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River-Running
Member
Any thoughts on using Bamboo Charcoal in a water filtration set-up? This material is widely used in Japan commercially and was hoping someone might have personal experience.
This would be primarily for making AACT and botanical teas like Comfrey, Yarrow, et al.
RR
This would be primarily for making AACT and botanical teas like Comfrey, Yarrow, et al.
RR
S
SeaMaiden
I feel that you are not only putting words in my mouth, but that you are not at all receptive to anything that doesn't fit with your dogmatic views here. Because of my own current limitations I'm going to keep it simple. Learn what you're talking about. Bleach is how effective at removing, for instance, PM spores from surfaces? That's right, it's not. Why? Could it be that contact time issue? Do you care to try to explain why it's not the go-to STERILIZER of choice in the applications I mention, or are you simply going to insist that, when it comes to disease control, it's your way or the highway? If you had any familiarity with the products I am trying to discuss here, then you would understand what they do, and DON'T do.
Do I achieve anything by recounting my experiences and observations working at a large public aquarium? If not, please let me know, because being unable to use a proper keyboard makes outlining my stance and argument time consuming and difficult and I'd rather not waste my time.
Quick question for you, though, are you aware of the importance of microbes in marine aquatics husbandry? In all stable aquatic systems, actually. Why are Cl, soap, H2O2 NOT used to sanitize surfaces for brewing beer or winemaking? Both processes just happen to *require* cultivation of.....? Could it be microbes?
Let me offer a preemptive apology if I come off sounding rude, but I perceive a serious case of close-mindedness on your part here, and frankly, I resent having words put into my mouth while seeing that you refuse to consider there to be an iota of validity to my points.
Rubbing alcohol is better than bleach.
Water & scrub brush is all that is needed unless once a year or three cleaning glass bonded diffusers, in which case you should use a very harmful cleanser, muriatic acid
C
CT Guy
In larger brewers, I've found a pressure washer is the easiest way to clean a tank or container. If there's a lot of biofilm, you could add an anti-bacterial agent (oxyclean is one popular choice). With my 5 gallon brewer, I use a small amount of dish soap and a rag to clean it quickly.
As far as "best" options, I'll defer to others with more experience (see above posts).
As far as "best" options, I'll defer to others with more experience (see above posts).
Not sure which words I put in your mouth. If you would like to point them out, I'll remove them.
we aren't making wine, we are culturing compost. you simply don't need to sterilize things. You are comparing a safety pin to a shotgun.
you can brew ACT in an old dirty bucket with no issues. I've used many dirty buckets and had good results (lots of movement, high number of visible organisms per frame, way more flagellates than cilliates by far... happy plants...
If I am making something for human consumption, like wine or beer, then I have to follow food safety rules, and that means sterilizing things. In the past I have not sterilized brewing equipment of that nature with bleach, but rather with packets of stuff the brew store sold us (it was a long time ago).
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Vortex Brewer Clogging
Vortex Brewer Clogging
About a month ago or so I put together a diy 5 gallon vortex brewer. At first I had problems with it being leaky. Fixed those, and now as irony would have it I'm being plagued by clogs in it.
For the first time today I ran a more nutrient oriented, as opposed to one for simple innoculation, tea through the brewer. Used about 1 cup of compost, 1/2 cup EWC, pinches of various meals, fish hydrolysate, rock phosphate, molasses.
Within ten minutes of adding these things the flow was cut nearly in half.
I don't use a mesh bag because the article on microbeorganics.com about the diy vortex brewer says it's pointless. I don't mind having the ingredients still in suspension because I'm not spraying it, but I'm not sure what to do besides use a mesh bag.
How do ya'll avoid clogging in a free-suspension tea brewer?
Vortex Brewer Clogging
About a month ago or so I put together a diy 5 gallon vortex brewer. At first I had problems with it being leaky. Fixed those, and now as irony would have it I'm being plagued by clogs in it.
For the first time today I ran a more nutrient oriented, as opposed to one for simple innoculation, tea through the brewer. Used about 1 cup of compost, 1/2 cup EWC, pinches of various meals, fish hydrolysate, rock phosphate, molasses.
Within ten minutes of adding these things the flow was cut nearly in half.
