or mites even without chems made me sick

as if the plants terpenes where expressing that way in a defensive method of ridding itself of insects

while generally science labels allelopathy as negative effecting the experience there are some expressions that we find beneficial

some terpenes are attributed with mood enhancement/changes such as calmness or euphoria

this could be one of the characteristics that makes a smoke like blueberry so subjective yet people who need a calming euphoric smoke prefer no other

now if you can't process that terpene or aren't effected by it to due to biology or lifestyle (certain drugs can block receptors for example) you might not get that added benefit

diff weeds have very deep characteristics to me while for others the variances aren't so stark

I find psychedelics as well as mindfulness helps heighten and understanding the differentials

 

[Natural high]

Explain why a 25%THCA, 0.5%terps, lab tested, bland tasting, bud barely gets ya high while @ 12% THCA 5%terp bud will get ya absolutely blasted.

Cannabinoid = A class of molecule which interacts with the cannabinoid receptors. THCA is only one of more than 100 which have been isolated in Cannabis to date.

Terpenes and cannabinoids are closely related molecules and some cannabinoids have terpene-type aromas. Any terpene which interacts with the cannabinoid receptors would be classed as a cannabinoid by definition.

Cheers

 

[Gr33nSanta]

Cannabinoid = A class of molecule which interacts with the cannabinoid receptors. THCA is only one of more than 100 which have been isolated in Cannabis to date.

Terpenes and cannabinoids are closely related molecules and some cannabinoids have terpene-type aromas. Any terpene which interacts with the cannabinoid receptors would be classed as a cannabinoid by definition.

Cheers

when you say more than 100 cannabinoid which have been isolated, do you include the terpenes that interact with the cannabinoid receptor in that number as well?

 

[Natural high]

when you say more than 100 cannabinoid which have been isolated, do you include the terpenes that interact with the cannabinoid receptor in that number as well?

If an organic molecule is considered a terpene specifically, then it is not a cannabinoid. I am not aware of any terpenes which interact with the cannabinoid receptors, either as an agonist or antagonist.

 

[angelgoob]

beta carophyllene. bam!

 

[brown_thumb]

beta carophyllene. bam!

I don't know what terpines are best used as agonists for THC but I had a few plants that had a very strong 'black peppercorn' fragrance and those were very potent indeed. Carophyllene is the terp which smells like black peppercorns.

 

[Phaeton]

If an organic molecule is considered a terpene specifically, then it is not a cannabinoid. I am not aware of any terpenes which interact with the cannabinoid receptors, either as an agonist or antagonist.

White Grapefruit (man made hybrid) juice does not attach itself to opioid or any other brain receptors.
But in addition to some opiate users chugging a glass or two to extend their feelings, many mood elevating prescription drugs carry a warning not to drink White Grapefruit juice while on medication. This is because a liver created enzyme used to break opiate molecules and other neuron attachment chemicals is blocked by an ingredient in the juice.

More is involved in drug interactions than receptor sites. In the above example the liver causes the drug potency to be magnified and the duration extended.

Terpene's effects may be in an area divorced from any brain activity and still have a major effect on the perceived experience.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

White Grapefruit (man made hybrid) juice does not attach itself to opioid or any other brain receptors.
But in addition to some opiate users chugging a glass or two to extend their feelings, many mood elevating prescription drugs carry a warning not to drink White Grapefruit juice while on medication. This is because a liver created enzyme used to break opiate molecules and other neuron attachment chemicals is blocked by an ingredient in the juice.

More is involved in drug interactions than receptor sites. In the above example the liver causes the drug potency to be magnified and the duration extended.

Terpene's effects may be in an area divorced from any brain activity and still have a major effect on the perceived experience.

Wow thanks for bringing up the grapefruit effect. I'd learned about that before, but I guess I never thought about it too much. I just now realized why I was told last century that it was a good idea to drink grapefruit juice before you take acid.
I'd though it was just hippie superstition or something all these years, but I just looked up a list of drugs with delayed metabolization caused by grapefruit and ergotamine was on the list. The grapefruit effect was first published in 1989, but somehow hippies knew about it beforehand, a story that seems the repeat itself often.

If some of the citrusy flavor chemicals in some strains do the same thing that the citrus chemicals from the grapefruit do then that could have a legit impact on intensity & duration of high.
The grapefruit effect is said to occur several days after ingestion of the fruit though, so you might need to smoke that bag of grapefruit terp bud for a while before the effects really take over.

