Tending Your Reservoir for a Full pH Swing and Cleaner Cannabis

[Douglas.Curtis]

My understanding is that an overfed plant drinks more water than nutes, causing the ppm to rise. This is not the case. My ppm always stays level or goes down, while the same is true of my ph.

Next run, try what you would consider 'underfeeding.'

At 3 weeks till harvest, I *always* have yellowing already. Flower bulking has quit and the only thing going on is oil production. The only time I don't see yellowing is when I'm feeding for seeds.

Can the pH swing be utilized with the Hempy style?

I'd like to go to a setup that uses a res, but for now, it's perlite Hempys.

Hempys are a hybrid. They have both roots which are constantly wet, and roots which sit in perlite which is damp and then dry'ish. I really have no clue how pH behaves in this setup. My guess is the pH drops as the perlite dries out, since this is what happens with clay pebbles and other media.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

All that's been ruled out. I use the same nutes that you use at the same strength. I buffer with a bit of quality tap water, which helps to slow the swing, and the dmzone I add def isn't the culprit.

I can't help but think after all this time that it isn't something with my environment in particular. Honestly, I've seen my cuttings express better smells and flavors in the hands of novices across town in growing conditions that were less ideal than what I have here. It's puzzling.

Possible they were feeding the plants completely different food. My yummiest smoke has been from nothing but decent soil and bokashi compost buried in it.

As for hydro. All the people that I know with yummy hydro are all about the less is more approach.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

Some real back and forth going on in here!

Firstly, as stated in your original post, ppm drop signifies an acceptable feed strength. This is what I have read, it’s what you have read, it’s what we’ve all read.

NATURALLY, when you draw the acids out of solution, the ph rises. k.

My ppm is dropping, and so is my ph, and seemingly in the absence of any bacteriological hoo-ha. It’s kind of a mind f*ck.

That’s the riddle. Whether my plants are too green is inconsequential.

Secondly, the plant was fading hard in that photo. The parabolic scrog screens along with the low clearance in my crawl space made it very difficult to photograph any nugs weren’t on the far exterior of the lights footprint. Those nugs don’t fade out quite as fast, they’ve pretty much been shaded out.

The fans on all the nice tops closer to the light are yellow af, and always are 3-4 weeks before chop. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Regardless of the yellowing, if you've overfed your plants it's damaged the roots and pH is going to drop. Any time I overfeed I get the exact same issue, the pH starts dropping. The more I overfeed, the more it drops like a rock. There isn't any bacteria, it's the roots breaking down and dropping the pH.

You're overfeeding, plain and simple.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Next run, try what you would consider 'underfeeding.'

At 3 weeks till harvest, I *always* have yellowing already. Flower bulking has quit and the only thing going on is oil production. The only time I don't see yellowing is when I'm feeding for seeds.

Hempys are a hybrid. They have both roots which are constantly wet, and roots which sit in perlite which is damp and then dry'ish. I really have no clue how pH behaves in this setup. My guess is the pH drops as the perlite dries out, since this is what happens with clay pebbles and other media.

Thanks. I'm running some tests now to see how I can implement a swing.

Methinks I'll be looking to change to a more suitable format in the near future.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Remember roots in, pH rises as the ppm drops. Roots out, pH drops as the media dries out between waterings. Roots out has some of the pH swing happen in the root zone and not in the reservoir. The reservoir pH still needs to swing a bit, just not as much.

Keep us posted.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

So, I've been thinking about it backward. I was keeping the pH of the solution lower initially so it would rise as it dried out. I'll put it back up to around 6.

My main reason for going down this rabbit hole was noticing that about 6 of my plants in veg were showing signs of something going on. What exactly, I'm not certain. Light green on top with a withdrawn, almost curling inward look. I flushed and things are looking better though. I believe it's due to them being 20" in solo cups.

Thankfully it should be a self-solving issue, as I now have the room to expand.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

So, I've been thinking about it backward. I was keeping the pH of the solution lower initially so it would rise as it dried out. I'll put it back up to around 6.

Gradually change your input over a week time from 6.3 to 6.5. You may find much better results.