I don't use a mesh bag because the article on microbeorganics.com about the diy vortex brewer says it's pointless. I don't mind having the ingredients still in suspension because I'm not spraying it, but I'm not sure what to do besides use a mesh bag.
How do ya'll avoid clogging in a free-suspension tea brewer?
I use the best ingredients and that helps a lot. My castings are pure castings and doesn't have bark or other crap in it to clog anything. I found that makes the biggest difference.
Edit: you should check out microbeorganics.com and use his tea recipe.
Edit: you should check out microbeorganics.com and use his tea recipe.
Believe it or not I actually did get my base recipe from Microbeman's website. Granted, I did add a couple things (pinches of meals) and I'm not sure, but I don't think the meals should be clogging anything. They are very very small.
Who knows.... guess next time around I'll stick straight to his recipe and see if it helps.
It's the way guys are wired. We all want to tweak, add, modify. I'm as guilty as the next. That's what makes soil hard for some. We want to check pH, PPM, add nutes, bottles, etc. All largely unnecessary if not counter-productive
What I say on the webpage;
To use a mesh container, as stated, all I can think of is suspending a closed bag where it will be constantly in the flow of the return nozzle but then you will lose your vortex.
What is your design like? Do you have a true cone bottom vessel or are you using a pail and bulkhead? What size pipe in what configuration? What size pump? What size air tubing?
What size chunks are in your compost? Does it have clay or sand-like consistency?
Are you fine grinding the soft rock phosphate? (this is not a real necessary ingredient; did you see my videos using only molasses and VC?)
When we feed our worms, for the most part, we ensure that there are very few large chunks going in (except some horse poops) so that it is all easily digested in the same period of time.
Stalevar: Looking back in the thread I think I see your problem.
Did you use the Storch design, rather than my simple design? With so many riser pipes, you need a very gutsy pump to prevent clogging. You will likely overcome your troubles by following my design or getting more air going to the air lifts. A larger pump may be required.
Did you use the Storch design, rather than my simple design? With so many riser pipes, you need a very gutsy pump to prevent clogging. You will likely overcome your troubles by following my design or getting more air going to the air lifts. A larger pump may be required.
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I'll be damned....
I'll be damned....
As the title states, I'll be damned. Came home tonight and somehow the thing is flowing like a champ again and is foaming up like it's goin outa style.
Here's the brewer in action
Sorry about the weird angle. Not sure why my camera did that, and I didn't catch it before I uploaded.
The return spouts and foam
The pump
Again, I apologize for the bad angle.
It's an Active Aqua pump purchased from the local hydro shop. The pump is distributed by Hydrofarm, and puts out 110lpm. I bought one this big A) to be on the safe side for a 5-gallon vortex brewer and B) so that I can get to work on my next project: an airlift 50 gal brewer.
Everything (with one exception) is consistent with Mr. Storch's setup. 1.5" sched 40 PVC fittings all around. I'm using 1.5"L x .75"W sweetwater medium bore defusers that are connected via 3/16" PE line, since 3/16" is the size of the nozzles on the rail. The exception is that Stephen used 1.5" sched40 DWV Ts at the bottom of his risers. I wanted the design more compact so I could fit it in a rubbermaid to catch any leaks. Therefore I replaced the Ts with 1.5" sched40 NON-DWV 90deg elbows. I went with non-DWV because the 90deg DWV elbows have a very small mating surface, and are very curved as opposed to being hard 90deg turns. The elbows are like a focal point of all the weight in this setup, and the DWV 90deg elbows are too flimsy, wouldn't support the system very well, and leaked.
Initially I had thought Mr. Storch used Ts at the bottom of the risers, as opposed to elbows, to create a wider base and add stability. I thought it was overkill. Now, thinking back on my first brew when I actually had Ts in there, I remember when I took it apart to clean it the compost was all bunched up inside the caps located past said Ts. I wonder if Storch used Ts instead of elbows specifically to avoid clogs in the elbows.
Admittedly I once tested the brewer using 2x3/16" lines dropped down each riser. It definitely increased the flow of water. However, I only have 6 difusers. The two return lines that just had open air line hanging in them had a very "jerky" kinda flow without the difusers. So I scratched the idea and only use 4 lines currently.
