WOW That would be a little scary and messy lol. I let my column soak for 2 minutes or so and notice that there is a slight pressure build from the trapped butane but never more then 10psi. But if you had column heat and forgot about the machine while soaking(who forgets they are running a machine??) and didnt really have cold butane to begin with, i could see how the pressure could rise to 50psi or so. What are those sight glasses rated for anyway??
Terpenation at Terpene Station
- Thread starter FatherEarth
- Start date
Young Bull
Member
I agree, when I opened my dump it never jumped to more than 10 from -10. That's the whole system so the tube when it is closed off might be higher but I can't imagine it would be that high. I'm sure we could get a gauge attached to the top part for when it's closed off. I'm not sure what they are rated to. I'm curious to know.
We've tested sight glasses them to 100 psi. Henry's law tells us that a gas expands and pressure increases in direct proportion to its temperature rise from absolute zero.
The same guy exploded both of them, suggesting he should yak less, and keep his mind on business while processing.
The same guy exploded both of them, suggesting he should yak less, and keep his mind on business while processing.
rb extractors
Member
sounds like the dude needs to be chained to the machine and wearing earplugs so that he has to focus. :/
rb extractors
Member
I think when running bottom heat we don't hit more than 20psi when the heat is finally added, but we are running a larger system
Been waiting to upgrade my mk3 now I think I will wait for the right sight glass to be designed for us. Then add it along with top rinse as well since it seems to be the way to go. Sure would be cool if there was a pump designed for us since the g5 has its down sides.
Young Bull
Member
I'm sure one will be in the works sooner or later, but don't expect it to be cheap. SPR, Cascade TEK, and I think even NASA are working together on an oven if I recall correctly that will be The oven to have. Knowing GW I'm sure a pump is somewhere on the list.
Did we ever get the results from the pump contest? Or did that never happen? Or do I just not remember because I spend to much time medicated? lol
rb extractors
Member
I think the sight glass we use is more than adequate as long as you understand its limitations. otherwise you could use a cross with two viewing ports on either side using metaglass. Of course you are looking at about 1K.
yeah, I don't think there is a pump out there that works that shouldn't be considered disposable.
yeah, I don't think there is a pump out there that works that shouldn't be considered disposable.
We tested our sight glasses to insure they were adequate for the pressures we were using, but still feel vulnerable to sharp changes in temperature, and high pressure from screw-ups, given how many stoned brothers and sisters operate them, and how far some stray off the beaten path experimenting. Hee, hee, hee, like Moi for instance...........
I personally design pressure vessels to at least 3X my maximum screw up pressure, which so far has been about 80 psi but I've seen air leaks that raised tank pressure high enough to shut off the Appions at over 500 psi tank pressure, which if combined with a 80 psi screw up, could conceivably raise system pressure even higher.
Commercial units, meeting ASME standards, will either have to meet maximum pressure design criteria, including safety factor, and have pressure relief once those limits are exceeded.
WolfWurx, Inc, of course includes a Swageloc factory set and safety wired pressure relief valve, which would ostensibly save the sight glass under ambient conditions, but cryogenic conditions induce additional stresses, so we are searching further and will just make our own sight glass, if we can't find one that we love.
Not too dissimilar to the cross you suggest, with thick wafers of glass for ports.
I'm convinced enough that R Bong squarely smacked the nail on the head, to have gone off in that direction. Simply said, we require an oil less design, and the available oil less design don't tolerate long periods of running dry.
I haven't tried the Reftec, because they never bothered to answer either of my voice mails when I stood money in hand for a Mitivac, but have tried the Appion G-5, and the CPS TR-21 with MT-69 aftercooler, neither of which stand up to long term pulls at low vacuum.
RB tells us that Reftec too has fallen short of the mark, soooooooo I ordered a couple Gast two cylinder diaphragm pumps, which will run long periods at lower vacuum than the oil less piston pumps, but are incapable of producing as much pressure as is required on the discharge side.
That leaves two interesting possibilities, the first is as R Bong outlined. Recover from the pot and columns using the diaphram pump, discharging into an axillary low pressure storage tank with a pressure switch, which turns on the oil less recovery pump when it reaches set point. The oil less pump, then pumps from the axillary tank to the holding tank, but stops before pulling a negative pressure and running "dry."
The second is cryo-pumping. If you run the discharge from the diaphragm pump through a steep enough drop heat exchanger, with say liquid nitrogen on the other side, the diaphram pump could easily perform the desired task. Got that on a professional cryogenic equipment design brother's list, and awaiting a hole in his schedule.
I personally design pressure vessels to at least 3X my maximum screw up pressure, which so far has been about 80 psi but I've seen air leaks that raised tank pressure high enough to shut off the Appions at over 500 psi tank pressure, which if combined with a 80 psi screw up, could conceivably raise system pressure even higher.