My main reason for going down this rabbit hole was noticing that about 6 of my plants in veg were showing signs of something going on. What exactly, I'm not certain. Light green on top with a withdrawn, almost curling inward look.

Keep an eye on them. When the top growth is light green/yellow and much smaller growth, look at the leaves where they connect to the stem. If the edges of these leaves are curling up, you may have broad mites. Here's a bunch of images...

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Gradually change your input over a week time from 6.3 to 6.5. You may find much better results.

Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how it goes. I'm used to straight hydro and now I'm coming from playing with dirt for the past 3 years. Oddly enough, I was running at 6.5 in the soil. I did have it heavily amended with perlite, though.

Keep an eye on them. When the top growth is light green/yellow and much smaller growth, look at the leaves where they connect to the stem. If the edges of these leaves are curling up, you may have broad mites. Here's a bunch of images...

They're not doing that, but thanks for the scare though

Nothing quite keeps me up at night like the thought of broads/russets. Seriously. I've had SMs for the past 3 years, but I've learned to manage with IPM. But broads? Hell no!

I'm gonna have to figure out how to post pics safely at some point.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I've been working on a mite thread for a while, but I keep getting side-tracked. Indoor, mites are simple to eliminate. It's learning how to work in your grow room cleanly which takes a while.

 

[RockinRobot]

I've been working on a mite thread for a while, but I keep getting side-tracked. Indoor, mites are simple to eliminate. It's learning how to work in your grow room cleanly which takes a while.

Keeping the room clean is the most important part of any insect control.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Exactly.

 

[ValleyHill]

Do plants excrete via the roots if they eat a lot
Do humans go to the toilet if they eat a lot
Big thanks to Douglas Curtis for the information in here would love to grow dec without doing a res change
My way of thinking is this
If you keep your ec low and allow the plants to go thru a full ph swing then eventually the plant exudates, releases acids back into the water thus lowering your ph back down below the 5.2 freshold, whilst the plant is going thru this just top up with normal water to keep the ph within the acceptable range once ph drop stabilises.empty tank and start with fresh nutes again. When a plant exudates whilst growing in pots of coco or soil its buffered by the coco and soil particles thus holding away from the plant. In water culture its plain to see when the plants shitting and that's the beauty of it.you know exactly what's going on via your ph pen and ec truncheon plants store food and its readily available in just water
They got to go to the toilet so what do you want to do keep ramming food down there throats

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Look forward to reading it. It's always a fun struggle!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Do plants excrete via the roots if they eat a lot
Do humans go to the toilet if they eat a lot
Big thanks to Douglas Curtis for the information in here would love to grow dec without doing a res change
My way of thinking is this
If you keep your ec low and allow the plants to go thru a full ph swing then eventually the plant exudates, releases acids back into the water thus lowering your ph back down below the 5.2 freshold

The plant releases exudates based on environmental conditions and stressors. In this instance, my belief is it's over feeding triggering the excretion. This would explain why there's no slime, no rot, yet the pH is dropping like a rock.

What Can Go Wrong?
While many root exudate compounds create beneficial conditions in the rhizosphere by encouraging certain microbes or changing the physical or chemical conditions surrounding the roots, occasionally this process can go wrong.

Plant stressors, such as unfavorable growing conditions, high EC, low moisture levels, nutrient deficiency, lack of oxygen in the root zone and overcrowding, place pressure on the root system and promote the release of an increased amount of different types of root exudates.

They got to go to the toilet so what do you want to do keep ramming food down there throats

When you over-feed, they protest in the only way they know how? Again, this happens after flower bulking quits and people insist on maintaining high EC. It's why I drastically reduce nutrient levels at this point and 'fade' to the finish.

The mention of nutrient deficiency leads me to question if there is something missing. A change at this point in NPK/Micro needs I do not know about. Perhaps with this element or elements present, a higher EC can be maintained without triggering the pH drop. Interesting question I do not have the resources to pursue at the moment.

Thank you.