On my to do list is get a few more difusers so I can go back to 2 lines in each return tube. Also on the to do list is exactly as you recommend on your website; remove that brass fitting from the pump. Just been busy and haven't gotten around to replumbing the system yet.
In its finished state this compost is actually more like a mulch. So before I fired up the tumbler last night I screened the compost through a 1/4" hardware cloth screen.
Should I just say fuck the rail that came with the pump alltogether, and cobble together my own rail? I'm thinking maybe junk the brass fitting, rough up the metal nozzle so I can get a larger hose over it, T the hose, then T twice for a total of four lines.
Assuming that will increase my air flow to each of the difusers, will the size of the difuser come into play at all? Aquaticeco's website (where I ordered the difusers) states that you can exceed the ideal airflow they list for each difuser, it will simply result in smaller air bubbles, which makes sense. I thought to attempt to avoid such a situation all together by stepping up to a larger difuser (1" diameter). But I decided against that cuz I was worried that if the difuser was 1" and the return tube / riser itself is only 1.5" in diameter, that such a large difuser may actually be detrimental due to occupying 2/3 of the diameter of the riser pipe.
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm just a perfectionist.
Thanks guys for all the advice. I appreciate it!
I'll be damned....
As the title states, I'll be damned. Came home tonight and somehow the thing is flowing like a champ again and is foaming up like it's goin outa style.
Here's the brewer in action
Sorry about the weird angle. Not sure why my camera did that, and I didn't catch it before I uploaded.
The return spouts and foam
The pump
Again, I apologize for the bad angle.
It's an Active Aqua pump purchased from the local hydro shop. The pump is distributed by Hydrofarm, and puts out 110lpm. I bought one this big A) to be on the safe side for a 5-gallon vortex brewer and B) so that I can get to work on my next project: an airlift 50 gal brewer.
Everything (with one exception) is consistent with Mr. Storch's setup. 1.5" sched 40 PVC fittings all around. I'm using 1.5"L x .75"W sweetwater medium bore defusers that are connected via 3/16" PE line, since 3/16" is the size of the nozzles on the rail. The exception is that Stephen used 1.5" sched40 DWV Ts at the bottom of his risers. I wanted the design more compact so I could fit it in a rubbermaid to catch any leaks. Therefore I replaced the Ts with 1.5" sched40 NON-DWV 90deg elbows. I went with non-DWV because the 90deg DWV elbows have a very small mating surface, and are very curved as opposed to being hard 90deg turns. The elbows are like a focal point of all the weight in this setup, and the DWV 90deg elbows are too flimsy, wouldn't support the system very well, and leaked.
Initially I had thought Mr. Storch used Ts at the bottom of the risers, as opposed to elbows, to create a wider base and add stability. I thought it was overkill. Now, thinking back on my first brew when I actually had Ts in there, I remember when I took it apart to clean it the compost was all bunched up inside the caps located past said Ts. I wonder if Storch used Ts instead of elbows specifically to avoid clogs in the elbows.
Admittedly I once tested the brewer using 2x3/16" lines dropped down each riser. It definitely increased the flow of water. However, I only have 6 difusers. The two return lines that just had open air line hanging in them had a very "jerky" kinda flow without the difusers. So I scratched the idea and only use 4 lines currently.
On my to do list is get a few more difusers so I can go back to 2 lines in each return tube. Also on the to do list is exactly as you recommend on your website; remove that brass fitting from the pump. Just been busy and haven't gotten around to replumbing the system yet.
Some chunks are very big. In this current batch of compost I used large quantities of shredded straw and shredded leaves. The leaves in turn brought a lotta small broken up twigs into the tumbler, since I can't waste the time to filter a pile of leaves 6' high and about 10' in diameter.
In its finished state this compost is actually more like a mulch. So before I fired up the tumbler last night I screened the compost through a 1/4" hardware cloth screen.
I only used a pinch (like... probably less than a tablespoon) but no I did not crush it. Unfortunately I missed that word of advice. Perhaps that's why it unclogged overnight, as the rock phosphate dissolved.
Precisely why I went with a 110lpm pump for only a 5 gallon brewer. I'm very wet behind the ears and full of stupid ideas with regards to organic gardening, but even I intuitively saw that 4 risers would require a lotta balls.