 

[angelgoob]

Also, besides that, the amount of apigenin and rosmarinic acid are important to determine the GABA (gamma amino-butyric acid) receptors involved in anxiety and stimulation.


Secondly, I have tried the mango. Doesn't work.

Guess what though? Tried again with some mango super drink I got. Yes, it worked! Don't know if they cooked together well with apples or something, but if definitely added a body high and defeated anxiety. This was with edibles though. That's myrcene.

The nose and olfactory senses have big brain parts dedicated to stuff. Let's not forget that smell itself of a plant elicits a response in humans, especially if you are directly inhaling it.

 

[clearheaded]

I think its not a coincidence that terps that are associated with indica happen to be harsher ie pinine myrcene. I do think this is part of the experience, when smoke has that harsher bite if u will it tends to be more of a down, confusing(for me at lest) high. while lighter oranges lemons tend to be smoother and also dont set off the high as dark. similar to setting for highs, if inhale some nasty fire smoke it tends to make u feel sorta crappy or sleepy for a time, coupled with a phycoactive substance.(uncomfortable in a shroom trip example). Also, this can be observed in smoking flower vs hash or concentrates. smoking flower 95% of the time has a bit of a more foggy or indica type high, while smoking hash or concentrates in general if smoking same strain of flower and hash will be a more uppy clear effect, perhaps because of the less inhale of "harsh" or just more smoke.

Also of course the smell similarly is part of the setting. ie do u really LOVE that smell. aswell as we know some smells are more invigorating like ecolyptus, flowers, lemon mint, vs more comfy smells of musk cedar pine. so simply the smell as apposed to physical changes in how the thc "works", as its part of the setting if u will. not whole part but surely some of effects.

another is some terpenes are solvents, which say limonene, if inhaled oil vapor of limonene and thc. I would be willing to bet the precence of these solvents(like eating thc in oil or ethanol) pass into the lungs faster. Of course the speed at which chemicals reach the brain plays a huge role in effects. ie eaten morphine vs shooting heroin(heroin being prodrug and what actually gets u high is the morphine).

and of course yes the presence of CBN, as indicas ripen faster there is more of a chance they have the potent CBN as apposed to sativas that dont produce those amber trichs of cbn as easy. as many people have observed the effects from "later harvest" being more "indica like". which also plays into the effect of "harsher" terps, as earlier in harvest more lighter les harsh terps are there while later in harvest deeper darker more harsh terpenes seem to be in higher ratio.

I think as time goes on we will see there is many things all happening at the same time and not so simple. also HUGE factor is plecebo aswell and dosage etc, maybe even how dense nugs burn vs airy sativa nugs burn will change chemistry, burn hotter. many little subtle factors, especially that its a phycoactive substance.

cheers

 

[angelgoob]

Different plants are for different animals and different functions.

Examples THC vs THCV. Agonist vs antagonist.

CBN. Fuck yes. Decarb your shit and make caps with straight cannabis and fish oil! Believe me on this one.


um. who ate seeds, shit them out and grew bomb? nobody? thought so. lol

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

Pinaceae Abies balsamea (L.) P. Mill.
Balsam Fir
Chippewa - Drug, Analgesic

Use documented by:
Densmore, Frances, 1928, Uses of Plants by the Chippewa Indians, SI-BAE Annual Report #44:273-379, page 338

View all documented uses for Abies balsamea (L.) P. Mill.
Scientific name: Abies balsamea (L.) P. Mill.
USDA symbol: ABBA (View details at USDA PLANTS site)
Common names: Balsam Fir
Family: Pinaceae
Family (APG): Pinaceae
Native American Tribe: Chippewa
Use category: Drug
Use sub-category: Analgesic
Notes: Gum melted on warm stone and fumes inhaled for headache.
RECRD: 80002 id: 45

I came across this interesting reference when I was looking for something else. I have wondered about dabbing tree sap just because it looks dabbable and usually has a pretty strong odor. Apparently others have already checked it out.

 

[angelgoob]

fuck an essential oil

get some lavender tea and do your everclear extract and dab it.

I also read THC is a terpene. BOT IM NOT SURE if that's a smell. LOL.

tasteless odorless? Cmon it's gotta...gotta..taste like something. Did the scientists who tested it not have the taste bud for it?

Coz I'd take a hit and be like "yup, it's about 99% THC i can tell"