Commercial units, meeting ASME standards, will either have to meet maximum pressure design criteria, including safety factor, and have pressure relief once those limits are exceeded.
WolfWurx, Inc, of course includes a Swageloc factory set and safety wired pressure relief valve, which would ostensibly save the sight glass under ambient conditions, but cryogenic conditions induce additional stresses, so we are searching further and will just make our own sight glass, if we can't find one that we love.
Not too dissimilar to the cross you suggest, with thick wafers of glass for ports.
I'm convinced enough that R Bong squarely smacked the nail on the head, to have gone off in that direction. Simply said, we require an oil less design, and the available oil less design don't tolerate long periods of running dry.
I haven't tried the Reftec, because they never bothered to answer either of my voice mails when I stood money in hand for a Mitivac, but have tried the Appion G-5, and the CPS TR-21 with MT-69 aftercooler, neither of which stand up to long term pulls at low vacuum.
RB tells us that Reftec too has fallen short of the mark, soooooooo I ordered a couple Gast two cylinder diaphragm pumps, which will run long periods at lower vacuum than the oil less piston pumps, but are incapable of producing as much pressure as is required on the discharge side.
That leaves two interesting possibilities, the first is as R Bong outlined. Recover from the pot and columns using the diaphram pump, discharging into an axillary low pressure storage tank with a pressure switch, which turns on the oil less recovery pump when it reaches set point. The oil less pump, then pumps from the axillary tank to the holding tank, but stops before pulling a negative pressure and running "dry."
The second is cryo-pumping. If you run the discharge from the diaphragm pump through a steep enough drop heat exchanger, with say liquid nitrogen on the other side, the diaphram pump could easily perform the desired task. Got that on a professional cryogenic equipment design brother's list, and awaiting a hole in his schedule.
Young Bull
Member
So I noticed on a paramount order sheet for the 1/4" npt - 1/4" flare adapter(and other sizes) that they bare this warning... I'm not sure how I overlooked this, did any one else notice this? Shouldn't we be sourcing this part in SS or at least a lead free brass?
48 X 4 X 4 WTHD EA EA
WARNING! THIS ITEM CONTAINS
LEAD. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR USE ON
POTABLE WATER
48 X 4 X 4 WTHD EA EA
WARNING! THIS ITEM CONTAINS
LEAD. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR USE ON
POTABLE WATER
RegisPhilburn1
Member
^^Stainless JIC are available on amazon
rb extractors
Member
are they cheaper than what you are getting up your way?
HighStateToke
Member
Thanks for the reply one page back GW, you are the man.
So I am trying to figure out the lower end of the acceptable temperature range for PTFE gaskets, I would like to use them on 1.5" tri clamp connections due to ease of maintenance and durability. Glacier says -20F while other sites say -100F and -40F! Any insight is very much appreciated, as always!
As for sight glasses, I contacted L.J. Star inc. for a quote, they have some which are rated for 200+ psi and a for a little bit above $200(was a few weeks ago so I am not sharp on that info) Here is their site if anyone is interested. http://www.ljstar.com/products/products.aspx?pl=4
There are definitely better sight glasses out there, just for a pretty penny. Also, most are not listed for the public market to put in their online cart.
So I am trying to figure out the lower end of the acceptable temperature range for PTFE gaskets, I would like to use them on 1.5" tri clamp connections due to ease of maintenance and durability. Glacier says -20F while other sites say -100F and -40F! Any insight is very much appreciated, as always!
As for sight glasses, I contacted L.J. Star inc. for a quote, they have some which are rated for 200+ psi and a for a little bit above $200(was a few weeks ago so I am not sharp on that info) Here is their site if anyone is interested. http://www.ljstar.com/products/products.aspx?pl=4
There are definitely better sight glasses out there, just for a pretty penny. Also, most are not listed for the public market to put in their online cart.
HighStateToke
Member
Rb, I know you have gaskets rated for colder temperatures. If you wont share the material, can I grab some through you?
Dupont PTFE is rated to -268C and is still flexible above about -79C. http://www.rjchase.com/ptfe_handbook.pdf
Use high pressure clamps to get a seal, because it isn't as forgiving as buna or viton.
Use high pressure clamps to get a seal, because it isn't as forgiving as buna or viton.
Good eye. Up to recently they didn't have to report the lead in the brass, and all brass doesn't contain lead.
As noted, a 304 or 316 SS JIC fitting would be a good solution.
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rb extractors
Member
of course... just email me. there are two different types. an all ptfe that is rated to -100f and a metal impregnated ptfe that goes to -350. the later is going to be wildly expensive
rb extractors
Member
not yet, but it is just a beefier gasket setup. still isn't a permanent solution. you can get the kit at century tool I think for 100 plus shipping since it is 3 different parts. model #sb6001, sb3005, cp1010c cp1009, sb2027, sb2026