Should I just say fuck the rail that came with the pump alltogether, and cobble together my own rail? I'm thinking maybe junk the brass fitting, rough up the metal nozzle so I can get a larger hose over it, T the hose, then T twice for a total of four lines.
Assuming that will increase my air flow to each of the difusers, will the size of the difuser come into play at all? Aquaticeco's website (where I ordered the difusers) states that you can exceed the ideal airflow they list for each difuser, it will simply result in smaller air bubbles, which makes sense. I thought to attempt to avoid such a situation all together by stepping up to a larger difuser (1" diameter). But I decided against that cuz I was worried that if the difuser was 1" and the return tube / riser itself is only 1.5" in diameter, that such a large difuser may actually be detrimental due to occupying 2/3 of the diameter of the riser pipe.
Sorry for the wall of text. I'm just a perfectionist.
Thanks guys for all the advice. I appreciate it!
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For the best use of your air, as you suggested, eliminate the the brass fitting, go to a larger air tubing, make your own four way gang valve using hardware store valves (eg. PEX), switch out to Tees (optional if you want) and run your air into the base of each riser pipe (as in my sketch for a single riser) at right angles. If you are clever with fittings you'll figure out how to incorporate a diffuser inside the pipe at each air input.
Microbeman: If run mine with freely suspended material I often get a blockage at the T at the bottom of the bucket from fine materials, or a blockage in the bend of the top of the air lift from larger material catching and gathering fine material around it. As I'm away for ~14hrs at a time I come back to find a virtually anaerobic waste.
My solution definitely doesn't count as "some genius method", I run a piece of fencing wire across the top of the brewer (in the middle) and hang a mesh bag off that. It disturbs the vortex and reduces its depth, but the bag sits about 2inches down into the vortex and very close to entirely submerged. I likely get slightly less DO this way, but it's a helluva lot better than coming home from work to find its been blocked for 10+ hours.
My solution definitely doesn't count as "some genius method", I run a piece of fencing wire across the top of the brewer (in the middle) and hang a mesh bag off that. It disturbs the vortex and reduces its depth, but the bag sits about 2inches down into the vortex and very close to entirely submerged. I likely get slightly less DO this way, but it's a helluva lot better than coming home from work to find its been blocked for 10+ hours.
Bonsaii; That is probably the way I'd do it.
gardenlover
Member
So I have been researching and considering different kinds of tea brewer designs for my in house cannabis farm and my outdoor urban farm, and a home compost tea service. I started to build a type of vortex brewer that could be submerged in a 55 gallon container, then just pulled out and stuck into another 55 gallon drum for the next batch. The idea was to have the capability to bang out some tea with minimal work of cleaning and prep. I never did fully finish and test due not ordering the larger air stones, however it occurred to that my pond air diffuser (weighted EPDM membrane $100) and pond-master 100 liter air pump ($150), was putting out and incredible amount of gentle fine air bubbles. SO I tried using the same setup in a 55 gallon drum and it was freaking amazing how well it worked. On top of working excellent it is super easy to clean! all you have is the drum to scrub out and them the epdm diffuser and hose. I would like to know the difference in the final microbial count between a vortex and a simple High volume aeration composer much like growing solutions tea composer. I think the cleaning part of these brewers is overlooked. If they are not cleaned properly it can be a conducive environment to multiply harmful bacteria. I heard a hydro store say today they only clean their vortex every month?!?! granted they are running it 24-7 with new brews so there is less down time where the bad microbes multiply, but you can bet I am not gonna take a chance buying tea from them. I also think there is a big advantage to epdm diffusers. the flat surface is easy to clean and it will not allow tea to back-feed if the air pump is turned off. Air stones on the other hand will not, and they provide plenty of places for bad bacteria to hid.
I guess the reason I am posting is one to find out how much better if any, is a vortex brewer than a simple high volume bubble system?
I am also posting to get feedback on if there is such an advantage of having a vortex style brewer that it is worth it to clean all the extra hard to reach stuff.
I am one of those people who tend to overcomplicate my creations because its cool or I think its gonna have an advantage over the next nearest thing even if its only marginally better. So it has taken me all of 10 years of intensive gardening to understand simple is almost always better for me and my plants. It is taking even more time to train myself not to overcomplicate.te as i still do this.