 

[ValleyHill]

At Douglas Curtis
Thanks for reply
Vh

 

[ValleyHill]

The plant releases exudates based on environmental conditions and stressors. In this instance, my belief is it's over feeding triggering the excretion. This would explain why there's no slime, no rot, yet the pH is dropping like a rock.




When you over-feed, they protest in the only way they know how? Again, this happens after flower bulking quits and people insist on maintaining high EC. It's why I drastically reduce nutrient levels at this point and 'fade' to the finish.

The mention of nutrient deficiency leads me to question if there is something missing. A change at this point in NPK/Micro needs I do not know about. Perhaps with this element or elements present, a higher EC can be maintained without triggering the pH drop. Interesting question I do not have the resources to pursue at the moment.

Thank you.

Mate I just wrote a post a 1000 words long and when I went to post it. I lost it lol.
I basically think some people are not using water culture to it's full potential it is only my belief because it seems there are many ways to reach the end goal growing in water
Less is more for me in water culture and if dialed in the way I do it. the plant uses more nutrients at lower ec levels than a plant that is fed at much higher ec levels it also uses the nutrients in a better way, like a well tuned machine.
Atb vh

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Mate I just wrote a post a 1000 words long and when I went to post it. I lost it lol.

I feel your pain. I use a text editor on a saved file, especially when it's more than a paragraph or two.

https://smoke.io/chs/@douglas.curtis/is-your-organic-pesticide-making-you-illI basically think some people are not using water culture to it's full potential it is only my belief because it seems there are many ways to reach the end goal growing in water
Less is more for me in water culture and if dialed in the way I do it. the plant uses more nutrients at lower ec levels than a plant that is fed at much higher ec levels it also uses the nutrients in a better way, like a well tuned machine.
Atb vh[/quote]
I feel the same way, and have been hampered by lack of budget to fix some of this ignorance.

High transpiration is the key here. I feel you're right on target with lower EC ending up providing higher levels than otherwise thought. I need to learn quite a bit more about what's going on during the main changes in flowering. I'm always looking for additional information.

 

[ValleyHill]

One of the first things I've noticed going into flowering is around 0 to 21 days pre flower as we call it. if fed at a low ec allowing the plants to use them nutrients correctly. Ie pumping that water around its system at a high rate at 21 days the plants made its mind up that vegetation is over and pre flower is over it knows its job is to begin to go into full on flower production .the more white pistols the bigger the flower production
When I first started out. I used to grow in soil. What I noticed was around 21 days the soil used to go very acidic.i knew this from soil ph testing
To combat this I started to add dolomite lime to my soil to keep the ph in range and buffer the soil
I believe that around this time of plant development the plant is excreteing exudates to get it ready for the next stage. Peak white pistol flower production as I would call it. In soil it just stays there around the roots and is buffered by the soil. In water however if like I said above at 21 days I noticed the same drop in ph. It's got to be the plant excreteing exudates but the beauty is I don't have to keep it around the roots in the solution . I just keep adding water till its cleaned itself ( ph as stopped dropping) empty my tank and refill with a low ec and off a go again letting the plants use them in the correct way. Were now ready to produce as many white pistols as possible 21 to 42 days strain dependent.
Vh

 

[ValleyHill]

I think people are just locking nutrients within the plant at these higher ec measures if you think about it for example
Fill tank add nutrients to an ec value of 0.8 set ph to desired level and off you go. To do this example you have used 100ml a and 100ml b ec remains stable over a week or there abouts
Now let's say you have used a low ec of 0.2 and
phd tank to desired level . Over the course of the week you will have topped up tank with water and added nutes to bring back to 0.2 . Over course of week you will probably do this 4 times so the plant as eaten just as much,or you have used just as much mls per litre of food as the plant that's been fed at 0.8 ec. The only difference is the plant at lower ec as actually used the food to it's full potential. Food water food water and so on its constantly nourished and hydrated . Plants fed at to high an ec cant do this and thus the salts get locked within them and they cant utilize them properly. Seen it many times resin spewing buds
Not for me mate. Like I said earlier many different ways to reach the end goal and we all have different ways of doing things. Theres no right or wrong way. I just do it my way and it works for me
Here to learn
Atb vh