I hope i do not offend anyone by this post, I just wanted to see what everyone else thought?
I guess the reason I am posting is one to find out how much better if any, is a vortex brewer than a simple high volume bubble system?
I am also posting to get feedback on if there is such an advantage of having a vortex style brewer that it is worth it to clean all the extra hard to reach stuff.
I am one of those people who tend to overcomplicate my creations because its cool or I think its gonna have an advantage over the next nearest thing even if its only marginally better. So it has taken me all of 10 years of intensive gardening to understand simple is almost always better for me and my plants. It is taking even more time to train myself not to overcomplicate.te as i still do this.
I hope i do not offend anyone by this post, I just wanted to see what everyone else thought?
Forgive me if this has already come up but as it is page 75 the back read could be lengthy...
I am wondering if a vortex 'shaker' design has been tried for compost teas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_mixer
These cause a funnel of air through the central column of water.
A motor with a vertical driveshaft, rubber mount slightly off centre for the container with what you wish to mix in it. In the lab we use 50 mL vials which are closed, or test tubes, which are tall so liquid does not spill out and more importantly for our purposes they're open ended allowing for gas exchange.
Here's another design that seems more of a closed system and might be a problem for air exchange. However, it's a lot bigger than a test tube, so the shake design vortex scales up this far...
http://nerdapproved.com/misc-gadgets/vortex-shaker-whips-up-a-cocktail-tornado/
To upscale from the milkshake maker size I think I would try incorporate:
Quiet motor that can run up to 48 hrs no problem.
Weighty rubber mounted base as a silencer and so the whole device doesn't go walkin off with the shakes.
Rubber bungy mounted container so it comes out easy for cleaning and again, the silence thing.
Biggest hurdle: The slightly offset rubber base on the driveshaft that you mount the container into. I'm not even a practise engineer. Any ideas how to do this easier and still get the vortex?
Container dimensions will need to be examined, candidate containers scrounged for amongst existing products...
I am wondering if a vortex 'shaker' design has been tried for compost teas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_mixer
These cause a funnel of air through the central column of water.
A motor with a vertical driveshaft, rubber mount slightly off centre for the container with what you wish to mix in it. In the lab we use 50 mL vials which are closed, or test tubes, which are tall so liquid does not spill out and more importantly for our purposes they're open ended allowing for gas exchange.
Here's another design that seems more of a closed system and might be a problem for air exchange. However, it's a lot bigger than a test tube, so the shake design vortex scales up this far...
http://nerdapproved.com/misc-gadgets/vortex-shaker-whips-up-a-cocktail-tornado/
To upscale from the milkshake maker size I think I would try incorporate:
Quiet motor that can run up to 48 hrs no problem.
Weighty rubber mounted base as a silencer and so the whole device doesn't go walkin off with the shakes.
Rubber bungy mounted container so it comes out easy for cleaning and again, the silence thing.
Biggest hurdle: The slightly offset rubber base on the driveshaft that you mount the container into. I'm not even a practise engineer. Any ideas how to do this easier and still get the vortex?
Container dimensions will need to be examined, candidate containers scrounged for amongst existing products...
This is the result of a large glossy con job pulled off by the manufacturers of the vortex brewer [if indeed that is what they are using]. They have convinced many hydro stores that they get superior results running perpetual brews, partially emptied through sales, then topped up. They have no science behind these assertions, just a bunch of dopey testimonials. Of course if one goes from not using any CT to using some, they will report good results but these will not be optimal unless the shop owners are checking each batch with a microscope. The biofilm build up is not the bad thing. What about the poor guy who purchases a gallon right after new ingredients are added? When new compost and feedstock or water is added to top up a running brew there is always a transition time, where the microbes go 'slack' or dormant for a period before they begin utilizing the new foods or until the O2 comes back up.
Furthermore to show how scientifically confused the manufacturers of these brewers are;
Here is their advertising blurb they send out in a colorful email;
They are telling everyone that perpetual brews in their brewers are superior then on their website they state the following;
It is moneyass stuff like this which could give ACT a bad name.
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To add to the above post, 1000% profit!!!! What kind of ethics are those?? And encouraged by our nice touchy feely mystical earthy guru guy.
Can you tell it upsets me?
Can you tell it upsets me?
